Which Sabres are untouchable?

[Bmwolf21]

Assuming that we don't get Timmy back for the playoffs, and with Free Agency looming in the distance for Drury, Danny, Teppo, Mair & Marty, how do you categorize the roster? I am going with four categories - Untouchable; Has to be a Great Deal; I'd Consider It; and Have the Movers on SpeedDial. For purposes of this year's roster, I only included the "regulars" - not guys like Paille, Stafford, etc.

 

Untouchable

Miller - No comments necessary.

Max - I debated on Untouchable vs. "Great Deal" but I think we are finally seeing him blossom, and I don't want another team to reap the rewards of our patience.

Vanek - We're watching him develop into a star, and he needs to be locked up longterm.

Drury - Should be in the next category, given his UFA status, but I think we are more likely to retain him than Danny.

Hecht - Sabres are a different team without him in the lineup.

Campbell & Tallinder - Easily the top-2 individual defensemen on the team.

Teppo - Put him here simply because he isn't going anywhere unless we free fall out of the playoffs, and he is a great positive influence to the younger defensemen.

Has to be a Great Deal

Briere - The likelihood of him commanding a huge salary next year scares me - I think if we keep him it might cost us a couple young guys.

Pominville - Great young scorer, still somewhat streaky.

Lydman - Good puck mover, sometimes wildly inconsistent with Tallinder out.

Gaustad - Scrapper, grit, scores some goals - one of those gritty guys playoff teams need.

Paetsch - developing into a pretty good defenseman.

Spacek - Solid two-way defenseman; good top-4 guy with playoff experience.

I'd Consider It:

Roy - Too inconsistent for my taste, tired of the diving, but I would love to see more from him, given his offensive skills.

Mair - Love his hustle, energy & grit, but not untradeable.

Marty - Wanted to move him down one, but I don't want to give him away just to get something before he becomes a UFA. Also want to make sure we have a competent backup in case Ryan goes down.

Novotny - Shows he can play in the NHL, now needs to be more consistent and use his size more.

Keep the Movers on Speed Dial

Kotalik - Big shot, good size, but disappears for stretches; still should have a lot of trade value.

Kalinin - Has nights where he is our best defenseman and others when he's the worst. I'm just tired of waiting, and if he can get us a true PP quarterback, great.

Peters - Just for the anti-Peters crowd. Still plays a role, albeit a small one, but no one is going to trade for him anyway.

 

 

There are a lot of guys who are between categories, but I think that's what will make the discussion so interesting. Also, this isn't an attempt to restart the Danny vs. Drury debate - I would love to see the Sabres keep them both but I think Danny is likely going to end up around $6M per, and that might cost us two players under the cap.

[LabattBlue]

I assume you are asking who would I move before the trade deadline? If this is true, and the Sabres continue to play at the level of the 1st quarter, the only players I'd move are...

 

 

Kotalik...combined with Biron for prospects and or a veteran grinder, blueliner or cheap backup goalie.

Biron...see above

Peters...no value at playoff time. If you can throw him in as part of a deal, do it.

Mair...maybe a draft pick?

Novotny...???

 

Obviously, I wouldn't move all 5 of them, but I'd consider moving 3. That's it. I wouldn't touch the rest of the roster.

[Doohickie]

No comments....:

 

Miller

Drury

Briere

Afenigenov

Vanek

DuMont

Grier

... :nana:

[Bmwolf21]

I am looking at it more like this:

You are Darcy Regier, and you're getting trade inquiries from other GMs - who do you consider untouchable; who would you listen to offers for; which are the guys who you'd only trade if the other team blew you away with their offer; and who do you have on your short list of guys you'd trade 6 days a week and twice on Sunday.

[Mr.Christopher]

Only people I would trade would be Novotny, Kotalik, and Kalinin. I would trade Peters but nobody would want him. I would consider moving Marty.

[Kristian]

I'd be looking to move Kotalik and Marty.

 

Kotalik because he can still bring back something valuable just because of his onetimer.

 

Marty because you can get a backup who allows softies almost every game, and can't come out of his net to play the puck with no playoff experience for way less than 2 mill. a year.

