What role should Terry and Kim play in hiring a new coach?

[nfreeman]

12 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I don't see Ralph in that video either. Is that some sort of proof that he was never named coach of the Sabres?

No, but if a certain poster is inclined towards coming to conclusions without analyzing the facts, and if one of those conclusions is that TP is heavily involved in HC hiring decisions, and if the reason for that conclusion is that "every picture and every video of every transaction the Sabres have done in the past 10 years have Terry sitting right at the table" -- it would seem relevant that in the pressers regarding the 2 most recent HC decisions, TP is nowhere to be found.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

My point is that "what we know, have heard and read" does not in any way establish that TP's involvement in hiring coaches is greater than that of most owners. 

I was speaking to another point you made - that the Pegulas would be happily signing off on a recommendation from KA.

[That Aud Smell]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

As for KA and the next coach:  since you don't think he'll be recommending a candidate to TP and asking for TP to sign off -- what specifically do you think will happen?

I posted my thoughts on that upthread. I think KA, and maybe some others (?), will do some initial fact-finding and winnowing. I think that KA will then speak with the Pegulas about a slate of ~4-6 candidates - present what's known about them, pros, cons. And I think that the 3 of them - and maybe someone else (?) - will conduct the interviews with the candidates, and that they will then reach a consensus on who the next coach should be.

And I think my theory is in-line with what we know.

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

No, but if a certain poster is inclined towards coming to conclusions without analyzing the facts, and if one of those conclusions is that TP is heavily involved in HC hiring decisions, and if the reason for that conclusion is that "every picture and every video of every transaction the Sabres have done in the past 10 years have Terry sitting right at the table" -- it would seem relevant that in the pressers regarding the 2 most recent HC decisions, TP is nowhere to be found.

I think you are being knowingly obtuse.

Especially when Kim actually said this.

Added Kim Pegula: "I don’t know there’s any team that hasn’t had their share of mistakes and changes. Those just happen to be ours."

I'll take her word of their involvement over yours. Sorry.😄

[nfreeman]

40 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I think you are being knowingly obtuse.

Especially when Kim actually said this.

Added Kim Pegula: "I don’t know there’s any team that hasn’t had their share of mistakes and changes. Those just happen to be ours."

I'll take her word of their involvement over yours. Sorry.😄

So you're interpreting the word "ours" to mean "we instructed our GMs on hiring and firing decisions?"

[SwampD]

58 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

So you're interpreting the word "ours" to mean "we instructed our GMs on hiring and firing decisions?"

I’m done caring. I think he is actively involved in every decision made, from players to coaches to GMs. My “proof” is the decade of pictures/videos showing him in every “war room” situation. Your “proof” is that those pictures tell us nothing. I think that is nuts.

[Kruppstahl]

10 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

None.

The root of the propblem is at the top of the food chain.

I don't care who hires the coach ... KA, or a consutant, or a new PHO, or me, or you ... just not the Pegula's.

I'm as hard on the Pegulas as anyone, but suggesting "none" and that they find out who the coach is when we do, is just not how the world works.

They are going to give a sign-off, but that's OK.  As long as they basically sign off automatically on whatever is recommended to the from Adams, which is also how it should work.

 

 

[Randall Flagg]

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nhl/sabres/paul-hamilton-take2-kevyn-adams-takes-command-buffalo-sabres-as-search-begins/71-f888795b-362f-4b3b-b2e8-4ec363650a38 I thought this was interesting.

"I’ve confirmed that in a meeting with Terry and Kim Pegula, Adams outlined his vision for this organization, and the Pegulas put the team in his hands. Originally they gave Krueger the same type of power they gave Sean McDermott, and they found out quickly that it was an utter failure."

This sounds like it was a creation of Krueger and Terry, and Adams convinced the Pegulas that this is not how things should work. 

"When Krueger wanted Chris Taylor gone, he brought in a college coach in Seth Appert, who had four winning seasons in 11 years at RPI. His record with the Engineers was 152-221-48, and he was fired after the 2016-17 season, when he posted a record of 8-28-1. He was hired for the Amerks because he came cheap and was no threat to Krueger."

If this stuff about Taylor is true, that's insane.

I think this article was linked elsewhere, this is where the PH quotes about players not caring about the history of the franchise came from. I wonder how he got this information, or if he's making some assumptions.

[That Aud Smell]

I'm no longer sure what position(s) @nfreeman is trying to defend on this subject, and, really, why he's so dug in.

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nhl/sabres/paul-hamilton-take2-kevyn-adams-takes-command-buffalo-sabres-as-search-begins/71-f888795b-362f-4b3b-b2e8-4ec363650a38 I thought this was interesting.

"I’ve confirmed that in a meeting with Terry and Kim Pegula, Adams outlined his vision for this organization, and the Pegulas put the team in his hands. Originally they gave Krueger the same type of power they gave Sean McDermott, and they found out quickly that it was an utter failure."

