Does Pegula Have Any Pride?

[LabattBlue]

Only one word for Terry…

 

SELL!!!!!!

[Sabre The Cup]

I think he’s just all in on the Bills. NFL teams are extremely expensive and the Sabres are in budget mode because of it. The spending stopped once he bought the Bills. 

Why won’t he sell? I don’t know. I think he just doesn’t have to. He’s in Florida and doesn’t have to deal with the questions and complaints. 

[PASabreFan]

57 minutes ago, Cranky old man said:

I’m sure change from savior to hated absentee owner must be quite perplexing for Pegs. The guy has dropped a but ton of money into the sabres over the last 13. He hired experienced guys, and they failed. Now he has inexperienced guys he knows and they aren’t getting it done fast enough. He plans a partnership with his wife and catastrophe strikes. I don’t see an uncaring man. I see a guy who has tried to do well by Buffalo and the Sabres are the one horror among many successes. I don’t minimize it but, assassinating his character because he feels the need to make money while owning sports teams is garbage. I’m a thousandaire, and I value money, watch what I spend. No doubt it is the same for him. How about we don’t assume that we know this guy just because he has some bucks. Personally I hate class warfare I hear on these pages sometimes. 
 

 

 

 

What experienced guys?

57 minutes ago, Cranky old man said:

I’m sure change from savior to hated absentee owner must be quite perplexing for Pegs. The guy has dropped a but ton of money into the sabres over the last 13. He hired experienced guys, and they failed. Now he has inexperienced guys he knows and they aren’t getting it done fast enough. He plans a partnership with his wife and catastrophe strikes. I don’t see an uncaring man. I see a guy who has tried to do well by Buffalo and the Sabres are the one horror among many successes. I don’t minimize it but, assassinating his character because he feels the need to make money while owning sports teams is garbage. I’m a thousandaire, and I value money, watch what I spend. No doubt it is the same for him. How about we don’t assume that we know this guy just because he has some bucks. Personally I hate class warfare I hear on these pages sometimes. 
 

 

 

 

What experienced guys?

[#freejame]

22 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

What experienced guys?

What experienced guys?

Craig Patrick...duh!

[Cranky old man]

Murray and Botterall both came the Sens and Pens respectively. While neither was a GM at the time of hire, they were considered up and comers. Their coaches—-Dan Bylsma and Ted Nolan both won the Jack Adams Award before they were hired or re-hired in Nolan’s case. How many of us cheered when Nolan was rehired? I did. Krueger and Housley were not poorly regarded hires. Their team performances were terrible. By that time Pegs was reactive. He started over with someone he knew KA. Am I mad ? Yes  pissed about another playoff blank. But let’s not reinvent history here. 

[xzy89c1]

The amount of money lost as owner of sabres leaves him not caring. That is the heart of the matter. Losing 10 to 20 million, or more, a year before COVID hit.

I don't think he is bad guy, he is just tired of losing that much money.

He has received terrible advice over the years that he has chosen to follow. He has hired awful hockey executives who have made the team worse year after year. He needs an experienced hockey person good at organizational building as president of sabres. Revamp all the facets of hockey department.

Instead he hired a COO for bills/sabres who cannot help the products.

I fear for future of Sabres. Not sure how they stay long term. Economics of Buffalo are bad, and population is dropping. People not attending games for good reason. 

[xzy89c1]

13 hours ago, Cranky old man said:

Murray and Botterall both came the Sens and Pens respectively. While neither was a GM at the time of hire, they were considered up and comers. Their coaches—-Dan Bylsma and Ted Nolan both won the Jack Adams Award before they were hired or re-hired in Nolan’s case. How many of us cheered when Nolan was rehired? I did. Krueger and Housley were not poorly regarded hires. Their team performances were terrible. By that time Pegs was reactive. He started over with someone he knew KA. Am I mad ? Yes  pissed about another playoff blank. But let’s not reinvent history here. 

Murray was not considered up and comer. Somehow dazzled in interview. He was alcoholic as well. If any investigation was done that would have come up... When i asked a scout about him in Tampa when he was hired he said he drinks. A lot. 

Botts hired Kruger and never overcame that. 

[#freejame]

Honest question—in terms of % of annual income who spends more on the Sabres the average season ticket holder or Pegula?

Terry Pegula spending $20M of his own money on an asset that has more than doubled in value isn’t some noble expenditure, especially when he’s got a $6.1B net worth. 

[PASabreFan]

5 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Honest question—in terms of % of annual income who spends more on the Sabres the average season ticket holder or Pegula?

Terry Pegula spending $20M of his own money on an asset that has more than doubled in value isn’t some noble expenditure, especially when he’s got a $6.1B net worth. 