[Chilly]

I'm a believer that there are very few players who are truly untouchable. Players which are almost untouchable are:

 

- Miller (contract and difficulty trading goalies)

- Vanek (Sabres have his rights for a long time)

- Tallinder (Ditto, contractual reasons not to move him)

- Drury/Briere (due to their captain status and leaders of the team)

 

I would not think that any other players are nearly untouchable. I think that there are some general rules for trades on a team such as this one:

 

1.) The most important thing is to make sure that the changes which are made are relatively few. The chemistry on this team must not be damaged, and the best way to ensure this is by limiting the number of moves made.

 

2.) Generally, only tweaks of certain lines should be done, like replacing Kotalik with a player who fits this role a bit better. Perhaps getting a bit better defensive forward to play on the team. The exception to the small tweak rule would be if there was a trade which gave up Max but got someone even better in return (hard to fathom, I know).

 

3.) The future must not be mortgaged to upgrade the team now, no matter how tempting it is to improve cup chances. It is important to remember that you need luck, not just the best team, in order to win the Stanley Cup.

[wjag]

Clearly I would like to keep as much of the team intact as possible. The new era of the Salary Cap is going to force teams to make tough choices. If you had to cut to the bone, then I would by building up the middle. Then using these core guys, plug in from FA and the AHL where possible.

 

 

Untouchables:

Miller, Cambell, Tallinder, Drury, Briere

 

Hate to see them go, but if the price is right:

Vanek, Max, Pommer, Hecht, Roy, Biron, Novo

 

Get what you can for them:

Numminen, Kalinin, Lydman, Spacek, Paetsch, Gaustad, Kotalik

 

Thanks for your service:

Mair, Peters

[phSabres84]

If the deal is right, and it moves the team in a positive way, no one should be "untouchable." Having said that, granted there are some that may require a boatload of risk/benefit analysis, but in the end it is all about winning the cup, and to that end, if it works to our betterment do the trade.

[wudden]

Vanek - We're watching him develop into a star, and he needs to be locked up longterm.

 

He better be here for a while, my Home Vanek Jersey just came in today!!

 

Roy - Too inconsistent for my taste, tired of the diving, but I would love to see more from him, given his offensive skills.

 

Anyone agree with me that I don't think Roy has really dove at all this year? I'm pretty certain he did at least a half dozen times last season, but I think he's learned his lesson there. He's a small guy, he gets knocked down.

[ko12010]

Clearly I would like to keep as much of the team intact as possible. The new era of the Salary Cap is going to force teams to make tough choices. If you had to cut to the bone, then I would by building up the middle. Then using these core guys, plug in from FA and the AHL where possible.

Untouchables:

Miller, Cambell, Tallinder, Drury, Briere

 

Hate to see them go, but if the price is right:

Vanek, Max, Pommer, Hecht, Roy, Biron, Novo

 

Get what you can for them:

Numminen, Kalinin, Lydman, Spacek, Paetsch, Gaustad, Kotalik

 

Thanks for your service:

Mair, Peters

 

 

 

How could you possibly even consider trading Vanek and Max, and even Pom? Vanek is what, 22 and max is in his twenties and Pom is early twenties as well. These guys ARE the building blocks of this team. You don't trade guys like this for young talent and prospects because these guys are young talent. Don't forget hockey players can last much longer than players in basically all other contact sports. Briere and Drury are also very young, Briere in his twenties and Drury 30. These guys are just hitting their prime.

 

The only two guys that need to be thought about by regier are Kotalik and Biron. For the people who question this team's grit and toughness why would you get rid of Mair. He's a young tough guy who is a good fourth liner right now.

 

I just think the best deals this year would be Biron and Kotalik for draft choices to free up cap and roster space to keep the team intact for next year. Maybe like some people mentioned we could bring in a more defensive minded forward or a veteran on Defense.

[Done]

1)Make a decision if you can afford both Drury and Briere. If one has to go...I'd trade Drury at the deadline since teams covet guys like him for the playoffs.

 

2)We have too many of the same skilled D-men. I would try to trade Campbell when his value is high. We have 4 young guys that can step in next year for Teppo and Campbell. If not Campbell, then Lydman should go. We need more size back there.

 

3)You don't touch Max or Vanek. These are the two along with Danny Briere who will sell tickets for Golisano the next 5 years. This city is in love right now, but I think we're playing over our heads.

