2025 NHL Entry Draft Thread, Sabres Draft 9th

[kas23]

I’d stay aware from Bear as well. Players with Achilles injuries don’t have a good record of fully recovering. Is he going to be the same player as before? And this opinion may be colored by what we say ourselves last season, but for a team who hasn’t played a playoff game in 14 years, why pick a question mark? We don’t have the luxury of lottery tickets, especially for a player like Bear. If we want a player of his intensity, trade for one. 

[inkman]

16 minutes ago, kas23 said:

I’d stay aware from Bear as well. Players with Achilles injuries don’t have a good record of fully recovering. Is he going to be the same player as before? And this opinion may be colored by what we say ourselves last season, but for a team who hasn’t played a playoff game in 14 years, why pick a question mark? We don’t have the luxury of lottery tickets, especially for a player like Bear. If we want a player of his intensity, trade for one. 

The Sabres seem fairly adept at removing all players with an ounce of intensity from their organization. Even when they acquire those types of players, they realize no one in the organization cares so they assimilate like the little borg creatures they are.  I don’t have to get punched in the face to make $7 mill a year, sweet, sign me up.  The Sabres have created a culture of indifference.   No one else cares, so why should I.  The last people to realize it are the fans. We care 1000x what any current player, coach or GM does.  

[LGR4GM]

34 minutes ago, inkman said:

The Sabres seem fairly adept at removing all players with an ounce of intensity from their organization. Even when they acquire those types of players, they realize no one in the organization cares so they assimilate like the little borg creatures they are.  I don’t have to get punched in the face to make $7 mill a year, sweet, sign me up.  The Sabres have created a culture of indifference.   No one else cares, so why should I.  The last people to realize it are the fans. We care 1000x what any current player, coach or GM does.  

Zach Benson didn't and never will. 

The problem the Sabres and frankly this place have had for over a decade is two fold. First, size equals grit or physicality. It doesn't and it never will. Second, that you can just teach guys to be physical. Sure maybe some guys but the attitude of F you that some players possess isn't taught. The Sabres to their mild credit have finally started to put together that some guys are just built that way. They need more of them. Bear, Martin, McQueen. To go along with Benson, Helenius, Zeimer. Dudes that will muck it up and come back for more. 

Less Nylander and Power and more Benson and... I guess Novikov cuz the Sabres D corp outside Dahlin doesn't have it. 

[LGR4GM]

The Sabres need to draft more ***** stirrers. 

[inkman]

45 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The Sabres need to draft more ***** stirrers. 

I’m leery of Brady Martin still being there at 9.  If I was drafting 5-8, he’d be my target. 

[DarthEbriate]

16 minutes ago, inkman said:

I’m leery of Brady Martin still being there at 9.  If I was drafting 5-8, he’d be my target. 

It all depends on McQueen and whether a team really likes a defenseman not named Schaefer.

[LGR4GM]

18 minutes ago, inkman said:

I’m leery of Brady Martin still being there at 9.  If I was drafting 5-8, he’d be my target. 

Hmm. Idk, I think Frondell and Desnoyers are really liked by teams. McQueen, Smith are wild cards. It could happen, his U18 performance was dominate so maybe Martin does go early. Really is awful we dropped 2 more spots. 

[LGR4GM]

 

 

[inkman]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

 

Of course they have the Flyers taking Martin. Sigh.  The worst case scenario, which means it’s most likely to happen, is that they take the least intense / physical player on the board with Martin still available.  

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

 

1. Schaefer 

2. Misa

3. Frondell 

4. Desnoyers 

5. Hagens

6. Martin

7. O'Brien 

8. Martone 

9. McQueen 

10. Mrtka

16 minutes ago, inkman said:

Of course they have the Flyers taking Martin. Sigh.  The worst case scenario, which means it’s most likely to happen, is that they take the least intense / physical player on the board with Martin still available.  

Unlikely impo. I think McQueen makes a ton of sense because they are very aware of the guys they have.

[DarthEbriate]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

9. McQueen 

Unlikely impo. I think McQueen makes a ton of sense because they are very aware of the guys they have.

This draft selection has the scent of, "Buffalo has TNT, so of course they'd go for another super-tall shooting center -- imagine if they had two of them" and not the realization that the Sabres have already moved TNT to the wing.

I'm thinking the Sabres are scared by the back injury (Eichel Redux!) and it's a different team that looks at McQueen and says to themselves, "There's an injury risk, but maybe we can have our own TNT."

