Kalinin?

[Spudz]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting sick of Kalinin's turnovers. Last night he turned it over resulting in a goal.

 

It seems like his stick handling is awful. He's in the right position like pinching the blue line to keep it in, but I've seen at least 3-4 times it jumps right over his stick.

 

He's one I wouldn't mind trading for another defenseman. Maybe a little on the tougher side.

[LabattBlue]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting sick of Kalinin's turnovers. Last night he turned it over resulting in a goal.

 

It seems like his stick handling is awful. He's in the right position like pinching the blue line to keep it in, but I've seen at least 3-4 times it jumps right over his stick.

 

He's one I wouldn't mind trading for another defenseman. Maybe a little on the tougher side.

Overall, I think his play has been better than last year. He is still prone to making the mistakes that really stand out, but I think he has reduced the frequency of them. I know they feel that Kalinin has all the skills and size to be a top pairing defenseman, but I'm not sure if he is ever going to reach that plateau.

[PASabreFan]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting sick of Kalinin's turnovers. Last night he turned it over resulting in a goal.

 

It seems like his stick handling is awful. He's in the right position like pinching the blue line to keep it in, but I've seen at least 3-4 times it jumps right over his stick.

 

He's one I wouldn't mind trading for another defenseman. Maybe a little on the tougher side.

 

 

I don't see how Kalinin can be singled out on the Buffalo defense for turnovers. He has had plenty of company. Official stats, which can be junk, show Campbell, Spacek and Numminen ahead of him in giveaways, and Lydman not far behind. It's a virus that has spread through the defense corps.

[Bmwolf21]

You're right, the stats for that is as bad as SOG or scoring chances - sometimes it is too subjective, last night's Kalinin turnover excepted. I have to wonder what their definition is of a turnover, and how much this team's attacking, long-breakout-pass-from-the-defensemen style of play contributes to that stat.

 

IMO, Dmitri is being singled out for his Marty Biron-level giveaways like last night - he has a penchant for bad turnovers happening at the worst time possible, and it seems that more often than not, his giveaways end up as big scoring chances for the other team. He also, especially in recent games, seems to have forgotten how to keep the puck in at the point.

 

Spacek seemed to have more than the lion's share of turnovers earlier in the season but seems to have settled in; Campbell has made some here and there, and Numminen & Lydman have made more than their share of bad plays with the puck. Some nights Teppo does look old and slow out there, which is why I am hoping Tallinder comes back and Teppo gets a couple nights off...

[X. Benedict]

Kalinin seems to be the whipping boy de jour.

 

He had a bad game last night. It was a clunker. He sucked.

 

But I also think he has had a pretty good month overall. Buffalo's up ice

passing game probably comes the least naturally to him of all the

Buffalo defensemen - but I would say Jay McKee had less success with

the up-ice pass for most of last year trying to pass out from too deep in the

zone.

 

All things in perspective.

[Bmwolf21]

Kalinin seems to be the whipping boy de jour.

 

He had a bad game last night. It was a clunker. He sucked.

 

But I also think he has had a pretty good month overall. Buffalo's up ice

passing game probably comes the least naturally to him of all the

Buffalo defensemen - but I would say Jay McKee had less success with

the up-ice pass for most of last year trying to pass out from too deep in the

zone.

 

All things in perspective.

I don't think it's a whipping boy du jour thing with him at all. I think we have been waiting for him to settle in as a top-4 defenseman for some time now, and every time it seems he has turned the corner and is cementing his spot on the team and in the league, he goes into a funk and makes some rookie-type mistakes that make you want to pull your hair out. I think people's patience with him is running out, and I am starting to wonder if his inconsistency isn't due to is mental game and focus.

 

On a side note, why do you think the up-ice passing system is unnatural for him? I think it seems to fit him pretty well - he not a bruiser back there, and he has some pretty good puck-handling skills, a pretty good shot, and is OK when he jumps up in the rush.

