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OT: The New Religion Thread.

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9 minutes ago, Crosschecking said:

Probably not in North America, Europe, and the Middle East. However, they did open up in Pakistan. https://apnews.com/d874a519ddcc6a081407bf792e0e5b35

 

Also, I'm curious about what you think about the Taliban. Given your temperament and demeanor on here, I think it's safe to assume that you do not agree with their approach to Islam. (Not trying to start a fight. Seems to me that most Afghans have no respect for them. So, I'm sorry in advance if it's a touchy subject.)

Pakistan ... the recless Texas (no offense again to our fellow SSers from there) of the Muslim world.  That's your answer.

I have no issue at all talking about the Afghan / Pakistan ... Taliban.  They are simply not following the true teachings of Islam.  Terror and hatred are not part of Islam.  Never has and never will, but there will always be people who interpret things in the Qur'an a certain way to justify any manner of horrible things.  Much like fanatical interpretations of any other scripture by any other so-called followers of this faith, or that.

In simple terms ... there is absolutely nothing that I agree with that the Taliban are doing, or have done.  Fortunately, there are almost 2 billion other Muslins worldwide that think exactly as I do.

Edited by New Scotland (NS)
I'm still an idiot ...
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1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Pakistan ... the recless Texas (no offense again to our fellow SSers from there) of the Muslim world.  That's your answer.

I have no issue at all talking about the Afghan / Pakistan ... Taliban.  They are simply not following the true teachings of Islam.  Terror and hatred are not part of Islam.  Never has and never will, but there will always be people who interpret things in the Qur'an a certain way to justify any manner of horrible things.  Mush like fanatical interpretations of any other scripture by any other so-called followers of this faith, or that.

In simple terms ... there is absolutely nothing that I agree with that the Taliban are doing, or have done.  Fortunately, there are almost 2 billion other Muslins worldwide that think exactly as I do.

That explains things with Pakistan. Same planet, completely different world.

So, basically, the Taliban are an primary example of what I said earlier about theology falling into the wrong hands.

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1 minute ago, Crosschecking said:

That explains things with Pakistan. Same planet, completely different world.

So, basically, the Taliban are an primary example of what I said earlier about theology falling into the wrong hands.

Exactly, on both of your points.

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33 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Exactly, on both of your points.

Speaking of theology in certain hands, what happened to etiennep99? Is he still on here, or did management ban him?

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10 minutes ago, Crosschecking said:

Speaking of theology in certain hands, what happened to etiennep99? Is he still on here, or did management ban him?

I really like the way you phrased that point.  Well done.

I don't think he did anything bannable, or even warnable.  I may be wrong, but I think he just got tired of the well mannered and level headed discussion this thread turned back into.  I think all contributers are to be commended for making this a good thread for good discussion.  I believe that fact turned our friend away.

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1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I really like the way you phrased that point.  Well done.

I don't think he did anything bannable, or even warnable.  I may be wrong, but I think he just got tired of the well mannered and level headed discussion this thread turned back into.  I think all contributers are to be commended for making this a good thread for good discussion.  I believe that fact turned our friend away.

Exactly. Eleven laid down the ground rules. He, OTOH, came in with his own objective. I did notice that he hasn't said another word to me ever since I told him that his posts were about him and not Jesus.

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On 4/23/2020 at 11:47 AM, New Scotland (NS) said:

Today is Shaban 30.

This means there can be no doubt when Ramadan starts.  It will be today at sunset.  There is a very good chance that I will be able to see the new cresent moon that will mark the official beginning of Ramadan.  The first fasting day will start tomorrow at dawn ... 4:45 AM ... and will end at sunset ... 8:12 PM.

I have already said that I will be delaying my fasting due to many reasons and hope to make up the fasting days in the coming year, which includes my non-essential Internet fast.  So, you all will have to try to make it through this coming month WITH ME, rather than without, as in past Ramadans ... ha!!

A lot of Catholics relaxed themselves over Lent as things evolved.  A lot of us figured, look, whatever it was that I was giving up for Lent, forget it.  Right now, I'm giving *everything* up, so I'll just offer up that instead.  Reasonable.

Question:  What does a Muslim in the extreme Northern Hemisphere do when Ramadan falls in the summer?  When I visited Iceland, it was never dark and the sun merely dipped below the horizon for a minute or so.  How and when do these people eat?

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2 hours ago, Eleven said:

A lot of Catholics relaxed themselves over Lent as things evolved.  A lot of us figured, look, whatever it was that I was giving up for Lent, forget it.  Right now, I'm giving *everything* up, so I'll just offer up that instead.  Reasonable.

Question:  What does a Muslim in the extreme Northern Hemisphere do when Ramadan falls in the summer?  When I visited Iceland, it was never dark and the sun merely dipped below the horizon for a minute or so.  How and when do these people eat?

