Good news! Sabres not the youngest NHL team but...

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

Still waiting for somebody to show me where the futility of the Sabres was the reason for Peterka’s departure.

I’ve heard he didn’t like the city. He acted like he didn’t like the coach(es)

Here you go 

 

They could do their jobs - that’s always an option 

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Calling Kulich and Quinn “untouchables” is high comedy - that’s not hyperbole. You cannot actually be serious. Not “only for the right return” you are calling them off limits. Absurd. You sound like rangers fans re: Eichel 

There’s a certain comfort in retreating back to having zero expectation and “collecting” your team ala EA sports nhl 

don’t really need to win if you can just be happy talking about your little collection of players online - in language you feel comes off balanced and reasonable but actually, demonstrably only exists in that form as a means to an end in and of itself: the laying out of the players you are mentally collecting in verbiage you find satisfying. Its objective horse ***** 

Do you believe that either Quinn, Kulich, Power or Benson will be traded before the season starts? I don’t. 

[inkman]

27 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Do you believe that either Quinn, Kulich, Power or Benson will be traded before the season starts? I don’t. 

You are moving the goal posts. The trades should have happened months ago/ years ago.  Instead we have a eunuch GM that bends over at every opportunity.  My lord I ***** hate these guys. How ***** hard is it?  

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, JohnC said:

If you trade Quinn he will be a 30 goal scorer for the receiving team. He is a “Hell No” player for me, and so is Power. 
 

If NOBODY on a losing roster is immune from being traded, does that mean Dahlin is also a candidate to be traded? Please don’t go  crazy on me due to pent up frustrations. 🙃

You sound like Adams. So much belief in Quinn. He hasn't shown that at all. He might do that, but he also might do next to nothing.

Yes I would trade Dahlin if I could make the team better. I have no interest in trading Dahlin for the sake of trading but if I can get better I trade anybody. Nothing and no one on this team has shown themselves to be so brilliant they are a cornerstone. There's nothing to be a cornerstone of. 

Honestly, if I could, I'd trade the entire roster and start over like an expansion team.

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Not really with the cap going up this year. Dallas traded 1 guy I would have had interest in. Vegas... no one. 

Teams are still looking to make moves. Many teams around the league are actually trying to win. I know, it's an odd concept Sabres fans aren't used to. 

[PerreaultForever]

59 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Calling Kulich and Quinn “untouchables” is high comedy - that’s not hyperbole. You cannot actually be serious. Not “only for the right return” you are calling them off limits. Absurd. You sound like rangers fans re: Eichel 

There’s a certain comfort in retreating back to having zero expectation and “collecting” your team ala EA sports nhl 

don’t really need to win if you can just be happy talking about your little collection of players online - in language you feel comes off balanced and reasonable but actually, demonstrably only exists in that form as a means to an end in and of itself: the laying out of the players you are mentally collecting in verbiage you find satisfying. Its objective horse ***** 

Well there's nothing and no one that makes you say they are perfect as is. Not the management, not the coaches, not the players. We have no character, no identity, no future. It is the most inept sports franchise in North America. 

[JohnC]

10 hours ago, inkman said:

You are moving the goal posts. The trades should have happened months ago/ years ago.  Instead we have a eunuch GM that bends over at every opportunity.  My lord I ***** hate these guys. How ***** hard is it?  

If you believe I’m a supporter of KA, you have grossly misread my posts about him. I’m almost as contemptuous of him as I am of the big boat owner.

Edited July 23 by JohnC

[JohnC]

15 hours ago, dudacek said:

Still waiting for somebody to show me where the futility of the Sabres was the reason for Peterka’s departure.

I’ve heard he didn’t like the city. He acted like he didn’t like the coach(es)

I wonder what his relationship was with the other players, especially the veteran players like Zucker and Tuch? Did they try to counsel him on the importance of playing a more responsible defensive game? There was a game on TV in which Rob Ray commented on a play where the other team scored. The Sabres were stuck in the defensive zone with the opposition controlling the puck. Peterka was nowhere near the forward he was supposed to be covering. He was off wide along the sideboard when the player went to the net and put in a rebound shot. Rob Ray replayed that play a couple of time and pointedly noted that the scorer was his responsibility. 

I liked JJP and wanted him to stay a Sabre. And from what I read so did the GM. However, he was determined to get out, as have a number of our better players. It just seems that persistent losing can be dispiriting causing more players to want a change of scenery. 

