Greenway on the market ?

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, seer775 said:

More picks and more prospects. We need a lot of ready pieces and none of which are going to be cheap.

We need 1-2 solid NHL Dmen. We need a goalie. That might cost upwards of 9 guys.

Greenway is at best a fourth liner with pk minutes. At worst, an AHL player. Trade him while he's worth something. Replace him with an up and comer who can use the minutes. 

Unlikely. You don't fill all that via trade because you couldn't and I'd bet money Adams is not goalie shopping. 1 of the D we need is a 5th defender, that's like a 3rd round pick maybe. The other defender we need is like Savoie and 50% olofsson retained because we have Dahlin which means we don't need a #1. 

There is literally no one in Rochester to replace him with. 

Trading nhl players under contract for picks is the last thing this team should be doing. Idk why anyone would care if Greenway was on the 4th line. It would be an improvement over Zemgus and Greenway can slide up the lineup as needed. It's called depth, it's what real nhl teams do. 

[SABRES 0311]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Where do you see Greenway playing for Buffalo next season?

TNT, Skinner, Tuch, Cozens, JJP, Quinn, and Benson are all top 9 forwards under contract.  When Mitts is re-signed that’s 8 top 9 forwards.  Now if one of Rosen, Kulich or Savoie make the Sabres, the 9 top 9 forwards.  That relegates Greenway to the 4th line.  Is it worth paying Greenway $3 mill to be a 4th liner?  

What if trading Greenway helps get us a 2 way center or a top 4 D, I think KA would have to consider it especially if he believes Greenway to destined to be a 4th line player next season.

That’s assuming all of those nine will be on the team next year. Defense needs to be improved. Some of those nine could help.

[seer775]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Unlikely. You don't fill all that via trade because you couldn't and I'd bet money Adams is not goalie shopping. 1 of the D we need is a 5th defender, that's like a 3rd round pick maybe. The other defender we need is like Savoie and 50% olofsson retained because we have Dahlin which means we don't need a #1. 

There is literally no one in Rochester to replace him with. 

Trading nhl players under contract for picks is the last thing this team should be doing. Idk why anyone would care if Greenway was on the 4th line. It would be an improvement over Zemgus and Greenway can slide up the lineup as needed. It's called depth, it's what real nhl teams do. 

Couldn't is a dirty word. You most certainly could find 2 competent Dmen on the trade market. Teams trade for depth DMen all the time (Zadorov, McCabe, Orlov, Montour, etc). 

A competent top 4 defender is worth much more than a fourth liner. Ours play minimum 25% more minutes per game including the pp and pk.

KA should be looking for depth Dmen because Joker and EJ are going to need replacing. Also, we have enough young forwards in the AHL to cycle into the 4th line when it's time to test them out. 

It happens that some teams, like the Canucks, are looking to add size. By moving Greenway, who is a UFA in 2 years, we can get some assets to apply to the acquisition of a depth defender, so why wouldn't we?

Sell Greenway for a 2nd, a 5th, and a prospect (or better). Target an RFA and a UFA on defense.

RFAs: Boqvist, Seider, Bouchard, Byram.

UFAs: Barrie, Montour, Chycrun (trade), Matheson (trade), etc.

Edited January 9 by seer775

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, seer775 said:

Couldn't is a dirty word. You most certainly could find 2 competent Dmen on the trade market. Teams trade for depth DMen all the time (Zadorov, McCabe, Orlov, Montour, etc). 

A competent top 4 defender is worth much more than a fourth liner. Ours play minimum 25% more minutes per game including the pp and pk.

KA should be looking for depth Dmen because Joker and EJ are going to need replacing. Also, we have enough young forwards in the AHL to cycle into the 4th line when it's time to test them out. 

It happens that some teams, like the Canucks, are looking to add size. By moving Greenway, who is a UFA in 2 years, we can get some assets to apply to the acquisition of a depth defender, so why wouldn't we?

Sell Greenway for a 2nd, a 5th, and a prospect (or better). Target an RFA and a UFA on defense.

RFAs: Boqvist, Seider, Bouchard, Byram.

UFAs: Barrie, Montour, Chycrun (trade), Matheson (trade), etc.