 

4)Don't trade guys like Kalinin, Kotalik, Mair because now is not the time to move them. All 3 of those guys are playoff performers. Some guys get hot and bothered for stats and pretty plays, and some know when to show up. Kalinin is a #1 pairing in this league and I would rather have him than Campbell or Tallinder long term.

 

5)Guys I can do without.....Pominville for sure, Novotny, Roy, Peters, Lydman.

 

6)Guys who serve a great purpose)Hecht, Biron, Gaustad

 

 

There is a team over in the west named Calgary who has a Stanley Cup team if they can just add 2 or 3 skilled forewards. They have the best Defense in the league in my opinion. Darcy has dealt with them before, and I think now is the time to do it again. I would love to land Regehr...or bring back Warrener....but I really think we could make a push for Phaneuf. You dangle Drury with a guy like Roy and give them Campbell while he is hot, and you can land a cornerstone.

[Bmwolf21]

Anyone agree with me that I don't think Roy has really dove at all this year? I'm pretty certain he did at least a half dozen times last season, but I think he's learned his lesson there. He's a small guy, he gets knocked down.

I've seen him get away with a couple and get called for one or two, but IMO the damage is already done to his reputation. I think he is one of those guys that is always going to be watched closely for embellishing the penalty.

 

1)Make a decision if you can afford both Drury and Briere. If one has to go...I'd trade Drury at the deadline since teams covet guys like him for the playoffs.

 

2)We have too many of the same skilled D-men. I would try to trade Campbell when his value is high. We have 4 young guys that can step in next year for Teppo and Campbell. If not Campbell, then Lydman should go. We need more size back there.

 

3)You don't touch Max or Vanek. These are the two along with Danny Briere who will sell tickets for Golisano the next 5 years. This city is in love right now, but I think we're playing over our heads.

 

4)Don't trade guys like Kalinin, Kotalik, Mair because now is not the time to move them. All 3 of those guys are playoff performers. Some guys get hot and bothered for stats and pretty plays, and some know when to show up. Kalinin is a #1 pairing in this league and I would rather have him than Campbell or Tallinder long term.

5)Guys I can do without.....Pominville for sure, Novotny, Roy, Peters, Lydman.

 

6)Guys who serve a great purpose)Hecht, Biron, Gaustad

There is a team over in the west named Calgary who has a Stanley Cup team if they can just add 2 or 3 skilled forewards. They have the best Defense in the league in my opinion. Darcy has dealt with them before, and I think now is the time to do it again. I would love to land Regehr...or bring back Warrener....but I really think we could make a push for Phaneuf. You dangle Drury with a guy like Roy and give them Campbell while he is hot, and you can land a cornerstone.

Aaah, so now we get into it. I figured there would be people I would disagree with, but I never figured I'd be debating so many players in one post. Here goes:

1. I think re-signing Drury is going to be considerably cheaper than Briere, so IMO, if it comes down to keeping Briere at $5.5 - 6M+ and losing a core player or two, then I say keep Drury at $4.5M and keep the rest of the core intact. Besides, if we are serious about making a deep playoff run, then you don't trade off your ONLY Stanley Cup winner, a player who has 12 career playoff GWG's, 4 of which are OT winners

 

2. Lydman I can see, since he drives me nuts with his penchant for bad passes & turnovers (just like Kalinin) but Campbell? Campbell is our best defenseman right now, and when Tallinder comes back he'll be no. 1b. Those two are already the Sabres' defensive cornerstones.

 

3. No argument here about Vanek & Max - but again, it's cost/benefits with Briere.

 

4. I wouldn't exactly call them playoff performers - Mair played 3 playoff games last year; Kalinin played 8. Kotalik was the only one of those three to contribute a lot to the playoff run (4-7-11 in 18 games) but he is the most likely to be traded right now. He has 7 pts in his last 10 G but hasn't scored in almost a month (Nov 17 vs. Pitt) and lately has been a non-factor more often than not.

 

5. One name sticks out here - Pominville? I can see the others, but Pommer? The 24-year-old 2nd-year player who is on pace to shatter his rookie scoring totals? He is another one of the cornerstone players, IMO.