[X. Benedict]

 

On a side note, why do you think the up-ice passing system is unnatural for him? I think it seems to fit him pretty well - he not a bruiser back there, and he has some pretty good puck-handling skills, a pretty good shot, and is OK when he jumps up in the rush.

 

Mostly I think it is timing and vision - like the white kid that isn't the best dancer but knows the moves. Kalinin can skate and stickhandle pretty well. You can usually see the pass he is trying to make but he often fails to anticipate that the (other team's) forwards can see it too and for some reason he can't make that pass out of the zone as well as the others.

 

If he played in Carolina - or even Detriot - where they rarely ask their defense to make the up-ice pass but to just

dump it into the neutral zone, he would be fine. And I think as good as Gleason or Commadore.

 

McKee was a very good defenseman, but had the same trouble with the up ice pass as Kalinin does. Clearing the defensive zone by dumping it is a much easier than passing it out up ice,

the Buffalo system is a much higher inference system and can at times make good defensemen look bad. Fitzpatrick and Janik come to mind. They are fine with a clearing the zone kind of role,

and can log top 4 minutes for lesser teams with a less active defense.

 

Watch Vancouver tomorrow and Rory. He'll do a nice job in their system and at times you'll scratch your head and wonder why we could have underestimated him. (of course he could suck up the joint too :D )

[nfreeman]

I think Kalinin has had a pretty good year. There's a danger in focusing on, and coming to a conclusion based on, a couple of misplays during a game that can give a misleading picture of someone's overall performance. He had a couple of bonehead moments last night -- ie the awful giveaway and the delay penalty (although it looked like the puck bounced funny just before it landed on his stick) -- but I thought he bounced back and had a solid rest of the game. Lindy did play him for 20 min.

 

XB -- I must say I've always thought of Dmitri as pretty skilled and well within the Sabres' mold in terms of offensive skills for defensemen. However, I will start watching his outlet passes and report back.

[Bmwolf21]

You're right, there is that danger of focusing in on a couple misplays here and there, but there's an equal danger at overlooking critical mistakes at crucial points in the game.

 

I guess I am just looking for more consistency out of a guy who is in his 7th NHL season, and who should be an unquestioned top-4 defenseman. Instead, we have to pair him with Teppo to calm him, and we lament the struggles of the PK while Tallinder is out, but who is getting the bulk of the PK time in his absence? Dmitri and Teppo. I think that clearly Dmitri has the skills to be a solid penalty killer, but the unit continues to struggle.

[nfreeman]

You're right, there is that danger of focusing in on a couple misplays here and there, but there's an equal danger at overlooking critical mistakes at crucial points in the game.

 

I guess I am just looking for more consistency out of a guy who is in his 7th NHL season, and who should be an unquestioned top-4 defenseman. Instead, we have to pair him with Teppo to calm him, and we lament the struggles of the PK while Tallinder is out, but who is getting the bulk of the PK time in his absence? Dmitri and Teppo. I think that clearly Dmitri has the skills to be a solid penalty killer, but the unit continues to struggle.

 

Can you list some of these? Certainly the giveaway last night that resulted in a goal was a big mistake, but it was the 1st goal of the game, less than 2 min. into the 1st period -- not what I'd call a crucial point in the game.

 

As for the PK -- it seems reasonable to me that Lindy gives this time to the defensemen that he thinks are most capable, which last night were Teppo and Dmitri (although Spacek and Lydman got almost as much time on the PK as Dmitri). Certainly the PK is much better with Henrik in there. I don't think anyone would dispute this. But with him out, we have to make do with what we have, and Lindy (who knows better than we do) trusts Teppo and Dmitri at least as much as any of the other defensemen. That is meaningful to me.

 

Is Dmitri a legit top 4 defenseman? I think he is a top 4 defenseman on at least 27 teams in the NHL. For that matter I think he's top 4 on the Sabres, although really I think we have a #1 (Tallinder), a #2 (Campbell), a #7 (Paetsch), and 4 others who are all about equal (Teppo, Dmitri, Toni and Spacek), all of whom are legit top 4 NHL defensemen.