Do not fear and loathe the rich!

[Flashsabre]

If Pegula is tired of losing money then he should sell and gain a financial windfall. That explanation holds no water with me.

0 for 13 as an owner, the GM had no front office experience, coach no NHL head coaching experience.  
 

It’s not going to get any better until Terry sells.

[Mango]

19 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

To think anyone knows Terry Pegula is laughable.  It appears he's a guy that keeps a low profile.  His daughter is one of the best women's tennis players in the world and to my knowledge I've never seen him.  Yet posters know what he's all about,  what he's thinking and how he feels about the Sabres?  

Terry has been kicking around Buffalo circles for some time. Well before he bought the Sabres. Jerry Forton's brother-in-law is Terry's business manager in oil and gas. Jerry has always been very plugged in in Buffalo, his wife is an event planner who has been managing all the Jim Kelly and Ryan Miller events for decades.

The relationship goes so far back that I always assumed Jim Kelly's decade long blubbering before Ralph died about "assembling a buying group" was Terry Pegula. 

Terry is a trained in oil and gas, not in people management. There is this constant take that he must be good at business, or people, or whatever because he amassed fortune. He amassed fortune by finding natural gas. He has another business partner (not employee, but partner) who manages people, structure, etc. 

 

Edited April 1 by Mango

[7+6=13]

53 minutes ago, Mango said:

Terry has been kicking around Buffalo circles for some time. Well before he bought the Sabres. Jerry Forton's brother-in-law is Terry's business manager in oil and gas. Jerry has always been very plugged in in Buffalo, his wife is an event planner who has been managing all the Jim Kelly and Ryan Miller events for decades.

The relationship goes so far back that I always assumed Jim Kelly's decade long blubbering before Ralph died about "assembling a buying group" was Terry Pegula. 

Terry is a trained in oil and gas, not in people management. There is this constant take that he must be good at business, or people, or whatever because he amassed fortune. He amassed fortune by finding natural gas. He has another business partner (not employee, but partner) who manages people, structure, etc. 

 

That's good information and I've read it before,  possibly from you or SS.  

I just don't see how it gives us much insite as interestingasitis.  Would you agree that we know very little about Terry's involvement,  thoughts and motives are?  We just don't hear much from him.  

I get that frustration leads to fans having wild opinions but I stand by my post.  

[Mango]

15 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

That's good information and I've read it before,  possibly from you or SS.  

I just don't see how it gives us much insite as interestingasitis.  Would you agree that we know very little about Terry's involvement,  thoughts and motives are?  We just don't hear much from him.  

I get that frustration leads to fans having wild opinions but I stand by my post.  

We don't really "know" anybody on the internet, or any professional athletes, or any billionaires at all. 

We can certainly make some educated guesses based on local interactions, interviews and decisions regarding the franchise.

- We know for a fact that Terry likes to meddle. It has been questioned and defended by Terry across nearly every hockey hire he has made.
- We know he would rather make a decisions himself rather than professional consensus; he literally said owners thought he was crazy for the Ville Leino deal.
- We know that this organization has a toxic work culture. That has been been said since before the pandemic.
- We know the Sabres model is all about economics, efficiency, his family lifestyle and tax breaks. This is a definitive shift from when he bought the team.

Most importantly we know that Terry is really, really, really, really bad at being the owner of an NHL team. Like historically bad. We also know that his greatest successes in business come as an engineer/geologist, not as a people manager. So it isn't crazy to be on an internet message board and attribute bad leadership qualities to somebody who has shown to be.....a historically terrible  leader. Some may be more accurate than others, but most are likely not super far off base. 

 

[Mango]

On 3/31/2024 at 11:07 AM, Cascade Youth said:

3.  Preserve Our Lifestyle

[insert picture of yacht]

Always worth mentioning that "taxes" were written right next to "lifestyle". 

[PASabreFan]

We also know the Sabres are ham handed in their PR. Terry is getting terrible advice from someone about not speaking out about the team. Into that vacuum flows lots of terrible assumptions about him. Unless there's a wild card reason he won't speak (dementia for example), it really doesn't make any sense. Usually one would say we don't need to hear from the owner. This is an extraordinary situation. That said he made a terrible joke referencing the mayor's skin color and perhaps got burned making a racist comment to a reporter at a dinner party. He also had pretty loose lips in his early days as owner. The Leino quip Mango mentions was made when he called into WGR while out driving with his dog (Sidney, yuck). So maybe he just vowed to shut up. He hates the media too. Still... Talk to us, TP.

