Democratic Presidential hopefuls and your thoughts

[Ogre]

25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

. I also vote my conscious instead of a party line which I am going to guess is something we could talk about.

I forgot to include this. My apologies. Don’t assume I vote any other way just because I belong to a party. I needed to be able to participate in primaries. 
 I actually hold an office(and have for a dozen years) in my LU and have made many motions and voted “Aye” many times for our PAL $ to go to a candidate that was running against my party. I vote for Unions because I believe whole heartedly that they are THE key to a strong middle class. Whoever helps me get there, baby!

[LGR4GM]

33 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Where did I agree being a man gives you a privilege?

Yes, every one of those women were soft. Tulsi smashed Harris on her past and Harris’ sordid history didn’t help either. Warren was trying to demonstrate more energy than she had which is not the first time she pretended to be something she is not. Klobuchar was simply forgettable. I’m pretty sure HRC, as much as I dislike her, could take Biden. 

If you think I see Tulsi as tougher because she somehow aligns with my political views then I’d say you need to stop playing the race and gender card. 

The very fact that you do not is troubling. 

Warren destroyed Bloomberg and Tulsi had 1 moment against Harris. A debate performance here or there though does not make one soft or hard. 

Race and gender matter. Implying otherwise is blind. 

[LGR4GM]

27 minutes ago, Ogre said:

No it didn’t. You heavily implied that old white men don’t have the perspective on minorities that other groups do. That is a false statement that I could disprove countless times. Just because our president is a racist doesn’t mean all people in that demographic are. 

 

No what I said was that those minorities and women have a different perspective than old white guys. The reason being because they lived it. So again you are not reading what I am writing and pasting over it. Women and minorities have had a different life than old white guys, or white guys in general. That gives them a different perspective on things.

I never even said Trump was a racist let alone that all white people or old white people are. Again you are not reading what I am saying and you are trying to put words in my mouth. That said, I think Trump is a racist. 

[SABRES 0311]

35 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The very fact that you do not is troubling. 

Warren destroyed Bloomberg and Tulsi had 1 moment against Harris. A debate performance here or there though does not make one soft or hard. 

Race and gender matter. Implying otherwise is blind. 

They matter too much to people looking for excuses. 

[LTS]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

So I will not back down from the idea that in 21st century America is sucks that the only people who can become president this election cycle are old white men, 2 of which have clear signs of dementia. Or do we think Biden gets confused easily just cuz and that Trump gets confused and slurs just cuz? Bernie might as well but those were the 2 examples that came to mind. It would have been nice to have a women in particular as president because that is an entirely different world perspective. But I see that I triggered some people by suggesting old white guys with re-tread ideas don't excite me. 

It's only a good idea for hockey GMs?  ?

In most cases, by the time someone works up enough influence in the political party they are older.  Younger candidates are often seen as too idealistic, too volatile.  Which, of course, is a good joke given the current administration. 

51 minutes ago, Ogre said:

No it didn’t. You heavily implied that old white men don’t have the perspective on minorities that other groups do. That is a false statement that I could disprove countless times. Just because our president is a racist doesn’t mean all people in that demographic are. 

 

This is absolutely vital in the necessary areas and I commend you for your efforts but let’s not fool ourselves, Hillary crushed him in vote totals but that didn’t provide enough from the EC. We need boots on the ground in those places to get enough EC votes to out this current idiot. 

 

JFC. If your “beat down” by 24 yo then God help you with the rest of your life!

 

....on an anonymous message board. As I’ve suggested above, we need boots on the ground in key areas, not anonymous banter.

No matter how hard you try, I'm not sure you can ever have the same perception as someone else.  This is even more true when you consider the differences between yourself and the other person.  Regardless of what I can be told, I cannot replicate the feeling of racism or sexism.  Not in the same ways.  Obviously we can all strive to understand the situations better but without the experience I'm not convinced it can ever be the same.

When you choose to give up, you choose to stop fighting to make change. Then accept that results.

I don't think that engaging in an anonymous message board is not being involved.  If the message is seen here and carried somewhere else then it did it's job.

My biggest concern and focus is on the trends in population shift.  How will that play into changing the political landscape after this election when states like NY an CA are likely to lose representation and states like TX, AZ, FL are likely to gain it.

[SABRES 0311]

7 minutes ago, LTS said:

It's only a good idea for hockey GMs?  ?

In most cases, by the time someone works up enough influence in the political party they are older.  Younger candidates are often seen as too idealistic, too volatile.  Which, of course, is a good joke given the current administration. 

No matter how hard you try, I'm not sure you can ever have the same perception as someone else.  This is even more true when you consider the differences between yourself and the other person.  Regardless of what I can be told, I cannot replicate the feeling of racism or sexism.  Not in the same ways.  Obviously we can all strive to understand the situations better but without the experience I'm not convinced it can ever be the same.

When you choose to give up, you choose to stop fighting to make change. Then accept that results.

I don't think that engaging in an anonymous message board is not being involved.  If the message is seen here and carried somewhere else then it did it's job.

My biggest concern and focus is on the trends in population shift.  How will that play into changing the political landscape after this election when states like NY an CA are likely to lose representation and states like TX, AZ, FL are likely to gain it.