None of the players in Rochester have shown an ounce of being able to do what Greenway does. WTF do we need another 2nd and 5th round pick and some ***** prospect that no one gives a ***** about when you in this very post say "we have enough young forwards in the AHL"? This is how not to build a team 101, draft a bazillion guys over 3 years and then turn around and trade an NHL player who is useful to your team so you can get more draft picks and prospects. We already have assets to get a #4 defender who typically cost at most a 2nd and a prospect. What a ***** waste of time this would be. 

We aren't trading for any of the UFA's you listed because lol, that doesn't make sense and Adams certainly will feel that way.

Boqvist is Jokiharju with a different name and potentially not as good, no. Bouchard you literally can't trade for unless you wanna ship out Power or Cozens. Seider... LMFAO, you think Yzerman will trade his former 6th overall pick and best defender? Are you mad? I don't mind Byram but why on earth would Colorado want to trade him? Why would they want a couple of 2nd round picks and Isak Rosen or something? They wouldn't. So out of the list of RFAs you have here, 2 are almost guaranteed to be impossible to acquire unless you want to trade Owen Power, Dylan Cozens, JJP, OR Jack Quinn (1 of them would be the starting point for a Seider or Bouchard trade and then you have to add). Boqvist isn't much of an upgrade if at all so why bother. Sure if Colorado really wanted to rebuild they could trade their 22yr old defender but I again, you'd be looking to give them a prospect and a pick they really like (think Kulich and a 2nd and probably a sweetener like Strbak). 

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

That’s assuming all of those nine will be on the team next year. Defense needs to be improved. Some of those nine could help.

Skinner has a full NTC so he isn't going anywhere. Which of Tage, Tuch, Cozens, JJP, Quinn, Mitts, and Benson are you willing to trade for defensive help? 

[Quint]

Please don't trade Greenway. That said, he sure does miss a lot of games for various reasons.

[Dreams Burn Down]

We need as much grit and sandpaper on this team as possible.  Is Greenway the second coming of Keith Primeau?  Of course not, but he's still a keeper for now.

[seer775]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

None of the players in Rochester have shown an ounce of being able to do what Greenway does. WTF do we need another 2nd and 5th round pick and some ***** prospect that no one gives a ***** about when you in this very post say "we have enough young forwards in the AHL"? This is how not to build a team 101, draft a bazillion guys over 3 years and then turn around and trade an NHL player who is useful to your team so you can get more draft picks and prospects. We already have assets to get a #4 defender who typically cost at most a 2nd and a prospect. What a ***** waste of time this would be. 

We aren't trading for any of the UFA's you listed because lol, that doesn't make sense and Adams certainly will feel that way.

Boqvist is Jokiharju with a different name and potentially not as good, no. Bouchard you literally can't trade for unless you wanna ship out Power or Cozens. Seider... LMFAO, you think Yzerman will trade his former 6th overall pick and best defender? Are you mad? I don't mind Byram but why on earth would Colorado want to trade him? Why would they want a couple of 2nd round picks and Isak Rosen or something? They wouldn't. So out of the list of RFAs you have here, 2 are almost guaranteed to be impossible to acquire unless you want to trade Owen Power, Dylan Cozens, JJP, OR Jack Quinn (1 of them would be the starting point for a Seider or Bouchard trade and then you have to add). Boqvist isn't much of an upgrade if at all so why bother. Sure if Colorado really wanted to rebuild they could trade their 22yr old defender but I again, you'd be looking to give them a prospect and a pick they really like (think Kulich and a 2nd and probably a sweetener like Strbak). 

Boqvist is a much better Dman than Joker. We absolutely are going to need to trade or sign for a UFA because EJ's contract is up in a year.

That deal for Byram is probably a good one. We have scoring. We need Defenseman. Who is going to step up and play defense?

There are plenty of RFA and UFA Dmen available to trade for. I only mentioned a few. Packaging a fourth liner to end up with a much more valuable top 4 Dman is a deal that will pay much higher than keeping said 4th liner.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, SABRES 0311 said:

That’s assuming all of those nine will be on the team next year. Defense needs to be improved. Some of those nine could help.

Which of those 9 are you trading?

Skinner, a top goal scorer, has a complete NMC and a huge contract.

Tuch is an excellent all around player when healthy on a bargain contract with a M-NTC.  He is also the poster child for “wants to be here.”

