WildCard Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Yeah, silly me for not wanting to go into 2016-17 with a legitimate shot at the playoffs with two question marks in net. I didn't say he's a bad backup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I didn't say he's a bad backup. I didn't say he was the answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I didn't say he was the answer. What does 'he'll be the last one to get a chance' mean? Chance at what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Pretty sure you're the only one who thinks Johnson is the answer He's a very good answer at backup. Wouldn't want to give him a 3 year deal, but would be fine w/ 2 years. And would prefer to see Lehner earning the lion's share of games next year w/ Ullmark getting the bulk of Ra-cha-cha's action. 2 playoff runs in 1 season. :thumbsup: Let Chad get 24-30 games next year & the 2 Swedes each 50+. Bring on Price/Halak in '17-'18. (Q is: which ends up Price & which Halak?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Considering all I hear about is how bad our defense is, since October Chad has a .927 save percentage. If that's "backup" material I'd love to hear what others expect from a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Considering all I hear about is how bad our defense is, since October Chad has a .927 save percentage. If that's "backup" material I'd love to hear what others expect from a starter. I don't really have a dog in this but what is the league average sv% for goalies with say 20+ starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Considering all I hear about is how bad our defense is, since October Chad has a .927 save percentage. If that's "backup" material I'd love to hear what others expect from a starter. So he is the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 I don't really have a dog in this but what is the league average sv% for goalies with say 20+ starts? I don't know the league save % for those with 20+ starts, but Chad has a .918 right now putting him 18th with Rask and Quick. The .927 since October would put him #3 in the league. So he is the answer? I guess you'd have to define 'answer'. I'd like to see this team have a goaltender that will be here for 10+ years. I like Lehner a lot, I really do. But with him and Ullmark being question marks right now I have absolutely no problems with Chad being the #1 for the next two or three years............... or even longer if he continues his success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) I don't really have a dog in this but what is the league average sv% for goalies with say 20+ starts? Here, for goalies above 800 minutes played (Or 19+ games played) http://www.puckalytics.com/goaliestats.html Johnson is 31st at 5v5 (.926), 24th for All Situations (.919), and 23rd in 5v5 situations in close games Lehner is 23rd in 5v5 (.928), 4th in All Situations (.926), and Lehner isn't even in the top 40 for 5v5 close The median for 5v5: .926 (27th, Anderson) The median for All Situations: .917 (30th, Ryan Miller) sv% just isn't what it used to be. The gaps between great/good/bad aren't very high in sv%. ' I highly encourage you to look at this http://war-on-ice.com/goalietable.html I can't embed the setting I set myself, so I encourage 800 minutes, and select your team to be Buffalo. Look at Adjusted Save Percentage. For fun, put LA and Boston on there True figured out how to get the whole table pasted onto here, I don't know how though Edited March 30, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Here, for goalies above 800 minutes played (Or 19+ games played) http://www.puckalytics.com/goaliestats.html Johnson is 31st at 5v5 (.926), 24th for All Situations (.919), and 23rd in 5v5 situations in close games Lehner is 23rd in 5v5 (.928), 4th in All Situations (.926), and Lehner isn't even in the top 40 for 5v5 close The median for 5v5: .926 (27th, Anderson) The median for All Situations: .917 (30th, Ryan Miller) hmm, so with a better defense we could conceivably use Johnson next year as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Here, for goalies above 800 minutes played (Or 19+ games played) http://www.puckalytics.com/goaliestats.html Johnson is 31st at 5v5 (.926), 24th for All Situations (.919), and 23rd in 5v5 situations in close games Lehner is 23rd in 5v5 (.928), 4th in All Situations (.926), and Lehner isn't even in the top 40 for 5v5 close The median for 5v5: .926 (27th, Anderson) The median for All Situations: .917 (30th, Ryan Miller) I chuckled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 Good find, I've been looking for a site like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 hmm, so with a better defense we could conceivably use Johnson next year as a starter. Sure, you could. Goalies are a dime a dozen. There are about 5 elite, then the rest are all the same, more or less. I'd prefer to not use Johnson, as I don't like his need to make miraculous saves, and his propensity to give up soft goals in the 3rd, but you could use him. He's very average, and he's durable. He's a great back up; no Lalime, that's for sure. In the playoffs though, or big games, I'd rather not rely on him in net I chuckled. Same here Good find, I've been looking for a site like that. war or puckanlytics? True showed me war. The unfortunate thing is, they're going offline after this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 DOH! I had that bookmarked.............. 'twas hidden. Sure, you could. Goalies are a dime a dozen. There are about 5 elite, then the rest are all the same, more or less. I'd prefer to not use Johnson, as I don't like his need to make miraculous saves, and his propensity to give up soft goals in the 3rd, but you could use him. He's very average, and he's durable. He's a great back up; no Lalime, that's for sure. In the playoffs though, or big games, I'd rather not rely on him in net Same here war or puckanlytics? True showed me war. The unfortunate thing is, they're going offline after this year Puckalytics. They're going offline? That's a shame.