Sabres Trade JJ Peterka to Utah for Defenseman Michael Kesselring and Forward Josh Doan

[Brawndo]

For Funsies here is Dahlin’s 

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Evolving Hockey is cited as a source for The Athletic Player Cards. 
 

Here is the data from EV’s Website as well as Hockey Viz. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm being too hard on power 

[Brawndo]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I'm being too hard on power 

There is runway left with him to develop. The organization has not put him in position to succeed. An ECHL Level coach in Wilford, taking until this offseason to potentially find him a partner. 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

There is runway left with him to develop. The organization has not put him in position to succeed. An ECHL Level coach in Wilford, taking until this offseason to potentially find him a partner. 

Totally stunned Ruff has kept Wilford around. He's failed every year he's been here. 

[JohnC]

5 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

There is runway left with him to develop. The organization has not put him in position to succeed. An ECHL Level coach in Wilford, taking until this offseason to potentially find him a partner. 

That should have been a priority when he was first drafted. It would have helped in his development, and it would have made the team better by solidifying the second pairing that gets a lot of playing time. And other related issues are who is going to be paired with Dahlin and if Byram is traded how will the pairings shake out?

[Turbo44]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Totally stunned Ruff has kept Wilford around. He's failed every year he's been here. 

Yeah it makes no sense

[Brawndo]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Totally stunned Ruff has kept Wilford around. He's failed every year he's been here. 

There may have been one or two people that would have been acceptable for the allocation of additional resources for the coaching staff. One was not interested. 

15 minutes ago, JohnC said:

That should have been a priority when he was first drafted. It would have helped in his development, and it would have made the team better by solidifying the second pairing that gets a lot of playing time. And other related issues are who is going to be paired with Dahlin and if Byram is traded how will the pairings shake out?

This has been a GMKA Talking Point since Power signed his ELC, no action though 

I would trade for Liligren  from San Jose. One of the common trade proposals for Byram before the draft was Liligren and 30th overall. San Jose does have Edmonton’s First this year

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

This has been a GMKA Talking Point since Power signed his ELC, no action though 

I would trade for Liligren  from San Jose. One of the common trade proposals for Byram before the draft was Liligren and 30th overall. San Jose does have Edmonton’s First this year

KA may not be hesitant with his thoughts but he certainly is frozen when he tries to act. It shouldn't be a surprise that when the top of the organizational chart reeks with mediocrity, the results are less than mediocre. A vicious circle that the owner is willing to endure. 

[dudacek]

Random factoid:

Josh Doan played with Owen Power as teenager with the Chicago Steel.

[Archie Lee]

3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

There is runway left with him to develop. The organization has not put him in position to succeed. An ECHL Level coach in Wilford, taking until this offseason to potentially find him a partner. 

In defense of Wilford, re: Power. Didn't a whole boatload of evidence just get posted that shows Power has actually been really good?  Did Wilford decide to not spend money and assets to get Power a veteran D partner the last 3 years?

The Sabres started a new rebuild when Adams fired Kreuger. The next year Granato brought in Wilford as one of his coaches.  From 21-22 through 22-23, progress seemed to be reasonably good for our young defenders and team in general. Prior to 23-24, Adams completely failed to recognize the moment when the team needed to make moves that would position them as a clear playoff team. Instead, he brought in Johnson and Clifton and banked on internal growth. That year the team regressed to 84 points from the previous year's 91; but, it should be noted, the 23-24 pre-season point-projection-models, had the Sabres right around 83-86 points. I would argue that the outlier in the Granato years was not the 23-24 regression, but the surprise 91 point season of 22-23. 

Then, Granato is fired and Ruff is brought in and we see further regression.  In Power's game.  In UPL's game.  In Samuelsson's game.  In Quinn's game.  Did Wilford start sucking (or sucking more) as an assistant? Or, did we hire a 65 year old with 3 playoff appearances in his last 11 as a head coach (2 actual winning seasons), whose recent teams have, pretty consistently if not every year, had bad defensive and goaltending metrics?