 

As for the Phaneuf trade - I would love to see him in a Buffalo uniform, but not at that cost. No way I would give Calgary one of our top forwards, top defenseman and another young skilled forward to boot to get him. You mentioned not trading Mair, Kotalik and Kalinin because they are playoff performers - what about Drury (9-9-18), Roy (5-10-15) and Campbell (0-6-6; avg. over 23 minutes per playoff game)? They played a much bigger part in the Sabres run last year that the three you mentioned.

[JujuFish]

If Timmy C magically became healthy, he'd definitely be on my list.

[LabattBlue]

 

Hate to see them go, but if the price is right:

Vanek, Max, Pommer, Hecht, Roy, Biron, Novo

 

Get what you can for them:

Numminen, Kalinin, Lydman, Spacek, Paetsch, Gaustad, Kotalik

 

Thanks for your service:

Mair, Peters

I question why you are putting 5 of our top 7 blueliners in the "Get what you can for them" category? :blink: Who is going to play defense after you let all these players go? I'm also somewhat surprised that you have Vanek & Max in the "Hate to see them go, but if the price is right" category. I'd say they are both very close to "untouchable".

[Two or less]

 

Untouchable

Miller - No comments necessary.

Max - I debated on Untouchable vs. "Great Deal" but I think we are finally seeing him blossom, and I don't want another team to reap the rewards of our patience.

Vanek - We're watching him develop into a star, and he needs to be locked up longterm.

Drury - Should be in the next category, given his UFA status, but I think we are more likely to retain him than Danny.

Hecht - Sabres are a different team without him in the lineup.

Campbell & Tallinder - Easily the top-2 individual defensemen on the team.

Teppo - Put him here simply because he isn't going anywhere unless we free fall out of the playoffs, and he is a great positive influence to the younger defensemen.

 

Only player i would add to your list of untouchables is Derek Roy. He isn't the greatest player in the world, but I can't remember the last bad big game he has had. The kid is clutch. He has so much passion and pride for his team. You can't teach heart and Derek Roy is all heart and soul. These type of players don't come around often, and we got very lucky with Briere, Drury and Roy, all great leaders and guys that lead by example. I'd never deal Roy.

 

Lydman is as close to untouchable with Spacek as well i think.

 

But besides that i agree.

[nfreeman]

Boys, I hate to break it to you, but Darcy isn't making any trades this year unless we get hit with a freakish rash of injuries. Not gonna happen. This is the lineup (hopefully plus Connolly) that we're going after the cup with.

 

Now, IF 2 or more of our defensemen suffer season-ending injuries, I could see Kotalik and/or Novotny getting dealt for a capable #5 or #6 defenseman. But even that is highly speculative. There is ZERO chance of any of our top 7 defensemen or any of the other forwards getting dealt.

 

Just my opinion.

[BetweenThePipes00]

1)Make a decision if you can afford both Drury and Briere. If one has to go...I'd trade Drury at the deadline since teams covet guys like him for the playoffs.

 

There is a team over in the west named Calgary who has a Stanley Cup team if they can just add 2 or 3 skilled forewards. They have the best Defense in the league in my opinion. Darcy has dealt with them before, and I think now is the time to do it again. I would love to land Regehr...or bring back Warrener....but I really think we could make a push for Phaneuf. You dangle Drury with a guy like Roy and give them Campbell while he is hot, and you can land a cornerstone.

 

Dwight, sorry man, but none of this makes any sense ... teams covet guys like Drury because he wins ... um, isn't that what the Sabres are trying to do? If he is such a great playoff guy, why the hell would they trade him when they are trying to make a Cup run? Even if we assume that Phaneuf is available (which he is not, no way is Calgary dealing Phaneuf) AND that he fills Campbell's spot, who fills the two ENORMOUS holes at center left by Drury and Roy? Even if Connolly comes back (a huge IF), there is still a hole there, especially when it comes to faceoffs ... again, something Drury brings to the table that is huge in the playoffs. Phaneuf is good, but he's not so much better than Campbell that they can afford to blow up the forward lines like that.

 

Like Freeman said, it's all a moot point, they are not making any big deals that change the look of this team. They might tweak it slightly, but for the most part they are what they are, and we're riding them as far as we can.