To the last paragraph. I saw my first Trump rally ever and it was in California. It was a small roadside thing but plenty of people honking their horns which I guess was in support. I can see California and Texas swapping in our lifetimes. I also think people are tired of career politicians. I don’t think it has to do with their gender, age, race or anything like that. 

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Ogre said:

No it didn’t. You heavily implied that old white men don’t have the perspective on minorities that other groups do. That is a false statement that I could disprove countless times. Just because our president is a racist doesn’t mean all people in that demographic are.

No matter how empathetic someone is, a 50 year old wealthy white guy does not have the same perspective on life as the average woman or person of color.  They just can’t.

[LGR4GM]

37 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

They matter too much to people looking for excuses. 

No they just matter. Being black, or brown, or whatever color other than white matters to how the world interacts with you. The same goes for being a women. Those interactions matter and shape your life experience. It isn't an excuse, it is a fact. 

[SABRES 0311]

4 minutes ago, Curt said:

No matter how empathetic someone is, a 50 year old wealthy white guy does not have the same perspective on life as the average woman or person of color.  They just can’t.

That works both ways hence why there is no such thing as a perfect candidate. You can’t make everyone happy.

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Curt said:

No matter how empathetic someone is, a 50 year old wealthy white guy does not have the same perspective on life as the average woman or person of color.  They just can’t.

That was my only point. I just want someone with a different perspective on life to be on top to see if they can find new solutions to old problems as opposed to the re-tread of ideas we seem to get now. 

[Ogre]

9 minutes ago, Curt said:

No matter how empathetic someone is, a 50 year old wealthy white guy does not have the same perspective on life as the average woman or person of color.  They just can’t.

I’m not saying they do, but to suggest that they wouldn’t have those groups best interests at heart is not accurate. My FIL is 73 and has been an advocate at the state level for migrant workers. Should he stop doing all the wonderful worker that he’s been doing the last 40 years because he’s an old white dude?

[SABRES 0311]

27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That was my only point. I just want someone with a different perspective on life to be on top to see if they can find new solutions to old problems as opposed to the re-tread of ideas we seem to get now. 

And that’s fine. In fact I replied to @LTSand said people are sick of the career politicians. Your original post articulates an issue with the color of their skin and gender. 

[Ogre]

1 hour ago, SABRES 0311 said:

They matter too much to people looking for excuses. 

If we could somehow quantify the brilliance and potential that has been lost to the disease of racism/sexism, we might be able to include statements like this in a discussion. Unfortunately both still exist.

 

1 hour ago, LTS said:

When you choose to give up, you choose to stop fighting to make change. Then accept that results.

Exactly why I begging for more involvement from those that seem fed up with the current state of affairs. Trust me, most of these older folks involved around here are tired and are desperately looking to hand the torch off. Lots of good people(from both parties)unable to let it fall apart completely. Just think about it, if you're unwilling to even be involved at the local level, in what hands do you leave your fate?

 

1 hour ago, LTS said:

My biggest concern and focus is on the trends in population shift. 

Mine too. Especially at the national level. So long as the EC exists, the true ideals of this nation will never be heard and the prevalent voice of the American people will fall on deaf ears. At the local level? Man, around here they're almost begging for your involvement. My area especially is changing. My wife and I were out with trash bags cleaning up the sides of the road yesterday and received a lot of honks from passersby. Six years ago we would receive sneers at our efforts. I take that, at least, as progress. Hopefully I see more of those same faces at some of meetings. Maybe they will participate more knowing there are like minded folks around?

Edited March 9, 2020 by Ogre
Rotator surgery/one hand typing

[Curt]

38 minutes ago, Ogre said:

I’m not saying they do, but to suggest that they wouldn’t have those groups best interests at heart is not accurate. My FIL is 73 and has been an advocate at the state level for migrant workers. Should he stop doing all the wonderful worker that he’s been doing the last 40 years because he’s an old white dude?

Who said, or even suggested that anyone wouldn’t have “x group”’s best interests at heart?  It was only stated that they don’t have the same perspective.

Good on your father in law.  I don’t think he should stop trying to help people, obviously.

[SABRES 0311]

10 minutes ago, Ogre said:

If we could somehow quantify the brilliance and potential that has been lost to the disease of racism/sexism, we might be able to include statements like this in a discussion. Unfortunately both still exist.

Racism and sexism have been around forever and not just in the U.S. Guess what, they will likely be around for a long time and good people need to continue fighting against it. However, the way you fight an injustice can either contribute positively or negatively. 

[LGR4GM]

45 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

And that’s fine. In fact I replied to @LTSand said people are sick of the career politicians. Your original post articulates an issue with the color of their skin and gender. 

Yes because I have a problem with the fact most politicians are of one skin color and gender. 

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, Ogre said:

I’m not saying they do, but to suggest that they wouldn’t have those groups best interests at heart is not accurate. My FIL is 73 and has been an advocate at the state level for migrant workers. Should he stop doing all the wonderful worker that he’s been doing the last 40 years because he’s an old white dude?

