What do we think of the Sabres defence corps?

[inkman]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Power doesn't have to start smashing people around (as nice as that might be to think about) but he does have to start using his size and boxing people out. His defensive skills are somewhat lacking at this point. Part of that is on the Sabres, and part of that is on him. 

So you didn't like the Mrtka pick then? 🙂

 

TBD to be honest 

[Dryballs]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Power doesn't have to start smashing people around (as nice as that might be to think about) but he does have to start using his size and boxing people out. His defensive skills are somewhat lacking at this point. Part of that is on the Sabres, and part of that is on him. 

So you didn't like the Mrtka pick then? 🙂

 

He doesn’t have to smash anybody but he could be an excellent/upper tier NHL D man if he would physically impose his will. Doesn’t gotta be mean just a little more intense. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Power doesn't have to start smashing people around (as nice as that might be to think about) but he does have to start using his size and boxing people out. His defensive skills are somewhat lacking at this point. Part of that is on the Sabres, and part of that is on him. 

So you didn't like the Mrtka pick then? 🙂

 

If power played defense like mrtka, I'd like him more. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, Cityo'Rasmii said:

but Owen's hair?

It’s noteworthy 

[PerreaultForever]

31 minutes ago, Dryballs said:

He doesn’t have to smash anybody but he could be an excellent/upper tier NHL D man if he would physically impose his will. Doesn’t gotta be mean just a little more intense. 

If. That's the question. So far he has not shown any signs of using his body or developing good D habits. It's still early in his career and he can, but we have to see signs of it to have that hope realistically. 

[PerreaultForever]

20 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

If power played defense like mrtka, I'd like him more. 

That's actually a fair point, but Mrtka is still years away. You can sort of see it right? Byram arbitration, 2 year deal and he walks, and in 2 years Mrtka enters the D. Once again, rearranging deck chairs. 

[Dryballs]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

If. That's the question. So far he has not shown any signs of using his body or developing good D habits. It's still early in his career and he can, but we have to see signs of it to have that hope realistically. 

In spite of his obvious talent, he simply hasn’t played with any desire. That’s why I would move on from him. He’s had time and has shown exactly what he is. Get rid of his contract and auntie Em style even if ya gotta accept a sub par deal. He’ll continue to get eaten alive for years by any player who feels like taking his lunch money and his submissive style will affect the entire team….  #1 player in his draft. Pathetic 

[dudacek]

Owen Power had a rough season. I'm not entirely sure why, but I suspect the contract and the coaching change each played a role.

He will be better this year, and probably a lot better because he's very gifted and very young, and that's what gifted young defencemen do.

A lot of you probably won't notice right away because what you hate most about him isn't going to change.

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Dryballs said:

In spite of his obvious talent, he simply hasn’t played with any desire. That’s why I would move on from him. He’s had time and has shown exactly what he is. Get rid of his contract and auntie Em style even if ya gotta accept a sub par deal. He’ll continue to get eaten alive for years by any player who feels like taking his lunch money and his submissive style will affect the entire team….  #1 player in his draft. Pathetic 

He does seem to be spending more time on his hair than on his defensive game that is for sure. He's young though. That's the problem. Sabres haven't had vets paired with him to teach him to be a pro. His contract was too much and too soon that is obvious. Again, KA worst GM in hockey. 

[Taro T]

9 hours ago, dudacek said:

Owen Power had a rough season. I'm not entirely sure why, but I suspect the contract and the coaching change each played a role.

He will be better this year, and probably a lot better because he's very gifted and very young, and that's what gifted young defencemen do.

A lot of you probably won't notice right away because what you hate most about him isn't going to change.

Would agree with thtis IF he hadn't gotten injured right at the end of the season.  Not sure that he'll have the full development this year that we are expecting/hoping.

Hopefully that's just erring on the side of caution / not getting our hopes up; but expect we might not see the improvement from him from the get go like we would've had he been able to train properly the entire summer.

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Would agree with thtis IF he hadn't gotten injured right at the end of the season.  Not sure that he'll have the full development this year that we are expecting/hoping.

Hopefully that's just erring on the side of caution / not getting our hopes up; but expect we might not see the improvement from him from the get go like we would've had he been able to train properly the entire summer.

Until he stops playing passive defense, he could train himself up to be a mack truck and it wouldn't matter. 

[LTS]

10 hours ago, dudacek said:

Owen Power had a rough season. I'm not entirely sure why, but I suspect the contract and the coaching change each played a role.

He will be better this year, and probably a lot better because he's very gifted and very young, and that's what gifted young defencemen do.

A lot of you probably won't notice right away because what you hate most about him isn't going to change.

Do you really think much changed with the coaching? Sure Ruff was behind the bench but Appert was there singing the same program that the Sabres had been playing. Wilford was there, preaching the same craptastic defensive scheme.  

