Summer 2025: NHL Offseason

[Archie Lee]

16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Why? I applaud GMs who creatively make moves to improve their teams. Imagine if Buffalo had a good GM like Montreal does?

21/22 NHL standings Montreal 55 pts. Buffalo 75 pts.

24/25 NHL standings Montreal 91 pts. Buffalo 79 pts. 

Hurts, doesn't it? 

I’m not sure. Could be real. Montreal has taken similar steps to what the Sabres did in Adams’s 1st two full seasons post-Krueger (I acknowledge that the Habs made the playoffs last year, while the Sabres missed by a point in 22-23). I think Montreal has another step or two to take before it can be said that their GM is all that. 

[ska-T Palmtown]

8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

There was a time and place for each but they did neither. This was the time to spend to the cap but they didn't and they didn't fill the holes and thus they are going to battle with Boston for last place in the division. woohoo!

The tear down was the time for moves like this one. They got a lot of picks and prospects but could have had more. San Jose is doing a complete do over. Now wait and watch them pass us in a few years just like Montreal has. 

I would love to defend the Sabres, but there is nothing to defend. I do not understand people who try to still say they are doing anything right. They are not a serious franchise. 

To the bold, that is patently false. There *was* a time when taking on a dead contract was the thing to do ... and they did it. I feel gross "defending" the front office, but it is a simple fact. The current roster is well above the cap floor, so taking on a dead contract would be even more stupid than leaving some unused space below the cap.

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Read carefully to what I wrote. I said that they are not likely and inclined to do so. I didn’t say never. And that is a fact. The SABRES can handle their contract situation any way they want. That’s not the end all or be all when evaluating them. The bottom line is their record. On that measurement they are lagging.
 

You too - of course they are not currently inclined to take on a dead contract to get to the cap floor that they are already well above.

In general, it seems crazy to a) be mad at San Jose for getting to the cap floor (which the Sabres have also done in the past) and b) mad (?) the Sabres are not making the same move now. What an odd argument this all was.

Edited 12 hours ago by ska-T Palmtown

[Sabres Fan in NS]

17 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Why? I applaud GMs who creatively make moves to improve their teams. Imagine if Buffalo had a good GM like Montreal does?

21/22 NHL standings Montreal 55 pts. Buffalo 75 pts.

24/25 NHL standings Montreal 91 pts. Buffalo 79 pts. 

Hurts, doesn't it? 

 

15 hours ago, JohnC said:

Why do you have a problem with San Jose taking on a contract to get to the cap minimum? You might not like the contract maneuver but it’s within the rules. It’s not something that the Sabres would likely do, and I’m fine with that.  But I’m not going to criticize another organization that is more creative and willing to take unconventional actions to improve their situation. 

Who cares about this BS being within the rules.

And how exactly is Montreal improved?  They may have traded Carey for $1 or something.  They certainly did not get a player in return.

Trading for a player who will not ever play for your team so you can get to the cap floor is crap and should not be allowed - that's my point.

[LGR4GM]

I should add that Montreal adding Dobson this offseason is huge. That could be the move that truly pushes them clear of the Sabres. Montreal is going to have to trade for a center at some point, that's their biggest issue. 

They are a very interesting team to watch this year. 

[JohnC]

18 minutes ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

 

Who cares about this BS being within the rules.

And how exactly is Montreal improved?  They may have traded Carey for $1 or something.  They certainly did not get a player in return.

Trading for a player who will not ever play for your team so you can get to the cap floor is crap and should not be allowed - that's my point.

Whether you or I like the rule is not the point. Teams are allowed to buy or sell a contract without gaining the services of the player in order to reach the cap floor. It comes down to a team taking an action that is permissible that it feels is beneficial. So what's the problem with that? People legally/appropriately take tax deductions even when the specific deduction is outdated. Why would you criticize the person who takes the lawful deduction when it is allowed under the tax rules? Everyone is playing under the same rules. Some organizations use them to their advantage more so than others. And when they do they are acting within the established lines. 

[JohnC]

59 minutes ago, ska-T Palmtown said:

To the bold, that is patently false. There *was* a time when taking on a dead contract was the thing to do ... and they did it. I feel gross "defending" the front office, but it is a simple fact. The current roster is well above the cap floor, so taking on a dead contract would be even more stupid than leaving some unused space below the cap.