[Weave]

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

It just seems that persistent losing can be dispiriting causing more players to want a change of scenery. 

I agree with this part 100%, and it is also why I am so flabbergasted by your insistence upon strictly limiting who you are willing to move to get the team winning right away.  Your understanding that losing is driving players wanting to leave, and players refusing to come here, is incongruent with your stance on refusing to move certain players to drive immediate improvement.

[JohnC]

4 minutes ago, Weave said:

I agree with this part 100%, and it is also why I am so flabbergasted by your insistence upon strictly limiting who you are willing to move to get the team winning right away.  Your understanding that losing is driving players wanting to leave, and players refusing to come here, is incongruent with your stance on refusing to move certain players to drive immediate improvement.

My stance is not incongruent with how I view the state of the team. I simply have a different view on some of the young players that many others do. I'm very high on Power, Quinn and Benson, especially when it comes to their potential. I'm not referring to long-term potential as I am to their play in the near future, including next season. That's the source of the disagreement. I believe these players are not the source of failure but rather the source of our future (near future) success.  

[JP51]

18 hours ago, JohnC said:

If you trade Quinn he will be a 30 goal scorer for the receiving team. He is a “Hell No” player for me, and so is Power. 
 

If NOBODY on a losing roster is immune from being traded, does that mean Dahlin is also a candidate to be traded? Please don’t go  crazy on me due to pent up frustrations. 🙃

I have always been in the anyone is available for trade, including Phil Esposito, Pierre Turgeon, Pat LaFontaine etc...  so I am fine trading literally anyone on this team... I have two requirements however LOL

1. Its not Adams making those trades

2. We get the best player in the trade

Since 1. is not possible at this point, and 2 based on our history and reputation is about as impossible as me dunking a basket ball... I am going to agree with you...

 

 

 

[Weave]

27 minutes ago, JohnC said:

My stance is not incongruent with how I view the state of the team. I simply have a different view on some of the young players that many others do. I'm very high on Power, Quinn and Benson, especially when it comes to their potential. I'm not referring to long-term potential as I am to their play in the near future, including next season. That's the source of the disagreement. I believe these players are not the source of failure but rather the source of our future (near future) success.  

I think we all understand that at a minimum Tuch and Thompson are on the verge of demanding a trade if the team does not win this season.  Wouldn’t be surprised if Dahlin is added to that list.  I think it is fair to say the situation here has reached crisis stage.  There is no data at all suggesting that Power and Quinn (at least, and an argument can be made for Benson too if he is to be used in a top 6 role) are at a point where the team can count on them to positively contribute to making the playoffs this year.

Your stubbornness regarding these prospects would put this team back into teardown mode if they cannot take the next step, because it would result in us losing at least 2 of the core players on the roster. It is unnecessary risk given they are assets that could be moved for players that have proven they can perform at a playoff level.

I agree with Thorny.  As much as you say you dislike KA as a GM, you would operate similarly.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

I think we all understand that at a minimum Tuch and Thompson are on the verge of demanding a trade if the team does not win this season.  Wouldn’t be surprised if Dahlin is added to that list.  I think it is fair to say the situation here has reached crisis stage.  There is no data at all suggesting that Power and Quinn (at least, and an argument can be made for Benson too if he is to be used in a top 6 role) are at a point where the team can count on them to positively contribute to making the playoffs this year.

Your stubbornness regarding these prospects would put this team back into teardown mode if they cannot take the next step, because it would result in us losing at least 2 of the core players on the roster. It is unnecessary risk given they are assets that could be moved for players that have proven they can perform at a playoff level.

I agree with Thorny.  As much as you say you dislike KA as a GM, you would operate similarly.

[ponokasabre]

14 hours ago, Thorny said:

Here you go 

 

They could do their jobs - that’s always an option 

We also said we wouldnt trade Cozens, Mitts and Peterka....the only one we did say was Byram lol and he is still here

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

. It just seems that persistent losing can be dispiriting causing more players to want a change of scenery. 

Absolutely true, but you’re projecting this on to Peterka without any evidence it was actually the case.

Also, you have experienced 14 years of dispiriting losing.

The JJ Peterka-era Sabres have gone 117/109/14.

Poor little baby, who could blame him for quitting after living through that nightmare?

***** JJ Peterka

[JohnC]

45 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Absolutely true, but you’re projecting this on to Peterka without any evidence it was actually the case.

Also, you have experienced 14 years of dispiriting losing.