Edited 4 hours ago by DarthEbriate

[Flashsabre]

There is a lot of chatter picking up that the Islanders will strongly consider Hagens with the first pick. He’s local and grew up right by the arena in Long Island. 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

1. Schaefer 

2. Misa

3. Frondell 

4. Desnoyers 

5. Hagens

6. Martin

7. O'Brien 

8. Martone 

9. McQueen 

10. Mrtka

Unlikely impo. I think McQueen makes a ton of sense because they are very aware of the guys they have.

 

29 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

This draft selection has the scent of, "Buffalo has TNT, so of course they'd go for another super-tall shooting center -- imagine if they had two of them" and not the realization that the Sabres have already moved TNT to the wing.

I'm thinking the Sabres are scared by the back injury (Eichel Redux!) and it's a different team that looks at TNT and says to themselves, "There's an injruy risk, but maybe we can have our own TNT."

I have no idea what the Sabres think of McQueen’s health, but if this is the way the top 8 drops, McQueen at 9 makes a mountain of sense in terms of upside and need.

Like most of you, I think Martin would be ideal, but I would be good with this.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Flashsabre said:

There is a lot of chatter picking up that the Islanders will strongly consider Hagens with the first pick. He’s local and grew up right by the arena in Long Island. 

Tavares left, they have that in their minds. 

[shrader]

10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Tavares left, they have that in their minds. 

If they actually operate like that, they’ll be joining us in the long term playoff drought bus. 

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, shrader said:

If they actually operate like that, they’ll be joining us in the long term playoff drought bus. 

Hard to tell how they'll operate without a GM. They could trade back to 3 and still get Hagens. No idea what a trade like that would look like. 

[shrader]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Hard to tell how they'll operate without a GM. They could trade back to 3 and still get Hagens. No idea what a trade like that would look like. 

All I can think is “we want guys who want to be here”. It’s a fool proof approach. 

[SabreFinn]

31 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Hard to tell how they'll operate without a GM. They could trade back to 3 and still get Hagens. No idea what a trade like that would look like. 

Both Chicago and San Jose has two picks in the first round, would they give them away to choose first?

[...]

6 hours ago, kas23 said:

I’d stay aware from Bear as well. Players with Achilles injuries don’t have a good record of fully recovering. Is he going to be the same player as before? And this opinion may be colored by what we say ourselves last season, but for a team who hasn’t played a playoff game in 14 years, why pick a question mark? We don’t have the luxury of lottery tickets, especially for a player like Bear. If we want a player of his intensity, trade for one. 

 

Based on recent studies specifically looking at NHL players and Achilles tendon ruptures, the picture regarding recovery rates is more nuanced than a simple "poor record."

Here's a breakdown of the findings:

High Rate of Return to Play: Studies indicate a high rate of return to play (RTP) for NHL players after Achilles tendon repair. One study found that 14 out of 15 NHL players (93%) with Achilles tendon tears returned to play. Another older study reported a 78.9% RTP rate.  

Performance Impact: While the RTP rate is high, the impact on performance is where the nuance lies.

Some recent research suggests no significant change in offensive, defensive, or overall performance-based metrics when comparing pre-injury performance to performance in the first and second years post-injury for those who returned.  

However, other studies on professional athletes across multiple sports (including NHL) have sometimes shown a decrease in games played, play time, and performance metrics in the first year or two after return, although performance might normalize closer to pre-injury levels by the second year post-injury for those who successfully return long-term. There's also evidence suggesting a bimodal distribution – some players don't return to their prior level, while others can perform comparably to uninjured players after two years.

Comparison to Other Sports: NHL players appear to have a higher RTP rate after Achilles rupture compared to players in sports like the NBA and NFL, where rates of failure to return to play have been reported to be significantly higher (e.g., 20-30% or more).

Timeframe for Recovery: Recovery is consistently described as a long and arduous process, typically taking several months (at least three to five months, sometimes longer) before returning to on-ice activities, even with surgical repair and rigorous rehabilitation.

In conclusion: While the statement that "players with Achilles injuries don’t have a good record of fully recovering" holds true in a general sense across professional sports, recent data specifically on the NHL suggests a high likelihood of players returning to play. The question of whether they fully recover to their exact pre-injury performance level is where studies show varying results, with some suggesting performance returns to baseline after a couple of years, while others indicate potential long-term impacts or a portion of players never quite getting back to their previous form.

Therefore, while many NHL players do successfully return, the concern raised in the paragraph about a player being a "question mark" regarding their same level of performance as before the injury is a valid one, despite the relatively high return-to-play rate in hockey compared to some other sports.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, SabreFinn said:

Both Chicago and San Jose has two picks in the first round, would they give them away to choose first?

