Roster Talent

[Crusader1969]

If you ranked every team by talent, including the top 3 or 4 from Rochester 

where would the Sabres Rank?  

They are missing a top end guy like MacKinnon or Eichel and they don't have a goalie you would rank in the top 25 BUT I have to think they are still a top half or the league team 

NOW those are two huge pieces (goalie and an elite forward) but I still, crazily, believe that a real GM can get things turned around pretty fast

am I alone in thinking they have a top 16 roster? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Crusader1969 said:

If you ranked every team by talent, including the top 3 or 4 from Rochester 

where would the Sabres Rank?  

They are missing a top end guy like MacKinnon or Eichel and they don't have a goalie you would rank in the top 25 BUT I have to think they are still a top half or the league team 

NOW those are two huge pieces (goalie and an elite forward) but I still, crazily, believe that a real GM can get things turned around pretty fast

am I alone in thinking they have a top 16 roster? 

Yes.  They lack any goaltending, an elite forward, playmaking centers and a top 4 defensive D.  
 

I would place their talent at 22-27. 

[thewookie1]

30 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Yes.  They lack any goaltending, an elite forward, playmaking centers and a top 4 defensive D.  
 

I would place their talent at 22-27. 

Thompson is borderline elite; you don't score 35+ year after year otherwise

Muel has been a Top 4 Defensive Dman this year and Dahlin usually has been. 

Playmaking Centers however, not really any retort

Goalies I'm ignoring because I refuse to dig through the refuse down there

[Mr Peabody]

Maybe I’m just sick of watching the same issues year after year but without doing a deep dive I’d trade our entire roster for any other team’s.  I don’t see a path to success.   As a team we are terrible at puck handling. 

[JP51]

Not sure where i would rank them but I  less worried about talent and more worried about the tin can these guys have in their chest 

Edited 20 hours ago by JP51

[SabreFinn]

Problem is they have talent, especially on defense,  but they are not talented in the way they should be, as in defending your own goal.

[mjd1001]

It's tough because what do you consider... Talent? 

Raw talent like pure skating speed, size, quickness of release? Those are physical abilities that some equate with talent. If we consider that talent then Dylan Cozens is a top 50 player in the league.

Does talent include thinking the game? Hockey IQ? That is a little bit harder to measure.

For those who remember the NHL in the '80s, a guy like Dave Andreychuk or Tim Kerr could score 50 goals in a year. They had talent in terms of good hands, but basically they stood in front of the net, took a beating, and were there with good enough hands to knock in a lot of loose pucks. They were big but they really didn't hit, they were slow skaters, not the best stick handlers or passers either. But were they any less 'talented' than someone else Who would score 5 or 10 goals less but skated up the ice as one of the fastest skaters in a league and occasionally put the puck through a defender's legs (Joey Mullen for example?)?

In terms of raw skill, they checked a lot less boxes, but in terms of how they played the game, did that matter?

Is how well your line mates compliment your play A talent? Is how willing you are to put effort forward at the end of your shift when you're tired a talent? Legitimate question..

The best single example for me that I can't answer this would be Jack Quinn. Just how talented is he? I think he's a pretty bad hockey player, but is it because he's not talented? Is it because his talent was overestimated? Or is he very talented but something else totally is missing?

 

Edited 8 hours ago by mjd1001

[Pimlach]

 

So we hook this talometer up to each players butt and measure talent, then add it up, then divide by 23,  is that right?  

Who gives a $hit about talent?  
 

What about size, strength, speed, skating, shot, skills, grit, mental toughness, intelligence, and durability?   Talent is a concept compared to these attributes.  

Edited 5 hours ago by Pimlach

[msw2112]

I watch very little NHL hockey outside of the Sabres, so I have a hard time gauging the talent on other teams.  I can say that most nights, when the Sabres play with heart, effort, and grit, they are successful and they are capable of competing with, and beating, most teams.  I've said this in other posts - I believe that the Sabres are mentally fragile.  They can't get that 3rd win in a row, even if playing the worst teams in the league.  They can't overcome a lost challenge or a soft goal let in by UPL.  I suppose you could argue that giving up a 3-0 lead in the third period is the DEFINITION of being mentally fragile, but I do give kudos to them last night for facing adversity (bad officiating, goalie concussion, last-second goal against) and still coming out with the win.  I tried to watch the game very late and slept through most of it, so most of my observations about the game are from this board and not from the little that I actually saw.

I have always been a Lindy Ruff fan (both as a player and as a coach and just a person - I have never met him, but I understand he's a great guy), but I think the game may have passed him by and it's possible that a different coach may be able to get more consistent play out of this roster.  Granato squeezed a little bit more out of it than Lindy has, and Lindy has some new pieces that Granato didn't have; plus, the younger core guys are more experienced now than they were under Granato.  I wonder if a top flight coach could do a lot more with this team.  Somewhat in Lindy's defense is the fact that he's been saddled with a poor assistant coaching staff that was not of his choosing...but why in the world did he agree to that?  Bottom line, I DO think the talent is sufficient to be a playoff team, although not to contend for the Stanley Cup.

