What role should Terry and Kim play in hiring a new coach?

[Brawndo]

3 hours ago, jad1 said:

The same role they played when they hired McDermott (whatever that was).  🤔

They were heavily involved and were the primary interviewers with Doug Whaley in attendance.

[jad1]

2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

They were heavily involved and were the primary interviewers with Doug Whaley in attendance.

Sure.  Do that again. 😎

 

[carpandean]

I expect and am just fine with them meeting with candidates and providing feedback to the "GM/POHO" to factor into his decision.  The key is that it's informative, not directive.  So, I guess it's somewhere between the 2nd and 3rd choices.  Not just signing off, but far from an equal partner.

 

[Sabres Fan in NS]

34 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Has anyone credible EVER said that TP has been more involved in HC selection than meeting his GM's choice and signing off on it?  Or for that matter that TP has any more involvement in HC selection than 75% of other NHL owners?

You are certainly right that some fans are concerned that TP is too involved in the HC hiring process.  Some fans are also concerned that the real Jack Eichel was abducted by aliens.  The existence of the concern, which I do not dispute, does not indicate any basis for the concerns.

What does this have to do with you saying that a poster here is on a crusade?  You seem to also be on a crusade.

There is no evidence to show that the owners are more involved than any other owner, but the fans can voice their concerns that if they are and based on the results of those hires so far can have the view that the owners should not be involved this time around.  I don't know if they have been involved, but I know that I don't want them to be this time around.

[Thorny]

40 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Here you go(from the Spectrum News website). I am reading this as it happened prior to a decision being made on the hire...

 

Pegula said he was immediately impressed with Krueger's worldly background and philosophies.

"There was a feeling when Ralph came in the room that it was almost a presence. It was like, 'Well, this guy's different,'" he said. "We started talking to Ralph and we didn't want to leave. I took so many notes, I stopped taking notes because Ralph's a quote machine."

Pegula was particularly impressed by Krueger's decision to visit Buffalo and spend time talking to fans in bars while watching the NHL playoffs to get a sense of the city.

"It's so ingenious," he said. "He's an out-of-the-box thinker."

l hope he can learn from all this lol poor terry

[Srw1525]

They should allow GMKA the go ahead to do what he wants as a head coach and just sit back. Sign off on it at the end when GMKA finds his coach.

[nfreeman]

38 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Here you go(from the Spectrum News website). I am reading this as it happened prior to a decision being made on the hire...

 

Pegula said he was immediately impressed with Krueger's worldly background and philosophies.

"There was a feeling when Ralph came in the room that it was almost a presence. It was like, 'Well, this guy's different,'" he said. "We started talking to Ralph and we didn't want to leave. I took so many notes, I stopped taking notes because Ralph's a quote machine."

Pegula was particularly impressed by Krueger's decision to visit Buffalo and spend time talking to fans in bars while watching the NHL playoffs to get a sense of the city.

"It's so ingenious," he said. "He's an out-of-the-box thinker."

As I said -- TP met with the candidate(s) recommended by the GM.  If TP hadn't liked RK, I am sure there would've been a discussion between TP and JB in which JB would've had to have made a good case to hire RK.  As it happened, TP liked RK.

NB that this does NOT mean that TP liked RK and instructed JB to hire RK.  It means that he liked RK and was accordingly pleased to sign off on JB's recommendation to hire RK.

 

34 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

and this...

 

As for the future structure of the organization, Pegula was asked whether or not he might hire someone to oversee the hockey department above the general manger. He didn't rule it out, but said that the structure will depend partially on the vision of the first person they bring into the organization.

"Without disclosing specifics on this search, we are going to find the best candidates that we will bring into our organization to achieve our goals," he said. "The structure will land depending on the first person that we bring in, what his attitude is and how we should work together."

Pegula also said that experience will be a key in the search for a new general manager, although he added that their approach may change as they begin to speak with candidates. He also said that he will be more personally involved than when Murray or Bylsma were hired.

"I can tell you that I was not involved in the last GM/coach search to a large extent and I regret that move," he said. "And that's all I'm going to say about that."

Pegula said that no interviews had been conducted as of Friday morning. 

 

/case closed

Of course TP was involved in the search/selection of a new GM.  Who else would've done it?

That is an entirely different situation from instructing the GM to hire/not hire the guy whom the GM wants as coach.

 

1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

What does this have to do with you saying that a poster here is on a crusade?  You seem to also be on a crusade.

There is no evidence to show that the owners are more involved than any other owner, but the fans can voice their concerns that if they are and based on the results of those hires so far can have the view that the owners should not be involved this time around.  I don't know if they have been involved, but I know that I don't want them to be this time around.

I made the crusade comment after seeing probably a dozen posts, plus a new thread, from a certain poster in a bunch of different threads in a 24-hour span all making the same point. 