You too - of course they are not currently inclined to take on a dead contract to get to the cap floor that they are already well above.

In general, it seems crazy to a) be mad at San Jose for getting to the cap floor (which the Sabres have also done in the past) and b) mad (?) the Sabres are not making the same move now. What an odd argument this all was.

San Jose took an action that it felt was beneficial for them. And it was within the rules. So what is the problem with that and the reason for criticism of what they did? That's the heart of the discussion on this topic. I simply made the point that I have no criticism for the cap maneuver they made that was within the cap rules. 

[DarthEbriate]

The Habs now have $5.6M in cap space (without even having to wait to put Price on LTIR); the Sabres have $5.1M. Which team is more likely to aggressively go for the playoffs and use that remaining cap this season? Or do they both sit idle until the trade deadline, then make their decision that this isn't the year at that time?

Beware the Sharks! The season the Sabres acquired Bishop to reach the floor with $17M in cap space -- they reached 91 points. It's all about the goaltending. 😇

[PerreaultForever]

7 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What a bad comp. 

Montreal had the same -20 goal differential as Buffalo last year. They finished 17th in goals for and 23 in goals against. 

It doesn't hurt. Adams is a bad GM but Montreal got the one thing Buffalo didn't last year, timely goaltending. They're basically equivalent teams. If Buffalo had competent coaching they could have been Montreal. Smartest thing Adams has done is dump Skinner, Clifton, Cozens. 

Now if Montreal takes a step this year, then I'd be more inclined to agree with you.

Could have. Should have. Would have. 

But they DID.  Sabres Did NOT. 

You are still too reliant on looking at stats rather than on ice success. If you believe these two teams are equivalent you are delusional. They are rebuilding aggressively and correctly. The Sabres are not. Sabres have made ZERO progress under Adams. 

 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Archie Lee said:

I’m not sure. Could be real. Montreal has taken similar steps to what the Sabres did in Adams’s 1st two full seasons post-Krueger (I acknowledge that the Habs made the playoffs last year, while the Sabres missed by a point in 22-23). I think Montreal has another step or two to take before it can be said that their GM is all that. 

Montreal might not even make the playoffs but their rebuild is going much better and faster than the Sabres. The make up of that team is substantially different and they have it more correct. GM is much more aggressive and active. Not every move is great but he makes moves and more work than don't. 

[PerreaultForever]

5 hours ago, Sabres Fan in NS said:

 

Who cares about this BS being within the rules.

And how exactly is Montreal improved?  They may have traded Carey for $1 or something.  They certainly did not get a player in return.

Trading for a player who will not ever play for your team so you can get to the cap floor is crap and should not be allowed - that's my point.

They opened cap space to add a player now or at the deadline. As was mentioned, rumor has it they are trying to trade for Lundell but they want a top 6 forward and they are doing what they need to for that. If they do nothing then no, they didn't improve, but it's a move to make a move so wait and see. 

As for San Jose, they want to roll with a bunch of ELCs in a total rebuild so we can watch and see if they build faster than the Sabres or not. It's a plan. We shall see how it goes. They likely want to be in on McKenna and then they will start to add with that next free agent grouping which at this point looks massive. 

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Could have. Should have. Would have. 

But they DID.  Sabres Did NOT. 

You are still too reliant on looking at stats rather than on ice success. If you believe these two teams are equivalent you are delusional. They are rebuilding aggressively and correctly. The Sabres are not. Sabres have made ZERO progress under Adams. 

 

I'm gonna guess I saw more of Montreal last year than you did. They had major defense issues. Their forwards had similar problems to Buffalo. They got timely goaltending but they were eliminated in 5 games by a Washington team that wasn't that deep. Why the ***** should I care if Buffalo makes the playoffs and gets smoked in 5 games? You should hang a banner for Montreal. 

Their only aggressive move is Dobson, which I really like. As I noted, should be interesting to see if they've truly stepped past Buffalo. Until then, you're comparison is ***** for the reasons I stated.

34 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Montreal might not even make the playoffs but their rebuild is going much better and faster than the Sabres. The make up of that team is substantially different and they have it more correct. GM is much more aggressive and active. Not every move is great but he makes moves and more work than don't. 