 

If anything, I think Spacek has dropped a little in the rotation -- he doesn't seem quite as reliable in the defensive zone as he was previously, and he has been paired with Paetsch on the #3 unit since Tallinder went out again. (I was wondering last night whether I'd rather have McKee back than Spacek -- still not sure. If the contracts were equal and if we knew McKee would stay healthy, I probably would rather have McKee, but those are 2 huge ifs).

[rickshaw]

Huge ifs? McKee never gets hurt, does he? :rolleyes:

[Bmwolf21]

Can you list some of these? Certainly the giveaway last night that resulted in a goal was a big mistake, but it was the 1st goal of the game, less than 2 min. into the 1st period -- not what I'd call a crucial point in the game.

Hang on while I get out my notebook of "bad giveaways by Kalinin." <_<

I think there are a lot of times in his career where he has made a boneheaded pass, giveaway, whatever, but I can't recall them off the top of my head - especially not in my painkiller-enhanced state. Sure, they were more prevalent last year, as his play was as inconsistent as anyone's - we even debated over whether the team decided to only two years on his latest contract, perhaps to make him easier to move if he can't shake his inconsistency.

 

Maybe I am just getting little impatient with a guy who has been in the pros for the better part of 6 years. Really, I don't obsess over this, it just seems to me that of our 7 defensemen, he is the most inconsistent, and that frustrates me to no end, because he has the tools to be a very good defenseman night in and night out.

 

With Tallinder out, Dmitri, Teppo and Lydman get the bulk of the PK time, and I'd like to see Dmitri take control of the PK unit in Henrik's absence. I know there are other factors that contribute to the team's 19th-ranked PK - the forwards, styles of play, whatever - but I would really like to see him step up and be the steadying force back there that all good defensemen are. Let's face it, he has a ton of talent - good skater, good puckhandler, generally makes good decisions, but for some reason never seems to put it all together. Is it mental? I don't know. Maybe.

 

Again, if you haven't caught the key to my disappointment in Kalinin's play, it can be summed up in one word - consistency. I don't want to see him misplay pucks at the line, make bad passes in the offensive zone, take bad penalties - those aren't the things that a top-4 "D" does with regularity. I expect those from Paetsch, Card, Funk - not a 6-year pro like Dmitri.

[LabattBlue]

Hang on while I get out my notebook of "bad giveaways by Kalinin." <_<

:lol: :lol:

[Peace Frog]

Dmitri's mistakes seem to stand out more than the other defensemen, for some reason. I've seen plenty of bonehead turnovers from Campbell, Numminen, and Lydman.

 

But if it makes anyone feel any better, the King of Bonehead Turnovers had to have been Grant Ledyard.

[Doohickie]

Dmitri's mistakes seem to stand out more than the other defensemen, for some reason.

The reasons are these (my subjective observation):

 

1. He seems to make his turnovers at very inopportune times that often result in quality scoring chances for the other team.

 

2. He seems to make his scoring chances when he is the last line of defense (besides the goalie).

 

3. He does not recover well after having made the mistake. Lydman, in contrast, may give up the puck, but it seems like he realizes the puck is bouncing and he may lose it, so he's already moving back to cover the guy who's pressuring him. Kalinin, on the other hand, frequently ends up flat-footed (or even falls down diving for the puck... remember that 3-on-1 that turned into a 3-man breakaway sometime back?)

 

In short, when he's handling the puck, it seems like he has a sort of tunnel vision; he assumes he will successfully move it past the forechecker, and on the occasions when he doesn't, he recovers poorly.

 

 

 

...and he can't be *your* whipping boy because he's already mine. I've been on his case since at least November.

[bob_sauve28]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting sick of Kalinin's turnovers. Last night he turned it over resulting in a goal.

 

It seems like his stick handling is awful. He's in the right position like pinching the blue line to keep it in, but I've seen at least 3-4 times it jumps right over his stick.

 

He's one I wouldn't mind trading for another defenseman. Maybe a little on the tougher side.