As for the underlying point:  I don't think it's realistic to expect the owner not to want to meet and be comfortable with the new coach.  I certainly agree that I don't want the owner instructing the GM to hire/not hire someone.

 

[LabattBlue]

Just now, Srw1525 said:

They should allow GMKA the go ahead to do what he wants as a head coach and just sit back. Sign off on it at the end when GMKA finds his coach.

Actually Step 1 is hiring an experience VP of Hockey Ops and then let him decide what to do with KA. I know it won't happen, but that is what should happen.

 

 

[LabattBlue]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

As I said -- TP met with the candidate(s) recommended by the GM.  If TP hadn't liked RK, I am sure there would've been a discussion between TP and JB in which JB would've had to have made a good case to hire RK.  As it happened, TP liked RK.

NB that this does NOT mean that TP liked RK and instructed JB to hire RK.  It means that he liked RK and was accordingly pleased to sign off on JB's recommendation to hire RK.

 

Of course TP was involved in the search/selection of a new GM.  Who else would've done it?

That is an entirely different situation from instructing the GM to hire/not hire the guy whom the GM wants as coach.

 

I made the crusade comment after seeing probably a dozen posts, plus a new thread, from a certain poster in a bunch of different threads in a 24-hour span all making the same point. 

As for the underlying point:  I don't think it's realistic to expect the owner not to want to meet and be comfortable with the new coach.  I certainly agree that I don't want the owner instructing the GM to hire/not hire someone.

 

Go back and read my post.  The quote from Pegula reads more involved with "GM/Coach" and specifically mentions Bylsma.  It's more than just involved in the GM search because obviously he is involved with it because of the refusal to hire a VP of Hockey Ops.

[Srw1525]

7 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Actually Step 1 is hiring an experience VP of Hockey Ops and then let him decide what to do with KA. I know it won't happen, but that is what should happen.

 

 

That’s what should happen but it won’t happen that way. 

[That Aud Smell]

16 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

NB that this does NOT mean that TP liked RK and instructed JB to hire RK.  It means that he liked RK and was accordingly pleased to sign off on JB's recommendation to hire RK.

I just don't know where you draw that from. An inference, maybe. But I don't think it's the best inference to make based on what we know, what we've heard and read. PSE has flat C-level management structures. Those involved build consensus on key decisions, and move forward with it.

I don't get the sense, at all, that KA will be making recommendations and asking the Pegulas to sign off.

[Kong]

PA, you djdn't mention that the new head coach will first have to be approved by Eichel.

[nfreeman]

16 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

I just don't know where you draw that from. An inference, maybe. But I don't think it's the best inference to make based on what we know, what we've heard and read. PSE has flat C-level management structures. Those involved build consensus on key decisions, and move forward with it.

I don't get the sense, at all, that KA will be making recommendations and asking the Pegulas to sign off.

Well, we're all free to infer things and get senses on things, and I think it's fair to say that this has happened on both sides of this particular discussion. 

My point is that "what we know, have heard and read" does not in any way establish that TP's involvement in hiring coaches is greater than that of most owners.  Certain posters believe that it is greater, and repeat that proposition ad nauseum, but that does not transform the belief into fact.

As for KA and the next coach:  since you don't think he'll be recommending a candidate to TP and asking for TP to sign off -- what specifically do you think will happen?

[PASabreFan]

After Terry fell in love with RaKru, I'm sure Botterill felt no pressure to hire the man.

[PASabreFan]

11 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, we're all free to infer things and get senses on things, and I think it's fair to say that this has happened on both sides of this particular discussion. 

My point is that "what we know, have heard and read" does not in any way establish that TP's involvement in hiring coaches is greater than that of most owners.  Certain posters believe that it is greater, and repeat that proposition ad nauseum, but that does not transform the belief into fact.

As for KA and the next coach:  since you don't think he'll be recommending a candidate to TP and asking for TP to sign off -- what specifically do you think will happen?

I don't care about other owners. I've always said if other owners are behaving like Terry, we could have a huge strategic advantage if our owners were different.

You continue to twist, distort, shuck and jive.

And — I will continue to post my anti-Pegula comments until these lovely, smart, successful people either sell the team or get it right. Ad nauseum is their punishment for nauseating me and almost everyone else. Except for one "owner-sniffer" who shall remain nameless.

[nfreeman]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I don't care about other owners. I've always said if other owners are behaving like Terry, we could have a huge strategic advantage if our owners were different.

You continue to twist, distort, shuck and jive.

And — I will continue to post my anti-Pegula comments until these lovely, smart, successful people either sell the team or get it right. Ad nauseum is their punishment for nauseating me and almost everyone else. Except for one "owner-sniffer" who shall remain nameless.