[Mango]

I was at this game and this moment has always stuck with me. Bills fans spent a decade scared and wondering what would happen to the Bills when an aging Ralph Wilson passed. 

Terry's first words to a cheering packed house were  "OK guys, that's enough". It was a very heavy wet blanket for us in our section. 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/watch-terry-pegula-on-field-ceremony-13989551

[PASabreFan]

11 minutes ago, Mango said:

I was at this game and this moment has always stuck with me. Bills fans spent a decade scared and wondering what would happen to the Bills when an aging Ralph Wilson passed. 

Terry's first words to a cheering packed house were  "OK guys, that's enough". It was a very heavy wet blanket for us in our section. 

https://www.buffalobills.com/video/watch-terry-pegula-on-field-ceremony-13989551

On Rick's night he was very anxious for the crowd to shut up. The crowd wouldn't. He even looked over at Kim who must have said something like, "Just talk, they'll stop." You could easily read his lips. "They won't." I do wonder if getting booed on that night was the last straw for Terry as benevolent owner.

[Mango]

30 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

On Rick's night he was very anxious for the crowd to shut up. The crowd wouldn't. He even looked over at Kim who must have said something like, "Just talk, they'll stop." You could easily read his lips. "They won't." I do wonder if getting booed on that night was the last straw for Terry as benevolent owner.

I don't think he even showed up for the memorial service they did for him either. Kim's health issues are a valid reason, but it was odd he was a call in, hold the phone up to the mic, type speaker. Even if he was in the middle of something, it is weird he wasn't plugged into the arena's AV. 

It is almost as if he is in charge of a professional hockey team that misspells their alumni jerseys. 

[ExWNYer]

18 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

On Rick's night he was very anxious for the crowd to shut up. The crowd wouldn't. He even looked over at Kim who must have said something like, "Just talk, they'll stop." You could easily read his lips. "They won't." I do wonder if getting booed on that night was the last straw for Terry as benevolent owner.

To the bolded, I don't know whether it was or wasn't but one thing is abundantly clear...he's either obtuse, doesn't really care all that much about winning, or is a flat out liar. The day he bought the Sabres, he smugly declared, "Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres’ reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup” and “I want to run the team to win the Stanley Cup. If I want to make some money, I’ll go drill a gas well.” Well, here we are 13 years into his self-proclaimed "reason for existence" and not only has this organization not won a Stanley Cup, it has not even made the playoffs once in that baker's dozen of seasons. With each passing year, he and this franchise continue to make embarrassing NHL history and slide into the abyss. If he's incapable of making his vision happen then he should take his sizable profit, sell, and sail off into the sunset.

I doubt there are many people who weren't grateful when he bought both the Sabres & Bills but, at some point, the honeymoon ends and results are expected. Fans spend their hard earned money and time on tickets, pay-per-view platforms (ESPN+, Center Ice), merchandise, travel, & accommodations all to support his team. To not expect them to voice their concern over a once proud and beloved franchise is unrealistic on Pegula's part. If he didn't want to talk about his franchise(s) or deal with boos and criticism, then he never should have bought. Fans want a reason to love him but he has instead pushed them away. Winning cures all, Terry, and with it comes the money and adoration you so dearly crave.

[bunomatic]

44 minutes ago, ExWNYer said:

To the bolded, I don't know whether it was or wasn't but one thing is abundantly clear...he's either obtuse, doesn't really care all that much about winning, or is a flat out liar. The day he bought the Sabres, he smugly declared, "Starting today, the Buffalo Sabres’ reason for existence will be to win a Stanley Cup” and “I want to run the team to win the Stanley Cup. If I want to make some money, I’ll go drill a gas well.” Well, here we are 13 years into his self-proclaimed "reason for existence" and not only has this organization not won a Stanley Cup, it has not even made the playoffs once in that baker's dozen of seasons. With each passing year, he and this franchise continue to make embarrassing NHL history and slide into the abyss. If he's incapable of making his vision happen then he should take his sizable profit, sell, and sail off into the sunset.

I doubt there are many people who weren't grateful when he bought both the Sabres & Bills but, at some point, the honeymoon ends and results are expected. Fans spend their hard earned money and time on tickets, pay-per-view platforms (ESPN+, Center Ice), merchandise, travel, & accommodations all to support his team. To not expect them to voice their concern over a once proud and beloved franchise is unrealistic on Pegula's part. If he didn't want to talk about his franchise(s) or deal with boos and criticism, then he never should have bought. Fans want a reason to love him but he has instead pushed them away. Winning cures all, Terry, and with it comes the money and adoration you so dearly crave.