This sounds like it was a creation of Krueger and Terry, and Adams convinced the Pegulas that this is not how things should work. 

"When Krueger wanted Chris Taylor gone, he brought in a college coach in Seth Appert, who had four winning seasons in 11 years at RPI. His record with the Engineers was 152-221-48, and he was fired after the 2016-17 season, when he posted a record of 8-28-1. He was hired for the Amerks because he came cheap and was no threat to Krueger."

If this stuff about Taylor is true, that's insane.

I think this article was linked elsewhere, this is where the PH quotes about players not caring about the history of the franchise came from. I wonder how he got this information, or if he's making some assumptions.

Paul has a history of presenting his opinions as facts.

There is no doubt Krueger had influence in the firing of Taylor and the hiring of Appert.

There is certainly doubt that the reason is Krueger is an insecure egomaniac who fired Taylor because he was threatened by him and hired Appert because Appert is weak.

There is no doubt the Pegula's have dramatically cut corners in many areas of their operations.

There is considerable doubt that will prevent them from considering "name" coaches. That didn't prevent them from firing Krueger, or Botterill, or Botterill's staff, or spending to the cap this year.

[nfreeman]

13 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I'm no longer sure what position(s) @nfreeman is trying to defend on this subject, and, really, why he's so dug in.

My core position is that TP has more or less the same amount of involvement as most other NHL owners in matters like hiring/firing coaches.

As for being dug in -- we're having a conversation on a sports message board about factual matters that we don't know the truth of.  If being dug in means that I think my view is probably correct and that those with different assessments are probably incorrect, and that I haven't changed my view despite others repeating their views, then yes, I am dug in.  I will be happy to dig out when a credible source says something on this that contradicts my assessment, but I haven't seen that happen yet. 

Just the opposite, in fact -- since yesterday, 2 close observers of the team (Chad D. and Hammy) have said that KA has full authority to remake the organization.  Now, I think TP will still want to sign off on KA's choice for HC -- but neither Chad nor Hammy indicated that TP would be instructing KA (or instructed JB) on hiring/firing decisions.

 

[Kruppstahl]

Great little article from Chris Parker over at WGR-550 today...pointing the finger squarely at the Pegulas and asking them to write checks and get out of the way.

 

https://www.radio.com/wgr550/sports/sabres/bulldog-what-now-2021

[SwampD]

Man, I hope KA "chooses" Terry as new head coach.

I would love to see him behind the bench.

[That Aud Smell]

46 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

My core position is that TP has more or less the same amount of involvement as most other NHL owners in matters like hiring/firing coaches.

I don't have a feeling on that, one way or another. I can barely keep track of the Pegulas' doings.

[That Aud Smell]

47 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I will be happy to dig out when a credible source says something on this that contradicts my assessment, but I haven't seen that happen yet. 

Just the opposite, in fact -- since yesterday, 2 close observers of the team (Chad D. and Hammy) have said that KA has full authority to remake the organization.  Now, I think TP will still want to sign off on KA's choice for HC -- but neither Chad nor Hammy indicated that TP would be instructing KA (or instructed JB) on hiring/firing decisions.

I laid out above why I think your assessment on the Pegulas merely signing off on anyone's recommendation is incorrect. If past is prelude (and I think it is), KA will lead the effort, do the leg work, and the Pegulas will be at the table with an active role in reaching a consensus.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nhl/sabres/paul-hamilton-take2-kevyn-adams-takes-command-buffalo-sabres-as-search-begins/71-f888795b-362f-4b3b-b2e8-4ec363650a38 I thought this was interesting.

"I’ve confirmed that in a meeting with Terry and Kim Pegula, Adams outlined his vision for this organization, and the Pegulas put the team in his hands. Originally they gave Krueger the same type of power they gave Sean McDermott, and they found out quickly that it was an utter failure."

This sounds like it was a creation of Krueger and Terry, and Adams convinced the Pegulas that this is not how things should work. 

"When Krueger wanted Chris Taylor gone, he brought in a college coach in Seth Appert, who had four winning seasons in 11 years at RPI. His record with the Engineers was 152-221-48, and he was fired after the 2016-17 season, when he posted a record of 8-28-1. He was hired for the Amerks because he came cheap and was no threat to Krueger."

If this stuff about Taylor is true, that's insane.

I think this article was linked elsewhere, this is where the PH quotes about players not caring about the history of the franchise came from. I wonder how he got this information, or if he's making some assumptions.

I wonder if originally Krueger and Adams were on equal footing or if Krueger actually had more say 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

On 3/18/2021 at 3:22 PM, Thorny said:

I wonder if originally Krueger and Adams were on equal footing or if Krueger actually had more say 

Adams came in as GM with RaKru well established.  That's your answer I believe.

I really think RaKru ran the whole show and his coaching suffered.  Finally, it appears that the Pegula's had enough.