I guess we will find out this year. They certainly could be better than Buffalo, especially after Buffalo brought the same coaching staff back. 

[LGR4GM]

We can argue all we want about Adams, but he did make moves. 

Cozens out, Norris in

Peterka out, Kesselring + Doan in

Lafferty out,  Danforth in

Reimer out,  Lyon in

Clifton out, Timmins in

Will it ultimately get this team to the playoffs? I keep putting them at 85pts but idk, with how good Dahlin and Thompson are maybe 95pts is possible. My point though is, dislike Adams all you want, but he's essentially flipped 2 of the top 6 forwards and 2 of the bottom 4 defense since the trade deadline. 

[PerreaultForever]

53 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'm gonna guess I saw more of Montreal last year than you did. They had major defense issues. Their forwards had similar problems to Buffalo. They got timely goaltending but they were eliminated in 5 games by a Washington team that wasn't that deep. Why the ***** should I care if Buffalo makes the playoffs and gets smoked in 5 games? You should hang a banner for Montreal. 

Their only aggressive move is Dobson, which I really like. As I noted, should be interesting to see if they've truly stepped past Buffalo. Until then, you're comparison is ***** for the reasons I stated.

I guess we will find out this year. They certainly could be better than Buffalo, especially after Buffalo brought the same coaching staff back. 

To the bold, you have been in this Sabres bubble too long. Making the playoffs is what it's all about and that's how you build a winning culture. This Sabres ideology of when we get there we want to stay there has reaped what so far? Nothing. A serious organization knows you need to WIN and WINNING is all that matters. That's how you build your culture.

Now I hate Montreal so I hope everything goes bad and they crash and burn but right now, objectively, I see a much better GM and a much better rebuild. I hate it. But it's reality. 

I think the only thing we ever agree on is that Buffalo's coaching is not good. Bad actually. Is that all it would take? No, that's where we disagree but there will be plenty of threads for that. 

Somebody with a lot of time on their hands should go back and look at all the teams that were below us or equal to us over the last 15 years and see how many of them have moved past. It's quite a few. Not all the rebuilds have been all that great, but there's quite a few better than the Sabres. 

[LGR4GM]

32 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

To the bold, you have been in this Sabres bubble too long. Making the playoffs is what it's all about and that's how you build a winning culture. This Sabres ideology of when we get there we want to stay there has reaped what so far? Nothing. A serious organization knows you need to WIN and WINNING is all that matters. That's how you build your culture.

Now I hate Montreal so I hope everything goes bad and they crash and burn but right now, objectively, I see a much better GM and a much better rebuild. I hate it. But it's reality. 

I think the only thing we ever agree on is that Buffalo's coaching is not good. Bad actually. Is that all it would take? No, that's where we disagree but there will be plenty of threads for that. 

Somebody with a lot of time on their hands should go back and look at all the teams that were below us or equal to us over the last 15 years and see how many of them have moved past. It's quite a few. Not all the rebuilds have been all that great, but there's quite a few better than the Sabres. 

What a joke. You think being wrecked by a mediocre Washington team in 5 games matters. Also love how now you're changing the goalposts. Let's say Buffalo makes it that Granato year, then loses in 5 games, they would be exactly where they are now. Buffalo is losing because Adams has no vision of his own and blows in the wind based on what ever Pegula or the coach of the month wants. 

"This Sabres ideology..." what in the actual ***** would be the point of making the playoffs and then going back to sucking for 5 years? What team in the league wants that? You think some magical ***** will occur because they sneak in one year, like some special switch will flip in their brains and suddenly they won't be able to miss! What garbage. They keep missing because they have trash gms, 4th rate coaching, and league average drafting. 

Montreal made the playoffs, let's see if they do again, otherwise everything you wrote here is worth less than used toilet paper. 

 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Montreal might not even make the playoffs but their rebuild is going much better and faster than the Sabres. The make up of that team is substantially different and they have it more correct. GM is much more aggressive and active. Not every move is great but he makes moves and more work than don't. 

Every ***** NHL team you could say this about. It's been 14 years, everyone has a better and faster rebuild. 

What's next, "ice is cold" or "Josh Allen wears 17" 

Wow, enlightening. 

[dudacek]

I think it is amazing how much Montreal’s  24/25 season has in common with the Sabres 22/23 season.