I don't think SJ would. If Chicago thinks Misa is really good, I could see it. They'd have to jump sj at minimum. 

 

[shrader]

1 hour ago, ... said:

 

Based on recent studies specifically looking at NHL players and Achilles tendon ruptures, the picture regarding recovery rates is more nuanced than a simple "poor record."

Here's a breakdown of the findings:

High Rate of Return to Play: Studies indicate a high rate of return to play (RTP) for NHL players after Achilles tendon repair. One study found that 14 out of 15 NHL players (93%) with Achilles tendon tears returned to play. Another older study reported a 78.9% RTP rate.  

Performance Impact: While the RTP rate is high, the impact on performance is where the nuance lies.

Some recent research suggests no significant change in offensive, defensive, or overall performance-based metrics when comparing pre-injury performance to performance in the first and second years post-injury for those who returned.  

However, other studies on professional athletes across multiple sports (including NHL) have sometimes shown a decrease in games played, play time, and performance metrics in the first year or two after return, although performance might normalize closer to pre-injury levels by the second year post-injury for those who successfully return long-term. There's also evidence suggesting a bimodal distribution – some players don't return to their prior level, while others can perform comparably to uninjured players after two years.

Comparison to Other Sports: NHL players appear to have a higher RTP rate after Achilles rupture compared to players in sports like the NBA and NFL, where rates of failure to return to play have been reported to be significantly higher (e.g., 20-30% or more).

Timeframe for Recovery: Recovery is consistently described as a long and arduous process, typically taking several months (at least three to five months, sometimes longer) before returning to on-ice activities, even with surgical repair and rigorous rehabilitation.

In conclusion: While the statement that "players with Achilles injuries don’t have a good record of fully recovering" holds true in a general sense across professional sports, recent data specifically on the NHL suggests a high likelihood of players returning to play. The question of whether they fully recover to their exact pre-injury performance level is where studies show varying results, with some suggesting performance returns to baseline after a couple of years, while others indicate potential long-term impacts or a portion of players never quite getting back to their previous form.

Therefore, while many NHL players do successfully return, the concern raised in the paragraph about a player being a "question mark" regarding their same level of performance as before the injury is a valid one, despite the relatively high return-to-play rate in hockey compared to some other sports.

And these studies probably don't even apply to Bear.  They're based on adult NHL players and we're talking about an injury in a still growing teenager.  He's outside of the scope of that work.

[LGR4GM]

16 minutes ago, shrader said:

And these studies probably don't even apply to Bear.  They're based on adult NHL players and we're talking about an injury in a still growing teenager.  He's outside of the scope of that work.

He didn't have an Achilles rupture either. It was cut by a skate. 

Good news is at 9, he's still another yr in Jr's and an ahl season away at minimum. 

[DarthEbriate]

3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I have no idea what the Sabres think of McQueen’s health, but if this is the way the top 8 drops, McQueen at 9 makes a mountain of sense in terms of upside and need.

Like most of you, I think Martin would be ideal, but I would be good with this.

If the Sabres were a good playoff team that held the 9th overall by trade/happenstance, yup, go for it.

But they are not. He had the back fracture injury, then returned this season only to have a separate lower-body injury which he suffered an additional setback. Norris is already going to miss at least 20 games per season; the Sabres can't afford to have this pick turn into only a "what if".

https://rg.org/news/hockey/how-roger-mcqueen-could-be-a-steal-at-the-2025-nhl-draft

Personally, I skip him in the first round.

[LGR4GM]

3 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

If the Sabres were a good playoff team that held the 9th overall by trade/happenstance, yup, go for it.

But they are not. He had the back fracture injury, then returned this season only to have a separate lower-body injury which he suffered an additional setback. Norris is already going to miss at least 20 games per season; the Sabres can't afford to have this pick turn into only a "what if".

https://rg.org/news/hockey/how-roger-mcqueen-could-be-a-steal-at-the-2025-nhl-draft

Personally, I skip him in the first round.

I'm unsure what his current injury is. I think it's separate from his stress fracture. 

The thing is, a healthy McQueen might have been in the running for 1st overall. You'd have to really dig into those medicals because 6'5" centers with his package of skills are rare. 

[shrader]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

He didn't have an Achilles rupture either. It was cut by a skate. 

Good news is at 9, he's still another yr in Jr's and an ahl season away at minimum. 

I wonder how different the two actually are.  Paging @Brawndo, @Brawndo you have a call on the white courtesy phone.