I'm not saying they can't do better than Wilford. I don't wish him any ill will, but I don't spend too much time worrying about fired assistant coaches. I'm not directing this at anyone, but to the general fan view that people have of Wilford; that Wilford has become a stand-in for the failings of the Sabres to become a better defensive team, is pretty weak sauce in my view.  

Edited 4 hours ago by Archie Lee

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, Brawndo said:

There is runway left with him to develop. The organization has not put him in position to succeed. An ECHL Level coach in Wilford, taking until this offseason to potentially find him a partner. 

Reinhart on D 

Don’t trade him or live to regret 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

it

[Taro T]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

While I agree that is certainly possible with Power, the same can be said for Byram who is only 23.  The biggest issue with Power is that he will never be an elite D in the NHL because of his refusal to engage physically, and I don’t see that ever changing.  He is also positionally terrible.  He isn’t on the O level of a Karlsson, Makar or Quinn Hughes to make up for the lack of solid D. IMHO he will never be more that a 2nd pair D and I’d rather have Byram for that job. 

Don’t forget he’s already played 242 NHL games. He are getting close to the point that he is what he is.  
 

 

Agree that Power MAY never become what the Sabres hoped/expected when he was drafted, but personally can't look past his only being 22.

To the bolded, pretty sure that Adams convinced his boss (or maybe it was the other way around) to run the experiment to see if the threshold players need to pass is that 200 game or so threshold to become what they're going to be or if they needed to be mature enough to actually be MEN when they start getting into the meat of those 200 games  and that they won't reach their prime at any sooner by facing stiffer competition at the earliest they can without getting blown up.

It WAS an interesting experiment.  And perhaps some other owner/GM at some future point will try to replicate the experiment by changing something that Adams or his coaches did that "corrupted" the experiment (in the eyes of those bold enough to repeat the experiment; and most likely the variable that owner and GM will try to fix will be getting legitimate NHL coaches to implement the plan as choosing NTDP coaches to implement the plan MIGHT've doomed the experiment but it probably was doomed anyhow) and we'll see THAT attempt to prove that it's games played and not maturity PLUS games played that dictates when pleyers become what they're going to be. 

But right now, the one time the experiment has been run on a non-expansion team and arguably the one time it's EVER been run has shown us that it ISN'T just players reaching the games played threshold to reach their primes.  They also need the maturity for the players to be effectively (for lack of a better word) growing with those games played.

Yes, Power has played 242 NHL games.  And he's been the better player on his primary pairing for probably 200+ of those games.  At this point in his career, that 200/40 ratio should almost be the exact opposite of what it actually is &/or he should've been 3rd pairing, not 2nd pairing for ~160 of those games at least.  He still has runway to try to take flight.

EDIT: And hopefully it is never a Buffalo based team that tries to run that experiment again.  Let some other fanbase be the guinea pigs stuck having to hope the hypothesis being tested is correct.

Edited 1 hour ago by Taro T

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Taro T said:

He still has runway to try to take flight.

How long do we have to wait?  Another 160 games? Longer?  Again, if he doesn't engage physically he will never be worth the $ he is being paid.  

We need to win NOW!  Waiting forever for Power to get a clue is no longer worth it.  If he was on a bridge contract I'd be more willing to wait, but on an internal cap team ever $ wasted on a player who doesn't earn his contract (or at least close to it) is a player the needs to be replaced. 

[Taro T]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

How long do we have to wait?  Another 160 games? Longer?  Again, if he doesn't engage physically he will never be worth the $ he is being paid.  

We need to win NOW!  Waiting forever for Power to get a clue is no longer worth it.  If he was on a bridge contract I'd be more willing to wait, but on an internal cap team ever $ wasted on a player who doesn't earn his contract (or at least close to it) is a player the needs to be replaced. 

No data.  Personally, expect he'll start being what he actually is going to be the season after this.