TNT is the team’s top center, top goal scorer and on a reasonable to cheap contract.

Benson, Quinn and JJP are on their ELCs and are already among our better forwards at driving offense.  

So that leaves Cozens and Mitts. The Sabres lack centers. They don’t have any near ready in the A.  Would they ditch young DC one year into a lengthy extension?  Would they trade away Mitts, who is their best 2 way forward, most versatile forward and possibly their best playmaker? 

While I agree that something has to change, I think it’s much more likely change come from moving on from picks and prospects being moved for help.  

Edited January 9 by GASabresIUFAN

[Taro T]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Which of those 9 are you trading?

Skinner, a top goal scorer, has a complete NMC and a huge contract.

Tuch is an excellent all around player when healthy on a bargain contract with a M-NTC.  He is also the poster child for “wants to be here.”

TNT is the team’s top center, top goal scorer and on a reasonable to cheap contract.

Benson, Quinn and JJP are on their ELCs and are already among our better forwards at driving offense.  

So that leaves Cozens and Mitts. The Sabres lack centers. They don’t have any near ready in the A.  Would they ditch young DC one year into a lengthy extension?  Would they trade away Mitts, who is their best 2 way forward, most versatile forward and possibly their best playmaker? 

While I agree that something has to change, I think it’s much more likely change come from moving on from picks and prospects being moved for help.  

Both of which they already have in spades.  So why would they need to trade away Greenway to get an extra (presumably) late 1st (if he'd even bring that back; he didn't cost that for the Sabres to get him)?  It makes no sense with the team sitting with nearly $9MM in cap space (which is effectively nearly $17MM in cap space at this point in the season) to be trading him away.

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Boqvist is a much better Dman than Joker. We absolutely are going to need to trade or sign for a UFA because EJ's contract is up in a year.

That deal for Byram is probably a good one. We have scoring. We need Defenseman. Who is going to step up and play defense?

There are plenty of RFA and UFA Dmen available to trade for. I only mentioned a few. Packaging a fourth liner to end up with a much more valuable top 4 Dman is a deal that will pay much higher than keeping said 4th liner.

Okay, show me some type of proof other than your word. 

You are right we will need to sign or trade for a defender this offseason. 

I am not sure this board would be happy about Kulich, 3rd round pick in 2024, and Strbak for Byram. 

Packaging Greenway to trade for a legit #3/4 defender is a good idea, trading Greenway for some picks and prospects because we might be able to flip those in some future deal for said #3/4 defender is a bad idea. We already have the ammunition to trade for a #3/4 defender without ditching a 3rd line winger who has value due to their PK and defensive abilities.  Columbus is going to have to trade a defender at some point, probably this offseason for example. Calgary will probably be trading pieces at the deadline or offseason. I have no issue with getting a #3/4 defender but trading Greenway for some stuff is a waste of assets when he actually is useful to the team. 

Edited January 9 by LGR4GM

[seer775]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Both of which they already have in spades.  So why would they need to trade away Greenway to get an extra (presumably) late 1st (if he'd even bring that back; he didn't cost that for the Sabres to get him)?  It makes no sense with the team sitting with nearly $9MM in cap space (which is effectively nearly $17MM in cap space at this point in the season) to be trading him away.

That cap space is going to disappear once we resign Quinn, JJP, Mitts, 2 dmen, and our goalies in 2 years. 

Edited January 9 by seer775

[Sabres Fan in NS]

How in the blazes does Liger have 55,000 posts ??

Really !!

Carry on ...

[LGR4GM]

Personally I don't think the Sabres top 9 is the issue. I think Tage, Cozens, and Mitts are a solid center spine. I think Tuch, Quinn, are a great rw. Skinner and JJP are good on the lw. Benson is only going to get better. Honestly, I really hope Kulich puts in the work because a line of Kulich - Mitts - Benson next year could be great but also I would rather we acquire another winger so I don't have to hope that 19yr old Benson and 20yr old Kulich are great. 

[seer775]

8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Okay, show me some type of proof other than your word. 

You are right we will need to sign or trade for a defender this offseason. 

I am not sure this board would be happy about Kulich, 3rd round pick in 2024, and Strbak for Byram. 