Concerning your first point ... very reasonable.  I have many Catholic friends and not one of them kept a strict Lent.  I am not sure about Muslims, but my closest friends are either delaying fasting, like me, or are very much limiting their fast.

Concerning the second point ... there are two ways to deal with the issue.  Some do a 'Mecca Fast' and fast the hours that are fasted in Arabia.  Others will choose a more reasonable area in the south part of their country.  So, far Northern Canada will fast the fasting hours in Halifax, or Monteal, or Vancouver, but never, ever, fast the fasting hours in The Great Satan.  That would just be so wrong.

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24 minutes ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Concerning your first point ... very reasonable.  I have many Catholic friends and not one of them kept a strict Lent.  I am not sure about Muslims, but my closest friends are either delaying fasting, like me, or are very much limiting their fast.

Concerning the second point ... there are two ways to deal with the issue.  Some do a 'Mecca Fast' and fast the hours that are fasted in Arabia.  Others will choose a more reasonable area in the south part of their country.  So, far Northern Canada will fast the fasting hours in Halifax, or Monteal, or Vancouver, but never, ever, fast the fasting hours in The Great Satan.  That would just be so wrong.

So in the case of Iceland, where even the southernmost part of the country doesn't have nighttime, they would likely do the Mecca thing?  

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3 minutes ago, Eleven said:

So in the case of Iceland, where even the southernmost part of the country doesn't have nighttime, they would likely do the Mecca thing?  

I would say ... yes.  Or, they would pick some other place.  Rest assured, no one would fast the Iceland hours in the summer.  Even in Halifax the fasting hours in the summer (a few Ramadans ago now) were extremely long.  So long that I shortened them for myself.

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1 minute ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I would say ... yes.  Or, they would pick some other place.  Rest assured, no one would fast the Iceland hours in the summer.  Even in Halifax the fasting hours in the summer (a few Ramadans ago now) were extremely long.  So long that I shortened them for myself.

That's what made me think of it.  Even the hours by the end of Ramadan this year would be ridiculous.

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1 minute ago, Eleven said:

That's what made me think of it.  Even the hours by the end of Ramadan this year would be ridiculous.

It has been my experince that many fast for the sake of tradition and to do it without real focus on why they are doing it.  They miss the message that you are forbidden to fast if it puts you, or others, in danger.  Fast for 12+ hours in the heat and humidity is dangerous.

Unfortunately, IMO, there are many that only get hunger and thirst from fasting, which misses the point completely.  Makes no differnce if it is the 40 days of lent, the 29 / 30 days of Ramadan, or the 1 day of Yom Kippur.

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On that note ... it is time for my afternoon prayers ...

NS back in five, or ten ...

(why do I speak in the third person sometimes ????? ... Yous all can just call me Jimmy ...)

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Since I am not fasting this Ramadan I have not paid very close attention.

The fast today here in Halifax would have started at dawn ... 4:43 AM ... and end at sunset ... 8:12 PM.  That is a long fast, especially the no water part.

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On 4/24/2020 at 4:48 PM, New Scotland (NS) said:

Since I am not fasting this Ramadan I have not paid very close attention.

The fast today here in Halifax would have started at dawn ... 4:43 AM ... and end at sunset ... 8:12 PM.  That is a long fast, especially the no water part.

😳 Yikes!

Having said that, the more I think about other religions, the more I realize that I don’t really know all of the finer and subtler nuances that are in each of them. Not to be critical of the American media, but they don’t give us the full story on what makes each of them tick due to time constraints. That’s why we wind up making so many assumptions based on what has been communicated unto us (and why we ignorantly assume that every Muslim is a terrorist - which is clearly not true.)
 

Unfortunately, such ignorance has had violent consequences. Whenever I see a man with a beard and a turban to hold his hair together along with a metal bracelet around his dominant hand, I know that he’s a Sikh. I have read a certain amount about them and observed that they are hard-working, loyal, and disciplined people. A lot of people here don’t know this. They think he’s a Muslim. Therefore, they have injured and killed Sikhs and bombed their gurdwaras - and yet the Sikhs have not repaid an eye for an eye.

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Today is Ramadan 8.

I read a section of the Qur'an each morning.  It divides very nicely into 30 sections ... one for each day of the month (especially Ramadan, when every Muslim is encouraged to read the entire Qur'an).  I spend about an hour and a half each morning doing this.  It is a great way for me to start my day.

Yesterday I read one of my favourite ayat, which is in Sura 6 ... 6:38

'There is not an animal that lives on the earth, nor a being that flies on it's wings, but forms part of communities like you.  Nothing have We omitted from the Book and they all shall be gathered to their Lord in the end'.

That warms my heart.

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23 hours ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

Today is Ramadan 8.