The JJ Peterka-era Sabres have gone 117/109/14.

Poor little baby, who could blame him for quitting after living through that nightmare?

***** JJ Peterka

We all don’t know what the full story is about his disgruntlement because we are not insiders. What we do know is that he was determined to get out and had a contract status where he was going to be a UFA in another season. So he was dealt. I thought the return was fair and the added players should be contributors.

 

It’s not a surprise that even well run franchises have some players who prefer a change of workplaces for a variety of reasons. It’s part of the work landscape. I have no ill-will towards him. I preferred to keep him but it didn’t work out that way. So be it. My attention is now on Kesserling and Doan.

[dudacek]

Two things have changed about the Sabres still-youthful roster:

The number of very inexperienced players in crucial roles has declined considerably.

The number of players in their prime in key positions has increased considerably.

Two years ago, they started the season with 2 players in their top 9 F/top 4 D/starting G who were in their prime (older than 25, younger than 30, Greenway and Tuch), and 4 who had yet to play 80 NHL games (Luukkonen, Quinn, Peterka and Power)

This year, they project to start the season with 6 in their prime (Luukkonen, Dahlin, Norris, Thompson, Greenway and Tuch), and one who has yet to play 80 games (Kulich).

Benson ended up cracking the top 9 two years ago and Doan may do the same this year.

[JoeSchmoe]

53 minutes ago, dudacek said:

This year, they project to start the season with 6 in their prime (Luukkonen, Dahlin, Norris, Thompson, Greenway and Tuch), and one who has yet to play 80 games (Kulich).

I'm hoping what we saw last year is nowhere near Luukkonen's prime.

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, JoeSchmoe said:

I'm hoping what we saw last year is nowhere near Luukkonen's prime.

UPL is the big unknown factor in young players reaching their prime. That's the problem. You don't know where he is at in his development. Two years ago, he looked as if he was on an upward trajectory. Last year, he regressed. He seemed to have lost his confidence and fundamentals for the position. That's a scary position to be in. I just don't know. 

[pi2000]

3 hours ago, JohnC said:

UPL is the big unknown factor in young players reaching their prime. That's the problem. You don't know where he is at in his development. Two years ago, he looked as if he was on an upward trajectory. Last year, he regressed. He seemed to have lost his confidence and fundamentals for the position. That's a scary position to be in. I just don't know. 

Development?!  He's 26! 

I too, want to believe in UPL... but he sucks, and the stats show that it's not because of the defense in front of him.

6th worse high danger save %

2nd worst goals saved above average and high danger goals saved above average

 

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Development?!  He's 26! 

I too, want to believe in UPL... but he sucks, and the stats show that it's not because of the defense in front of him.

6th worse high danger save %

2nd worst goals saved above average and high danger goals saved above average

 

There were 5 goalies UPL's age and younger who played 40 NHL games last year.

He's played three NHL seasons: one below average, one good, and last year, where he lost his mojo in the December losing streak and sucked afterwards.

Personally, I'd bet against him, but development-wise, he's in a similar career spot to Jack Quinn and Owen Power: young enough that we're still not sure what he is, old enough that it's time to ***** or get off the pot.

[JohnC]

12 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

Development?!  He's 26! 

I too, want to believe in UPL... but he sucks, and the stats show that it's not because of the defense in front of him.

6th worse high danger save %

2nd worst goals saved above average and high danger goals saved above average

 

Have you read my many posts on UPL that I’m not sold on him? And I have stated that one of the biggest failures of the limited GM is not having an adequate backup plan for him. It was and is inexcusable. Not sure why you think otherwise.

[pi2000]

57 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Have you read my many posts on UPL that I’m not sold on him? And I have stated that one of the biggest failures of the limited GM is not having an adequate backup plan for him. It was and is inexcusable. Not sure why you think otherwise.

I just don't believe the jury is still out on him.   

He is what he is at this point of his career... he's a career .898/3.05, with over 200 pro games played.   His numbers in Rochester were not good, and his numbers in the NHL are not good.   I don't understand what anybody sees in him..... I suppose in the land of the blind one-eyed man is King.

[JohnC]

21 minutes ago, pi2000 said:

I just don't believe the jury is still out on him.   

He is what he is at this point of his career... he's a career .898/3.05, with over 200 pro games played.   His numbers in Rochester were not good, and his numbers in the NHL are not good.   I don't understand what anybody sees in him..... I suppose in the land of the blind one-eyed man is King.

TBD.