Packaging Greenway to trade for a legit #3/4 defender is a good idea, trading Greenway for some picks and prospects because we might be able to flip those in some future deal for said #3/4 defender is a bad idea. We already have the ammunition to trade for a #3/4 defender without ditching a 3rd line winger who has value due to their PK and defensive abilities.  Columbus is going to have to trade a defender at some point, probably this offseason for example. Calgary will probably be trading pieces at the deadline or offseason. I have no issue with getting a #3/4 defender but trading Greenway for some stuff is a waste of assets when he actually is useful to the team. 

Boqvist is a bottom 4 Dman. Joker is an AHL player.

That would be a great deal. We'd still have Östlund, Rosen, Rousek, and Savoie and we'd have a promising Dman in Byram under RFA.

I'm not sure what kind of Dman you can fetch with one or two picks, but it won't be a good deal. 

Edited January 9 by seer775

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, seer775 said:

That cap space is going to disappear once we resign Quinn, JJP, Mitts, 2 dmen, and our goalies in 2 years. 

No Schlitz, Sherlock.  A significant portion of that cap space will be gone then, but the cap will also be significantly higher then too.  So, worry about that in 2 years.  Greenway is only under contract through next season so ramifications on the cap 2 years from now have little bearing on a potential Greenway deal today.  Having a $3MM 4th liner (should they make a move to put a goal scorer on Mittelstadt's line) is NOT an issue to be concerned about.  Right NOW cap space is an asset that the Sabres can use whether it be retaining salary on a deal shipping Olofsson out the door or taking in some other team's overpaid soon to be UFA.  Just because Adams hasn't used that asset the past 2 years doesn't mean he must not use it again this year.

[GASabresIUFAN]

If I were the Sabres GM, my off-season would look something like this.

I’d move on from KO, Z, VO and Jost upfront.  I’d move on from UPL, Joki, EJ and Clifton in goal and on defense.  Trading Clifton will be hard. 

Those moves create 3 starting roster spots  at forward, 3 on defense and one in goal. Ryan Johnson earns one of the 3 D openings.  

I’d give Krebs a cheap one year prove it deal and pencil him in as the 13th forward.  I’m also ok if he is traded.

I’m putting 2 of Kulich, Rosen, Savoie and Östlund in the trade market with our top pick in 2024.  shoring up the D is the top priority with at least one proven top 4 D.  I’m also looking to add a good center or two.  My dream scenario is to get a possible 3rd line center to allow Mitts to move back to wing.  

 

 

[seer775]

1 minute ago, Taro T said:

No Schlitz, Sherlock.  A significant portion of that cap space will be gone then, but the cap will also be significantly higher then too.  So, worry about that in 2 years.  Greenway is only under contract through next season so ramifications on the cap 2 years from now have little bearing on a potential Greenway deal today.  Having a $3MM 4th liner (should they make a move to put a goal scorer on Mittelstadt's line) is NOT an issue to be concerned about.  Right NOW cap space is an asset that the Sabres can use whether it be retaining salary on a deal shipping Olofsson out the door or taking in some other team's overpaid soon to be UFA.  Just because Adams hasn't used that asset the past 2 years doesn't mean he must not use it again this year.

You gain cap space and assets by moving Greenway who is about to be a UFA anyways. 

Let's make room for our top 6 F, top 4 D, and goalies before we start thinking of overpaying for 4th liners.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Boqvist is a bottom 4 Dman. Joker is an AHL player.

That would be a great deal. We'd still have Östlund, Rosen, Rousek, and Savoie and we'd have a promising Dman under RFA.

I'm not sure what kind of Dman you can fetch with one or two picks, but it won't be a good deal. 

https://imgflip.com/i/8brtqg

[seer775]

6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

https://imgflip.com/i/8brtqg

Bruh.

80 / 188 = 0.43 pts/gm,

76 / 307 = 0.25 pts/gm.

Boqvist plays #3 minutes. Joker is at best a 4th Dman on our team.

He's at least twice the player Joker is. And he's younger.

Edited January 9 by seer775

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, seer775 said:

You gain cap space and assets by moving Greenway who is about to be a UFA anyways. 

Let's make room for our top 6 F, top 4 D, and goalies before we start thinking of overpaying for 4th liners.