Do other NFL owners behave like TP?  Is that why the Bills are doing well?

In what way do I twist, distort, shuck and jive?

You are of course free, and encouraged, to post your views, just as others are free to call you out when you cross the line.

[Marvin]

11 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

After Terry fell in love with RaKru, I'm sure Botterill felt no pressure to hire the man.

My vote was just to sign off.  The Pegulas should use their connexions to make sure that there aren't skeletons in the closet, like spousal abuse.  After that?  Nothing.

Take the following as you will.

My information is that RK is whom GMJB actually wanted instead of Housley.  I heard rumours from two sources that one reason that GMJB did not help Housley during the slide after the winning streak was in part to undermine him to try and bring RK in here.  Although their inside information is limited in number and scope, these sources have never been wrong, so I assume they are correct.

[SwampD]

27 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, we're all free to infer things and get senses on things, and I think it's fair to say that this has happened on both sides of this particular discussion. 

My point is that "what we know, have heard and read" does not in any way establish that TP's involvement in hiring coaches is greater than that of most owners.  Certain posters believe that it is greater, and repeat that proposition ad nauseum, but that does not transform the belief into fact.

As for KA and the next coach:  since you don't think he'll be recommending a candidate to TP and asking for TP to sign off -- what specifically do you think will happen?

I honestly don't get how you arrive at that stance.

Every picture and every video of every transaction the Sabres have done in the past 10 years have Terry sitting right at the table. To think that he is there just rubberstamping the outcome is ridiculous.

[PASabreFan]

8 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Do other NFL owners behave like TP?  Is that why the Bills are doing well?

In what way do I twist, distort, shuck and jive?

You are of course free, and encouraged, to post your views, just as others are free to call you out when you cross the line.

I'll bite. What line? Do you complain when post after post, year after year, is pro-Pegula?

@SwampD I apologize. I finally see the biased officiating.

[nfreeman]

10 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I'll bite. What line? Do you complain when post after post, year after year, is pro-Pegula?

@SwampD I apologize. I finally see the biased officiating.

The line that separates enjoyable message board conversation from the other stuff that you, I and others from time to time engage in.

[nfreeman]

16 minutes ago, SwampD said:

I honestly don't get how you arrive at that stance.

Every picture and every video of every transaction the Sabres have done in the past 10 years have Terry sitting right at the table. To think that he is there just rubberstamping the outcome is ridiculous.

Did you see TP today?

Do you see TP in this video (when RK was announced as coach)?  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sabres+hire+ralph+krueger+may+2019&t=ffnt&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7UXkFOwtdzQ

Seeing him sitting in the draft war room -- like pretty much every other NHL owner does -- doesn't mean anything, unless you think he's in there lobbying for Alex Nylander or Ukka-Pekka-Lukkonen.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

4 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Did you see TP today?

Do you see TP in this video (when RK was announced as coach)?  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sabres+hire+ralph+krueger+may+2019&t=ffnt&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7UXkFOwtdzQ

Seeing him sitting in the draft war room -- like pretty much every other NHL owner does -- doesn't mean anything, unless you think he's in there lobbying for Alex Nylander or Ukka-Pekka-Lukkonen.

He was there on the phone when KA called Taylor Hall to see if he would consider signing with the Sabres.  There is a video of it someplace in the cobwebs ...

[Radar]

The questions I have about Terry/Kim are the overall administration of the franchise. Primary is the selections of GM's. Also there seems a negative aura surrounding this team. Those things can't be separated from the top. The best GM he's had he inherited. The best coach was inherited. I look at the past ten years and just can't separate only constant and that's the owner. To meddle or not to meddle in this case isn't the question. Responsibility for this franchise lies with the owners.

[nfreeman]

15 minutes ago, Radar said:

The questions I have about Terry/Kim are the overall administration of the franchise. Primary is the selections of GM's. Also there seems a negative aura surrounding this team. Those things can't be separated from the top. The best GM he's had he inherited. The best coach was inherited. I look at the past ten years and just can't separate only constant and that's the owner. To meddle or not to meddle in this case isn't the question. Responsibility for this franchise lies with the owners.

All of this is fair.  Ultimately the franchise has fallen to pieces on his watch, and it's reasonable for him to be accountable.

[SwampD]

33 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Did you see TP today?

Do you see TP in this video (when RK was announced as coach)?  https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sabres+hire+ralph+krueger+may+2019&t=ffnt&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D7UXkFOwtdzQ

Seeing him sitting in the draft war room -- like pretty much every other NHL owner does -- doesn't mean anything, unless you think he's in there lobbying for Alex Nylander or Ukka-Pekka-Lukkonen.

I don't see Ralph in that video either. Is that some sort of proof that he was never named coach of the Sabres?