But, also, starting this season, there's a very good chance this team isn't an "internal cap" team any longer.  Unless they punt Byram and bring back less salary than he ends up making, they'll at most have $5MM in cap left and if they make a move for Rust or something else to help the top 6 they'll have less than $2MM in cap (again, presuming Byram doesn't go out the door for less salary than he'll be getting).

[Pimlach]

8 hours ago, Trettioåtta said:

Not defending the contract, but Power is only 22. Most defenceman haven't even made the show regularly by then. The Sabres need to stop expecting 18-23 year olds to step up and fill sizeable holes in the line up. Power should have been penciled in for the third line with sheltered minutes whilst he got to grips with the NHL. Instead he was elevated to a 2nd NHL D man and epxected to perform like one.

Power is absolutely the right mold of player for us to sell low on, and in two years be anchoring a top pairing on a contending team

 

He is 22 and should not be making $8.35M - that is a problem, especially with the general fan base perception of him.  

I agree that the Sabres gave him too much to swallow, and too fast - along with Cozens, he is another example of "no blockers" and big contracts that have gone wrong.   Expectations heaped on a kid that are beyond reasonable. 

What is worse is that Power gets no top cover.  Now they bring in 25 year old Kesselring (only 152 NHL games) to support 22 year old Power (242 NHL games).   

I like Kesselring, but I don't see the legitimate execution of a plan from the Sabres FO.   

Maybe a whole bunch of players will step up, grow up faster, and end this dam drought?  It will take that and a goalie to emerge from the group of three.  

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

In defense of Wilford, re: Power. Didn't a whole boatload of evidence just get posted that shows Power has actually been really good?  Did Wilford decide to not spend money and assets to get Power a veteran D partner the last 3 years?

The Sabres started a new rebuild when Adams fired Kreuger. The next year Granato brought in Wilford as one of his coaches.  From 21-22 through 22-23, progress seemed to be reasonably good for our young defenders and team in general. Prior to 23-24, Adams completely failed to recognize the moment when the team needed to make moves that would position them as a clear playoff team. Instead, he brought in Johnson and Clifton and banked on internal growth. That year the team regressed to 84 points from the previous year's 91; but, it should be noted, the 23-24 pre-season point-projection-models, had the Sabres right around 83-86 points. I would argue that the outlier in the Granato years was not the 23-24 regression, but the surprise 91 point season of 22-23. 

Then, Granato is fired and Ruff is brought in and we see further regression.  In Power's game.  In UPL's game.  In Samuelsson's game.  In Quinn's game.  Did Wilford start sucking (or sucking more) as an assistant? Or, did we hire a 65 year old with 3 playoff appearances in his last 11 as a head coach (2 actual winning seasons), whose recent teams have, pretty consistently if not every year, had bad defensive and goaltending metrics?

I'm not saying they can't do better than Wilford. I don't wish him any ill will, but I don't spend too much time worrying about fired assistant coaches. I'm not directing this at anyone, but to the general fan view that people have of Wilford; that Wilford has become a stand-in for the failings of the Sabres to become a better defensive team, is pretty weak sauce in my view.  

 

What’s weak sauce is this organization not demonstrating that it is serious about winning.  The fact that GMKA is entering his sixth season despite the regression and failure to make the playoffs, coupled with the fact that  Wilford, Bales and Ellis are entering their fifth seasons.  Competent organizations make changes to their coaching staffs all the time, Colorado hired Dave Hasktol earlier this week. Sabres Fans cannot even receive that simple change. 

 

Wilford is a symptom of a much larger problem that starts with the owner. The reason I singled out Wilford is there was a candidate they reached out to about replacing him with who ultimately turned them down. This is another serious concern about the organization they seemingly focus on one potential solution, if that doesn’t work they do not pivot. The organization feels there is an opportunity to improve, but decides to stay with the status quo after the only candidate turns them down. 
 

Could you imagine Power in a competent defense system with numbers he is putting up?