The Dobson move is the sort of thing Adams failed to do after the Sabres big jump, but I don’t think Montreal, right now on paper, is better than Buffalo.

If they prove me wrong, it will be because Demidov, Slavkovsky and some of their other youngsters take a step Power, Cozens, Quinn and other Sabres youngsters haven’t. 

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

We can argue all we want about Adams, but he did make moves. 

Cozens out, Norris in

Peterka out, Kesselring + Doan in

Lafferty out,  Danforth in

Reimer out,  Lyon in

Clifton out, Timmins in

Will it ultimately get this team to the playoffs? I keep putting them at 85pts but idk, with how good Dahlin and Thompson are maybe 95pts is possible. My point though is, dislike Adams all you want, but he's essentially flipped 2 of the top 6 forwards and 2 of the bottom 4 defense since the trade deadline. 

I guess for me it doesn’t look like close to enough for a team verging on 15 years missed. I look at it from the perspective of when the season ended, and it’s 3 fringe moves and downgrading the top 6

if someone had said before last season started, that we’d finish with 79 points, miss for Adams’ 5th straight year, and these would be the only changes, including management and coaching, before puck drop next season, I think it would be near 100% “not enough” for a response - we all agreed it would be a blood bath 

we were all talking about the need for impact additions. We might have made 1 at the cost of losing 1. (Peterka/Kesselring) the perspective really does change and ease up as the months go by. If we put our minds back in the place of the unacceptable disappointment we felt, this looks weak 

ymmv

- - - 

if we somehow *do* strike gold with Norris, it may change the calculation for me somewhat. But there’s no reason to think the move looks particularly good, from the perspective of now - there’s been no benefit of the doubt earned 

Edited 2 hours ago by Thorny

[sabremike]

If you polled players on who they feel the worst coaching staff in the league is the only question is if ours would win in unanimous fashion and not just an overwhelming margin.

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

What a joke. You think being wrecked by a mediocre Washington team in 5 games matters. Also love how now you're changing the goalposts. Let's say Buffalo makes it that Granato year, then loses in 5 games, they would be exactly where they are now. Buffalo is losing because Adams has no vision of his own and blows in the wind based on what ever Pegula or the coach of the month wants. 

"This Sabres ideology..." what in the actual ***** would be the point of making the playoffs and then going back to sucking for 5 years? What team in the league wants that? You think some magical ***** will occur because they sneak in one year, like some special switch will flip in their brains and suddenly they won't be able to miss! What garbage. They keep missing because they have trash gms, 4th rate coaching, and league average drafting. 

Montreal made the playoffs, let's see if they do again, otherwise everything you wrote here is worth less than used toilet paper. 

 

Depends what you used it for...................

I'm not moving any goalposts, I'm just scoring touchdowns as well as field goals. 

You don't understand hockey culture plain and simple. No point in having that argument with you as you won't get it ever. Winning is infectious and a taste leads to more success. You want to keep striving to draft top 10 as the answer you keep at it, you will be a happy Sabres fan. Coaching is not good, but if you think that's all it'll take you are sadly mistaken. 

[PerreaultForever]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Every ***** NHL team you could say this about. It's been 14 years, everyone has a better and faster rebuild. 

What's next, "ice is cold" or "Josh Allen wears 17" 

Wow, enlightening. 

In your stubbornness you miss the point. That is to look at what has worked and to do that instead of this. Sabres never seem to get it, because Pegula doesn't get it. He's just like you. Look at the analytics, keep drafting talent based on analytics and eventually you have to win. It just doesn't work that way and that's why we will never win until they put a hockey guy who gets it in charge (which Pegula won't). 

We all should have walked out the door with Pat LaFontaine. He knew. We were stupid. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

In your stubbornness you miss the point. That is to look at what has worked and to do that instead of this. Sabres never seem to get it, because Pegula doesn't get it. He's just like you. Look at the analytics, keep drafting talent based on analytics and eventually you have to win. It just doesn't work that way and that's why we will never win until they put a hockey guy who gets it in charge (which Pegula won't). 

We all should have walked out the door with Pat LaFontaine. He knew. We were stupid. 

You're a condescending person.

You failed repeatedly to use reading comprehension and your analytic comments are ignorant beyond belief. 

Bye Felicia.