Edited 5 hours ago by msw2112

[BuffRaleigh]

Eventually, probably very soon, Tuch, Thompson and Dahlin are going to want out.  That's 3 first-round picks that would come back.  If they could get that in the same season, they could then trade up to the #1 spot if they don't win the lottery.  

I hope none of this happens and they add to heart and toughness to this roster along with some defensive coaching.  How is Marty Wilford still employed?

Power is a huge problem as he hasn't an ounce of toughness/strength/anger/hate/meanness in his body at 6-5 and he's defensively unaware nearly 100 percent of the time.  He is constantly pushed off the puck by smaller players.  First overall?   What a terrible pick he's turned out to be, and he's an 8 Million dollar boat anchor dragging this team down.  

Edited 5 hours ago by BuffRaleigh

[inkman]

14 minutes ago, BuffRaleigh said:

Eventually, probably very soon, Tuch, Thompson and Dahlin are going to want out.  That's 3 first-round picks that would come back.  If they could get that in the same season, they could then trade up to the #1 spot if they don't win the lottery.  

I hope none of this happens and they add to heart and toughness to this roster along with some defensive coaching.  How is Marty Wilford still employed?

Power is a huge problem as he hasn't an ounce of toughness/strength/anger/hate/meanness in his body at 6-5 and he's defensively unaware nearly 100 percent of the time.  He is constantly pushed off the puck by smaller players.  First overall?   What a terrible pick he's turned out to be, and he's an 8 Million dollar boat anchor dragging this team down.  

Thanks you for using the word boat 

[quill]

We have had, and still have, plenty of players with god-given talent, but never a good goalie and never enough good veteran leadership. Anyway, I think this team should be ranked above average when it comes to talent alone, BUT, why do we always suck? Obviously, KA's philosophy of putting together a winning team has been a total failure.

When it comes to a winning philosophy, I think the new US mens  soccer coach nailed it last week during an interview when asked about his player selection for the World Cup this summer.  He said that his philosophy of player selection is inspired by what Herb Brooks said in the movie Miracle on Ice: "I'm not looking for the best players. I'm looking for the RIGHT players."

[kas23]

Quinn had a bright future (talent?), until he didn’t. So I don’t know what to believe anymore. Maybe we overvalue our players. 

[Pimlach]

38 minutes ago, BuffRaleigh said:

Eventually, probably very soon, Tuch, Thompson and Dahlin are going to want out.  That's 3 first-round picks that would come back.  If they could get that in the same season, they could then trade up to the #1 spot if they don't win the lottery.  

I hope none of this happens and they add to heart and toughness to this roster along with some defensive coaching.  How is Marty Wilford still employed?

Power is a huge problem as he hasn't an ounce of toughness/strength/anger/hate/meanness in his body at 6-5 and he's defensively unaware nearly 100 percent of the time.  He is constantly pushed off the puck by smaller players.  First overall?   What a terrible pick he's turned out to be, and he's an 8 Million dollar boat anchor dragging this team down.  

So you want to repeat the past?  He had 3 number 1 picks in 2022 and our GM traded none of the picks on draft day or prior.  

No one is trading a top 2 or 3 first rounder for mid and late round first rounders.  

[msw2112]

3 hours ago, quill said:

We have had, and still have, plenty of players with god-given talent, but never a good goalie and never enough good veteran leadership. Anyway, I think this team should be ranked above average when it comes to talent alone, BUT, why do we always suck? Obviously, KA's philosophy of putting together a winning team has been a total failure.

When it comes to a winning philosophy, I think the new US mens  soccer coach nailed it last week during an interview when asked about his player selection for the World Cup this summer.  He said that his philosophy of player selection is inspired by what Herb Brooks said in the movie Miracle on Ice: "I'm not looking for the best players. I'm looking for the RIGHT players."

Chemistry is very important for the success of any organization, and that certainly applies to the on-field/court/ice product of a professional sports team.  Every team needs high skill guys, physical gritty guys, intellectual guys, leadership guys, younger guys, veteran guys, etc.  It's getting the right mix of each that the great GMs can do.  Then it's on the coach to get the best of out each individual and also out of the group.  I thought Granato did very well getting the most out of individuals (lots of guys having "career years" while playing for him), but not necessarily out of the team as a whole.  Ruff in the 90's got the most out of the team.  Guys like Drury, Briere, Dumont, Pomminstein, etc. were not first team All-Stars, but were clutch players who worked well together as a team.  Having Dominick Hasek and prime Ryan Miller certainly helped a lot, but all of those guys mentioned (and others) made a lot of clutch plays to win hockey games.  Not sure I can put my finger on what's happening right now, but whatever it is, it's certainly not working.

Edited 1 hour ago by msw2112