I read a section of the Qur'an each morning.  It divides very nicely into 30 sections ... one for each day of the month (especially Ramadan, when every Muslim is encouraged to read the entire Qur'an).  I spend about an hour and a half each morning doing this.  It is a great way for me to start my day.

Yesterday I read one of my favourite ayat, which is in Sura 6 ... 6:38

'There is not an animal that lives on the earth, nor a being that flies on it's wings, but forms part of communities like you.  Nothing have We omitted from the Book and they all shall be gathered to their Lord in the end'.

That warms my heart.

Speaking of the Qur’an, here’s a question I have. Did it originally come with Sura and Aya divisions, or was that a later development? I ask this because the Jewish and Christian Scriptures were not originally written this way. The chapter and verse divisions came several centuries after the canon was codified.

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3 hours ago, Crosschecking said:

Speaking of the Qur’an, here’s a question I have. Did it originally come with Sura and Aya divisions, or was that a later development? I ask this because the Jewish and Christian Scriptures were not originally written this way. The chapter and verse divisions came several centuries after the canon was codified.

My understanding is that it was revealed in sections, but not as it is now with the ordering and the organization of the Sura and Aya as they are now.  Ayat means signs in Arabic, so the Qur'an was revealed by Aya.  The ordering came later.  For example, the Qur'an starts with Sura Fatiha, but it was not the first aya revealed.  The first revelation is somewhere in the middle of the Qur'an, where Muhammad (PBUH) is commanded by God to *recite, in the name of God, for it is He who taught man the use of the pen*  (paraphrazing here).  This was when God told Muhammad (PBUH) through the angel Gabriel, that he has been choosen to be a Messenger of God.  So, the Prophet began to recite what was revealed and scribes bagan to write it all down.  The final canonization happened in the third caliphate under Uthman, who was a companion of the Prophet. This happened around 20 years after Muhammad (PBUH) died.  The process actually began during the lifetime of the Prophet.

Edited by New Scotland (NS)
my typing is terrible ...

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On 5/2/2020 at 3:12 PM, New Scotland (NS) said:

My understanding is that it was revealed in sections, but not as it is now with the ordering and the organization of the Sura and Aya as they are now.  Ayat means signs in Arabic, so the Qur'an was revealed by Aya.  The ordering came later.  For example, the Qur'an starts with Sura Fatiha, but it was not the first aya revealed.  The first revelation is somewhere in the middle of the Qur'an, where Muhammad (PBUH) is commanded by God to *recite, in the name of God, for it is He who taught man the use of the pen*  (paraphrazing here).  This was when God told Muhammad (PBUH) through the angel Gabriel, that he has been choosen to be a Messenger of God.  So, the Prophet began to recite what was revealed and scribes bagan to write it all down.  The final canonization happened in the third caliphate under Uthman, who was a companion of the Prophet. This happened around 20 years after Muhammad (PBUH) died.  The process actually began during the lifetime of the Prophet.

Thanks for that info. It helps to know.

As for me, I’m trying to read the Scriptures with no chapter and verse divisions in mind. IIRC, much of the New Testament quoted the Old Testament without mentioning specific book chapter and verse because they already knew where these quotes originated from - especially since the Pharisees had plenty of head knowledge of the Tanakh.

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On 5/20/2020 at 11:13 PM, Crosschecking said:

Sad to hear about this.

Sorry for the loss, but I am also sorry to say that I never heard of him.

+++++

In other news ... Ramadan ends tomorrow at sunset. Weirdest Ramadan that I have known.

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18 hours ago, ubkev said:

Eid Mubarak to @New Scotland (NS)

Thank you, my friend.

Well, it would not be Eid without the annual Eid Controvercy.  Usually the moon is not sighted, but there are rouge states that say they saw it (no offence, but it usually is Pakistan and India) and start Eid before anyone else.

This Ramadan / Eid the scientific calculation method told us that it would be not likely, but possible that the new crescent moon to mark the end of Ramadan could be visible (science told us that it would be possible) under ideal conditions in West Africa just before sunset.  Sure enough there were credible and verified sightings in at least Senegal and Mauritania.  The moon set at 7:25 local time in that part of the world.  Plenty of time to see the new cresent before sunset, which was right around the same time.

Of course, the Saudis (the most unislamic and racist country out there in the so-called Muslim world) did not accept the sighting and announced that Saturday would be Ramadan 30 and Sunday would Shawwal 1 and Eid 1.

The whole world does not typically go against the Saudis, except a few times that those previously mentioned rouge states do.

I am extremely proud to say that the Islamic Society of Nova Scotia and of Ottawa, Ontario where the rouge states this time that defied the Saudis and accepted the moon sighting on Friday and declared that Ramadan ended at sunset on Friday and that Eid 1 would be Saturday.  We were the only states to accept the moon sighting in Senegal and Mauritania, other than some West Africa counties.

Eid Mubarak, indeed.

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