Honestly he comes across much like that other twit, King 
Charles. The arrogance towards the paying customer whom helps him afford his lifestyle while paying to see literally the worst ran franchise in almost all of sport. Get a grip 
Terry. For gawds sake sell sell sell.

[mjd1001]

Does he have any Pride?  He has MORE desire to have rose pedals thrown at his feet by his employees than he does have pride to make tough decisions or put people in place in his organization that will make decisions he doesn't personally like.

To be honest, I (and probably most people) have really no idea what kind of owner he is, how involved he is in the 'on the ice' product..any of that.

So anything I think/say is little more than a guess.

With that said, I am 'guessing' he isn't a good owner and a lot of the issues here are his fault.  I get the impression he meddles around the edges a LOT.  Erhoff and Ville Leino, it seemed like a lot of smoke he insisted on those signings (I think Erhoff, one of his kids admitted Pegula wanted him, not so much management) and they were overpays.  Skinner, I get the impression from a lot of 'chatter', Pegula wanted/was responsible for the trade (not a bad trade) and the extension (not a good extension). The Lafontaine/Ted Black/Tim Murray/ other personal fiascos....if he wasn't responsible for them he was involved.  I remember an interview years ago during Bills training camp, he would insist on sitting in on the coaching meetings, he said himself he didn't give his opinion alot but he DID ask a lot of questions (I'm sure the coaches LOVED the owner sitting on on many of their meetings and interrupting with frequent questions about stuff he didn't know about).  So yeah....

Does he have the right do do any/all of that? As the owner he sure does. But I'm also guessing it doesn't make a good work environment for many coaches/management guys.  Also, with the Sabres it SEEMS he didn't just want decisions run by him, but rather he wanted input into hockey related decisions.  And finally, the Kevin Adams hire...I like Adams (still, lets see how I feel in another year or two), but the hire seemed less like the 'best guy for the job' or even the 'best available guy for the job who would take it'...and more like someone Terry was comfortable around...someone who would talk to Terry and give him the attention he thought he wanted or deserved.  

The saying goes, it starts from the top down.  With the Sabres, I really REALLY do feel like Pegula just not being a good owner in a ton of small ways has infected this franchise and that infection has spread over the last decade+.

I'm pretty sure he wants to win.  But, it seems to me he wants to be comforable with those around him more than winning (he doesn't want any conflict directed toward him and he wants his ego massaged and he wants to feel included).  Its almost he would rather lose and have THAT than to win and even think its possible, if only in his own mind, to be told 'get the hell out of our meetings' by those who work for him.

One thing I think is true....no owner ever took over a franchise and was owner for this long and had a WORSE impact on the franchise compared to anyone that came before him. Probably true for all of the major north American sports.  The speach where he said the goal of the Sabres is nothing else but to win a Stanley cup...and then to follow that with EVERY SINGLE FULL SEASON he was owner of the team to the the worst stretch of not even making the playoffs in the HISTORY of the sport...it is laughable.

Edited April 1 by mjd1001

[wingnut]

After reading the last few posts (a lot of news to me) - what if KA really is/could be a good GM, just not under this ownership LOL

[bunomatic]

48 minutes ago, wingnut said:

After reading the last few posts (a lot of news to me) - what if KA really is/could be a good GM, just not under this ownership LOL

I don’t think KA would have gotten the opportunity to be a g.m. From any other owner. He’s essentially the waterboy who worked his way into a position he had no busness being in. That being said in some aspects he’s done ok and in others( such as team building and culture ) he hasn’t.

[mjd1001]

58 minutes ago, wingnut said:

After reading the last few posts (a lot of news to me) - what if KA really is/could be a good GM, just not under this ownership LOL

I beleive that.  I also think Granato is a pretty darn good development coach and might be a good coach overall. However, Its hard to know that with what might be going on from the top down.   I'll give into the fact that if Granato is back next year and the team starts out terrible, then fine, fire him. But 2 things:  Who that is better are you going to get to take the job?  And whoever you get to take the job, are they going to be working under less than ideal conditions and will you get the best from them?

[jad1]

29 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

I beleive that.  I also think Granato is a pretty darn good development coach and might be a good coach overall. However, Its hard to know that with what might be going on from the top down.   I'll give into the fact that if Granato is back next year and the team starts out terrible, then fine, fire him. But 2 things:  Who that is better are you going to get to take the job?  And whoever you get to take the job, are they going to be working under less than ideal conditions and will you get the best from them?

Nah, Granato is bad.  He's the sixth longest tenured coach in the league right now.  What are we going to learn next year that we already don't know about him?

He's looked good in comparison to Krueger, but that's a low bar.  

I'd rather role the dice with the unknown than spend another year of failure with Granato.  The same goes with Adams.