[Two or less]

1)Make a decision if you can afford both Drury and Briere. If one has to go...I'd trade Drury at the deadline since teams covet guys like him for the playoffs.

 

2)We have too many of the same skilled D-men. I would try to trade Campbell when his value is high. We have 4 young guys that can step in next year for Teppo and Campbell. If not Campbell, then Lydman should go. We need more size back there.

 

3)You don't touch Max or Vanek. These are the two along with Danny Briere who will sell tickets for Golisano the next 5 years. This city is in love right now, but I think we're playing over our heads.

 

4)Don't trade guys like Kalinin, Kotalik, Mair because now is not the time to move them. All 3 of those guys are playoff performers. Some guys get hot and bothered for stats and pretty plays, and some know when to show up. Kalinin is a #1 pairing in this league and I would rather have him than Campbell or Tallinder long term.

 

5)Guys I can do without.....Pominville for sure, Novotny, Roy, Peters, Lydman.

 

6)Guys who serve a great purpose)Hecht, Biron, Gaustad

There is a team over in the west named Calgary who has a Stanley Cup team if they can just add 2 or 3 skilled forewards. They have the best Defense in the league in my opinion. Darcy has dealt with them before, and I think now is the time to do it again. I would love to land Regehr...or bring back Warrener....but I really think we could make a push for Phaneuf. You dangle Drury with a guy like Roy and give them Campbell while he is hot, and you can land a cornerstone.

 

I don't know how much alchol influenced your post, but, i like this forum alot, but seriously that is maybe the dumbest post i've read all year.

 

Scratch that. I don't even think i read anything dumber then that even when we were on the verge of bankrupcy. I'm all about sharing opinions, but someone with that kind of post should get banned for a few days just to re-think wtf he just said and allow the rest of us who read the post to get our IQ levels back where they were before we read the post.

 

Sorry dude, but pass the bong my way.....

[BuffalOhio]

I don't know how much alchol influenced your post, but, i like this forum alot, but seriously that is maybe the dumbest post i've read all year.

 

Scratch that. I don't even think i read anything dumber then that even when we were on the verge of bankrupcy. I'm all about sharing opinions, but someone with that kind of post should get banned for a few days just to re-think wtf he just said and allow the rest of us who read the post to get our IQ levels back where they were before we read the post.

 

Sorry dude, but pass the bong my way.....

 

 

Agreed. Horrible post, Dwight.

[Done]

Agreed. Horrible post, Dwight.

 

That's fine to say.....but if you are looking to trade with someone other than making a Bob Corkum depth move, you do one of two things.....you either give up big talent to go after a guy who is once in a generation type talent like a Pronger or possibly a Phaneuf.....or you go after someone who has underachieved, not overachieved. That's my theory.

 

Many people look at Campbell as our top D-man.

 

I look at Campbell as a finesse guy who will possibly wear down by playoff time, and has put together 1 season of good hockey from last year at this time to now.

 

Many people look at Tallinder as our top D-man

 

I look at him as a solid guy who has shown to be injury prone when having to step up his physical play. Also, Tallinder should really have his character questioned as he was involved in an incident which was pretty much passed over in the local media, but to me has all the bellringings of a crappy human being.

 

Many people look at Drury as a lockerroom leader and a winner

 

I look at him as a key part, but so does the rest of the NHL. Teams will overpay both in salary and trade value for a guy like him. Look, he was traded twice already and had the same rep. I would rather use him in a trade if it means he or Danny will walk next year.

 

Many people look at Kotalik and Kalinin as trade bait

 

I look at them as smart, veteran guys who still have upside...and would make a great one two punch on a young talented team. Kalinin has the most vision and best all around play on our defense when he is on. Kotalik is a wierd cat, but he knows when to turn it on. He is a power foreward on a team that is undersized. If we give these two guys away I will almost guarantee that we get demolished by a team like Ottawa or Atlanta in the playoffs if we don't get size in return.

 

This team is good, and for the most part I hope they don't make any big moves....but too many people are overreacting to some exciting regular season play. We didn't make it to the Cup last year.....we had injuries......but those are part of the game. Washington set the blueprint of how to beat us. Play hard at 100% for the whole game, but most importantly play physical. We were on the run that entire game.....but that was playoff hockey and we folded. It was only one game, but it was an eye opener.