We are VERY lucky to have Kalinin. He is a good defenseman who makes mistakes just like every other defenseman in the league. Most nights he's steady, smart with the puck and makes few mistakes. Any team would be happy to have a rising young player on their team who is developing into a solid d-man.

[deluca67]

Kalinin seems to be the whipping boy de jour.

 

He had a bad game last night. It was a clunker. He sucked.

 

But I also think he has had a pretty good month overall. Buffalo's up ice

passing game probably comes the least naturally to him of all the

Buffalo defensemen - but I would say Jay McKee had less success with

the up-ice pass for most of last year trying to pass out from too deep in the

zone.

 

All things in perspective.

 

It's a long and impressive list of whipping boys.

 

Bill Hajt

Phil Housley

Doug Bodger

Richard Smhelik

Alexi Zhitnik

Dimitri Kalinin

 

Who's next when Kalinin is gone? Campbell? Paetsch? Stay tuned.

[Doohickie]

We are VERY lucky to have Kalinin. He is a good defenseman who makes mistakes just like every other defenseman in the league. Most nights he's steady, smart with the puck and makes few mistakes. Any team would be happy to have a rising young player on their team who is developing into a solid d-man.

I just threw up in my mouth a little :sick:

[BuffalOhio]

His flub of the puck along the boards directly led to a giveaway after which Mair had to take a hooking penalty. That penalty resulted in a goal. Nice going Dmitri.

[X. Benedict]

His flub of the puck along the boards directly led to a giveaway after which Mair had to take a hooking penalty. That penalty resulted in a goal. Nice going Dmitri.

 

I thought he played a pretty good game. And very well shorthanded in overtime,

2 very good shots and an assist. Nice going Dmitri. :D

 

Nothing nearly as bad as Campbell's pinch for Bulis breakaway, or even Spacek's flubbadub.

[BuffalOhio]

I thought he played a pretty good game. And very well shorthanded in overtime,

2 very good shots and an assist. Nice going Dmitri. :D

 

Nothing nearly as bad as Campbell's pinch for Bulis breakaway, or even Spacek's flubbadub.

 

I think Lydman is to blame for that breakaway.

 

Watching the end-view camera, he dumped the puck in and chased after it along with two other guys. Campbell was on the exit side of the dump in. It was his job to try to keep it in.

 

Yes, Spacek's flub was absolutely brutal!

[Doohickie]

Yes, Spacek's flub was absolutely brutal!

And yet, he had the presence of mind to recover enough to disrupt a close-in break for the Canucks. Dmitri would have just stood there and watch them put the puck in the net. It was a terrible flub by Spacek but a great recovery, even if it resulted in a penalty.

[Bmwolf21]

It's nice to know that the coaching staff and GM are seeing the same thing that many of us have been harping on - that Dmitri, while as talented as any of the Sabres' defensemen, has been maddeningly inconsistent at best, and has actually regressed offensively over the last few years, despite the NHL "opening up" the offensive game:

LINK

"I think he's been hot and cold," Sabres coach Lindy Ruff said. "I think he's had real good stretches where he's played well. I think his recent games he's been into mishandling pucks and careless giveaways."

And

"As a coach you look in a lot of directions," Ruff said of dealing with Kalinin's ups and downs. "Some of it maybe is off-ice preparation. There's a lot that goes into that. There's the mental. There's the hour and a half before the game, getting ready to play. Sometimes that little lack of focus leads to, in Dmitri's case, a slow start in games.

 

"Maybe that's the area that needs the most improvement and it isn't to do with anything physical as it is to be ready mentally."

With the trade deadline looming (and assuming the Sabres are indeed looking to bolster the "D" before the trade deadline as the article suggests) the Sabres need to decide if Kalinin's overall play is worth putting up with one or two turnovers per game; and if he is the same defenseman from 2003-04 (10G, 24A) and last year's playoffs, or if he is the one that is streaky, looking shaky & inconsistent some nights and being great other nights. If not, I have no problem with them moving him for either a gritty, tough, defensive defenseman or a PP specialist/QB.