You are still missing the point. It is not that a white male cannot help people. It is that he has not had the experience those people he is helping have had. I would like more of those experiences in office because the best advocate is yourself because you know what you have been through. 

33 minutes ago, Curt said:

Who said, or even suggested that anyone wouldn’t have “x group”’s best interests at heart?  It was only stated that they don’t have the same perspective.

Good on your father in law.  I don’t think he should stop trying to help people, obviously.

yes, that was all I was bringing up

[Ogre]

21 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

good people need to continue fighting against it.

How do feel about the way the Republicans have reshaped districts over the years to suppress the value of minority votes? Some of these districts are absolutely ridiculous.

 

23 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

However, the way you fight an injustice can either contribute positively or negatively.

This is up for debate. I’m sure we could agree that doing something is better than doing nothing.

[Ogre]

Look, @LGR4GM, I get where you’re coming from. I really do. We can’t elect someone without experience because of perspective just for the sake of it. Just because someone hasn’t had the experience personally doesn’t mean they can’t take it personally. I’d take a grizzled vet that could listen to the plight and enact the change over a newcomer that couldn’t make the connections to get the job done any day of the week. That’s how politics should work. A bunch of different philosophies finding middle ground. And to my original point, if more people that felt the philosophy got involved with boots on the ground then we would have already achieved the end to which you are striving! Trust me, man. I’ve been fighting for progressive causes for YEARS! It ain’t easy. If you think it is then here is the torch, buddy.

[SABRES 0311]

7 minutes ago, Ogre said:

How do feel about the way the Republicans have reshaped districts over the years to suppress the value of minority votes? Some of these districts are absolutely ridiculous.

 

This is up for debate. I’m sure we could agree that doing something is better than doing nothing.

The same way I feel about manipulating elections in general. I think it’s dishonest. Here’s the the thing. Are they doing it because they think a vote doesn’t count unless you are white or because they want to win (dishonesty)? One is racist and one is dishonest politics. 

Up for debate? Doing something is not better than nothing when that something hurts the cause you are fighting for. 

[Ogre]

26 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

or because they want to win

And if they cared even slightly for those people and showed it in the way they govern they wouldn’t have to make Frankendistricts to get the votes they need to win. Racism takes many forms. I don’t think anyone gets away with saying “I’m not racist but...” anymore.

[LGR4GM]

34 minutes ago, Ogre said:

Look, @LGR4GM, I get where you’re coming from. I really do. We can’t elect someone without experience because of perspective just for the sake of it. Just because someone hasn’t had the experience personally doesn’t mean they can’t take it personally. I’d take a grizzled vet that could listen to the plight and enact the change over a newcomer that couldn’t make the connections to get the job done any day of the week. That’s how politics should work. A bunch of different philosophies finding middle ground. And to my original point, if more people that felt the philosophy got involved with boots on the ground then we would have already achieved the end to which you are striving! Trust me, man. I’ve been fighting for progressive causes for YEARS! It ain’t easy. If you think it is then here is the torch, buddy.

That is still not what I am saying. Still not it. Me being annoyed that we are getting the same perspective from the same demographic once again in an election shouldn't have been such a conversation sparking gesture. 

To the 2nd bolded. This means they have to have someone around who has had that plight. They have to listen to that person or even ask about the plight in the first place. This means they have to internalize it and make a change. We are already adding barriers to that change versus just having it come from the horses mouth as the saying goes. Again you took this so far out of context at this point it is hard to bring it back. I was lamenting the lack of other viewpoints. Stop arguing that the ppl still running can learn those viewpoints because that wasn't the point of the original comment. 

[LGR4GM]

36 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

The same way I feel about manipulating elections in general. I think it’s dishonest. Here’s the the thing. Are they doing it because they think a vote doesn’t count unless you are white or because they want to win (dishonesty)? One is racist and one is dishonest politics. 

Up for debate? Doing something is not better than nothing when that something hurts the cause you are fighting for. 

They are doing something to maintain office that directly impacts minorities who don't vote for them because they enact policies that hurt those same brown people. AKA they are racist policies because the dis-proportionally impact minorities. 

[SABRES 0311]

5 minutes ago, Ogre said:

And if they cared even slightly for those people and showed it in the way they govern they wouldn’t have to make Frankendistricts to get the votes they need to win. Racism takes many forms. I don’t think anyone gets away with saying “I’m not racist but...” anymore.

What are you talking about? Who is saying “I’m not racist but”? Seriously, in the last decade the race card is the default. I could be way off but maybe politicians regardless of party don’t actually care about you. Maybe they say things and screw with districts for job security. Maybe it’s more about power and money than someone’s color.

[Ogre]

6 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

in the last decade the race card is the default.

It should be. Enslaved for centuries, sold as property, beaten, battered, lynched. Freed yet couldn’t participate as a citizen. Back to being beaten, battered and lynched. Let‘s visit what happened to the First Americans. That was a full blown genocide. Literally. A genocide. One of our American presidents was a big player in that attempt at extinction. What was done to the native peoples of this continent by governments is abhorrent. There are people alive today who are still living with the ramifications. Shouldn’t we at least be sensitive to their condition?