I don't really think anything changed with the Sabres last year with regards to coaching other than Lindy Ruff being brought in as a figurehead to help placate fans into believing in the team. We know the coaching search never happened. Pegula had a hometown guy they could pump up in an effort to make fans believe that Buffalo "believes in itself". No real coaching change and no change in style.

Pegula is clearly operating the Sabres as a means to accomplish some goal we've not thought of yet.

As for Power, he COULD be a lot of things and I expect him to improve as would be the case with most young defenders, but right now I'm not sold that he's what the Sabres need on the blue line.  Then again, I'm not sure that it matters who is on the roster when the defensive scheme is so broken.

 

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

Until he stops playing passive defense, he could train himself up to be a mack truck and it wouldn't matter. 

Well, that's a big part of why IMHO Wilford needs to go.  He needs a coach that will force him to start to do that.  Could've sworn that Power has said that a big part of his lack of aggression comes from being much bigger than the other kids when he was in youth hockey and getting called for penalties any time he'd do anything more than just look ath them.

He needs the coach that will force him to actually engage and also needs to hear about it everytime he holds the puck for 4 seconds just standing there when the right pass was available 2 seconds in.  Pretty sure he's a bright guy, so he should be able to figure it out.  But both of those he needs to be coached to trust himself to make that play and know that if he takes a penalty, it'll be forgiven (most of the time) and if he trusts himself to put the puck into a tighter area that will allow a teammate to really create chaos that an oops on that pass will get forgiven way more than going to a safe outlet 2 seconds later with that opportunity gone will.

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, that's a big part of why IMHO Wilford needs to go.  He needs a coach that will force him to start to do that.  Could've sworn that Power has said that a big part of his lack of aggression comes from being much bigger than the other kids when he was in youth hockey and getting called for penalties any time he'd do anything more than just look ath them.

He needs the coach that will force him to actually engage and also needs to hear about it everytime he holds the puck for 4 seconds just standing there when the right pass was available 2 seconds in.  Pretty sure he's a bright guy, so he should be able to figure it out.  But both of those he needs to be coached to trust himself to make that play and know that if he takes a penalty, it'll be forgiven (most of the time) and if he trusts himself to put the puck into a tighter area that will allow a teammate to really create chaos that an oops on that pass will get forgiven way more than going to a safe outlet 2 seconds later with that opportunity gone will.

He needs Nick Lindstrom to coach him

 

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He needs Nick Lindstrom to coach him

 

Don't believe Lidstrom is a coach.  He'd be a great mentor though should he be willing to do that.

The guy that would be the ideal coach would be Mike Ramsey.  But he's not leaving his beloved Minnesota.  Wonder if they could convince him to be an advisor and just come to town for TC and conversations every so often via Zoom or the like.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LTS said:

Do you really think much changed with the coaching? Sure Ruff was behind the bench but Appert was there singing the same program that the Sabres had been playing. Wilford was there, preaching the same craptastic defensive scheme.  

I don't really think anything changed with the Sabres last year with regards to coaching other than Lindy Ruff being brought in as a figurehead to help placate fans into believing in the team. We know the coaching search never happened. Pegula had a hometown guy they could pump up in an effort to make fans believe that Buffalo "believes in itself". No real coaching change and no change in style.

 

I disagree.

Minor point: Appert was new to the NHL staff and it was neither clear how much his Amerks system had in common with Granato’s Sabres system, nor how much influence he had on Ruff’s system last season.

More importantly, this was Ruff’s system, not Granato’s. I’ll defer to better systems minds than mine as to what the differences were, but there were differences, and it was reported that there was pushback from the players about those differences, particularly when things started falling apart in the fall.

To my eyes, Bo Byram’s play notably elevated from what we saw at the end of the previous season, largely because the Ruff system had much more in common with the Colorado system he was used to.

Meanwhile, his teammates on the blueline (with the exception of Dahlin) notably regressed to my eyes. Clifton’s drop-off was precipitous largely due to terrible reads. Power was visibly thinking instead of acting on a consistent basis. Samuelsson never looked comfortable. Luukkonen started guessing and overplaying things because he could no longer trust what his defencemen would do.

Similarly, other players who played well under Ruff - I’m thinking specifically McLeod, Tuch, Zucker - were guys with a lot of games played outside Granato. 

Add in the defensive struggles of Quinn, Cozens and Peterka - all of whom had almost exclusively played a go-for-broke style under Granato for their NHL careers - and I think all the signs were there of an out-of-sync collection of players.

To my eye, the team looked poorly coached.

Personally, I never thought Granato was a terrible coach, and I do wonder whether the game has passed Lindy by. But I don’t think either man is completely incompetent.

I think there was a concerted effort to change the way the team played that resulted in rough transition for a number of players, and eventually coach-driven changes to a roster that seems to have been a poor match to what the coach wanted to do.

Theoretically, the learning curve should be over and the roster changes should result in a better fit.

Neither are things we can count on though, especially when the quality of the roster, and the coaching staff remain questionable.

Edited 39 minutes ago by dudacek