LOL what? What does this even mean. The Sabres are 16million under the cap right this second, we need more for what? Our top 6 forwards are all signed through next year, every single one of them. Our top 4 defense is all signed through next year as well and we would still have money left over if we were to acquire a top 4 defender because again we have MILLIONS in cap space and will again next year. This makes no sense at all. The guy is 3mil on the cap next year when we will have 25million in cap with only 1 important RFA to sign and no UFAs we have to keep. You are spending 1mil on any 4th liner you bring in anyway so you are literally arguing we have to trade Greenway because we will need 2mil in cap space for ... what? 

[seer775]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

LOL what? What does this even mean. The Sabres are 16million under the cap right this second, we need more for what? Our top 6 forwards are all signed through next year, every single one of them. Our top 4 defense is all signed through next year as well and we would still have money left over if we were to acquire a top 4 defender because again we have MILLIONS in cap space and will again next year. This makes no sense at all. The guy is 3mil on the cap next year when we will have 25million in cap with only 1 important RFA to sign and no UFAs we have to keep. You are spending 1mil on any 4th liner you bring in anyway so you are literally arguing we have to trade Greenway because we will need 2mil in cap space for ... what? 

To sign a UFA dman, RFA dman, and have room for Quinn, Mitts, JJP, Krebs, two goalies, and protect our top picks and prospects.

That 4th liner is only going to be with us briefly, playing fourth line minutes and pk.

Spend the money and assets on players that are going to make a difference on the team. I.e top 4 D. Now is the perfect time to move Greenway for value where we are heavy in guys that can Crack a roster spot in a year or two.

Edited January 9 by seer775

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, seer775 said:

Bruh.

80 / 188 = 0.43 pts/gm,

76 / 307 = 0.25 pts/gm.

Boqvist plays #2 minutes on CBJ. Joker is at best a 4th Dman on our team.

He's at least twice the player Joker is. And he's younger.

Bruh (lol), you wanna know why Boqvist is at 0.43ppg and Joker is at 0.25ppg? Because you tell us with your very first sentence. 

Adam Boqvist, pts per 60: 1.2p/60 (2023)

Henri Jokiharju, pts per 60: 0.9p/60 (2023)

Boqvist gets more TOI and probably some better opportunities, in fact Jokihajru is actually higher at 5v5 pts/60 this season and was barely below Boqvist last year. Again, you can do this but that trade is basically Jokiharju and a 4th for Boqvist. 

[seer775]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Bruh (lol), you wanna know why Boqvist is at 0.43ppg and Joker is at 0.25ppg? Because you tell us with your very first sentence. 

Adam Boqvist, pts per 60: 1.2p/60 (2023)

Henri Jokiharju, pts per 60: 0.9p/60 (2023)

Boqvist gets more TOI and probably some better opportunities, in fact Jokihajru is actually higher at 5v5 pts/60 this season and was barely below Boqvist last year. Again, you can do this but that trade is basically Jokiharju and a 4th for Boqvist. 

An improvement nonetheless. We need better Defenseman to take the pressure off Dahlin and Power. They'll almost certainly play better as a result.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, seer775 said:

To sign a UFA dman, RFA dman, and have room for Quinn, Mitts, JJP, Krebs, two goalies, and protect our top picks and prospects.

That 4th liner is only going to be with us briefly, playing fourth line minutes and pk.

Spend the money and assets on players that are going to make a difference on the team. I.e top 4 D.

Fourth line minutes on our team are a tryout. On a playoff team, you want size, grit. We are still rebuilding.

Omg, this is annoying. Stop for a second. 

Jordan Greenway is only signed through next season at 3million dollars. After that his contract ends. Jack Quinn, JJP, Devon Levi, Ryan Johnson are all signed through next season as well so NO ONE gives a ***** about Greenway's 3 million bucks because it literally has no impact on any of those listed players. Krebs is going to get his qualifying offer and that's probably about it for his raise. Mitts can probably ask for 8mil if he wants but again, that fits under the cap easy and has no impact on keeping jordan greenway next year or signing any of the other listed players after next year. Stop spouting nonsense about having to pay players that are not up for new deals so we have to trade away Jordan Greenway. https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/sabres

If this ***** team is still rebuilding next year, I hope Adams and the lot of them are shipped to Siberia with Terry Pegula leading the way.