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Puckalytics. They're going offline? That's a shame.............. I need my stats! War is going offline, not puckalytics. You can find tons of sites with puckalytics stats, War is one of a kind All in all, Rask just kills it, Quick is probably overrated, Dallas is screwed, and Brian Elliot is really, really underrated Edited March 30, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) It doesn't, but many seem to be much more willing to give Ullmark and his issues the benefit of the doubt than Lehner and his issues, which is what I really don't understand. I'm skeptical of both. Tempered by by optimism from what we saw on the ice this year, this is the healthy attitude. What about kid from ND? I expect him to get start or two, unless he's had a setback in his recovery. Just wanted to mention the player we would have drafted. A little update so to speak. This will still be alive on the board three years from now when Lehner loses in the semi-finals after a 40-win season, and someone's favourite late first round prospect scores 15 goals. Ullmark is a younger, unknown talent who's only glimpses in every league have been very good, besides Rochester. Lehner cost a first rounder, has been hurt almost this entire year, and is a little older with good stats but nothing that will blow you away; we pretty much know what we're getting in LehnerLehner is still among the youngest starters in the league and is just two years older than Ullmark. You don't know what you are getting.Goalies at 24 are like forwards at 20 and defenceman at 22. He also has a better pedigree in the AHL, with scouts, and in the NHL. Ullmark had one - one - elite season in his career, the rest have been very mediocre. Lehner this year in Buffalo 2.47 average, .924 Sv% in 21 games Ullmark 2.58, .915 in 19 games. (Second-best numbers he has ever put up, btw) If it matters, he is 3.26 and .907 in 24 games with Rochester. I like Ullmark and hope for a situation like Taro spells out. But your post above is just wrong. Edited March 30, 2016 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 hmm, so with a better defense we could conceivably use Johnson next year as a starter. For all intents & purposes, through large stretches, they've used him this year as the starter. It's been fine this year, but they weren't going balls out for a playoff spot. The 1 bad goal he gives up nearly every game (to go along w/ the 2-3 killer saves nightly as well) could very likely keep them on the outside looking in. The higher ceiling of the Swedes is likely enough to get them in. But keeping Johnson gives them the option of only having 1 wild card in the deck if the wider range of possible results from the Swedes does start costing them games. It's good to have a Frank Reich as a backup - especially when you don't know you've got a Jimbo in front of him. But if you're relying on Frank to get it done day in & day out, you're really going to tax the rest of the squad. And the margin of error for the rest of them becomes razor thin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 30, 2016 Report Share Posted March 30, 2016 (edited) Lehner is still among the youngest starters in the league and is just two years older than Ullmark. You don't know what you are getting. Goalies at 24 are like forwards at 20 and defenceman at 22. He also has a better pedigree in the AHL, with scouts, and in the NHL. Ullmark had one - one - elite season in his career, the rest have been very mediocre. Lehner this year in Buffalo 2.47 average, .924 Sv% in 21 games Ullmark 2.58, .915 in 19 games. (Second-best numbers he has ever put up, btw) If it matters, he is 3.26 and .907 in 24 games with Rochester. I like Ullmark and hope for a situation like Taro spells out. But your post above is just wrong. What's wrong about it? Has Lehner blown you away? Is Lehner not always hurt? Do we know more about Lehner than Ullmark? You are right, maybe Lehner has something left to show us. Do you believe that? Ullmark won awards (the Vezina of the SHL); he performed very well in MODO. He did great for us as a rookie, and has struggled on a pathetic Rochester team Edited March 31, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJFIVEOH Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I need my stats! War is going offline, not puckalytics. You can find tons of sites with puckalytics stats, War is one of a kind All in all, Rask just kills it, Quick is probably overrated, Dallas is screwed, and Brian Elliot is really, really underrated Like you said, there are a small handful of elite goaltenders and all the rest are a dime a dozen. And in this day and age the difference between elite and "dimes" is slim. I just don't think that BFLO should risk losing a goaltender they know is consistent and durable while dealing with two unknowns. That is, of course, if he's willing to stay. Could they find better? Sure. But I don't think Murray is willing to invest time and money in a proven starter when he thinks he already has one. The next alternative is somebody like Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I think we should wait and see. Ullmark should probably spend an entire year in Rochester next season. I suppose we should see how Lehner heals up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 (edited) Like you said, there are a small handful of elite goaltenders and all the rest are a dime a dozen. And in this day and age the difference between elite and "dimes" is slim. I just don't think that BFLO should risk losing a goaltender they know is consistent and durable while dealing with two unknowns. That is, of course, if he's willing to stay. Could they find better? Sure. But I don't think Murray is willing to invest time and money in a proven starter when he thinks he already has one. The next alternative is somebody like Johnson. Fair enough, I agree with that. I just really don't want Johnson as 'the answer', but as a backup, I take him all day. Let Ullmark get his reps, and keep trying with the Lehner experiment All in all, our goalie situation is very good. Edited March 31, 2016 by WildCard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 If you weren't insinuating that Ullmark has shown more reason to get excited about his future than Lehner has, or that Lehner's ceiling has been established as average goalie and Ullmark's career has shown he has more upside, then I apologize. That's how I read it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 If you weren't insinuating that Ullmark has shown more reason to get excited about his future than Lehner has, or that Lehner's ceiling has been established as average goalie and Ullmark's career has shown he has more upside, then I apologize. That's how I read it. I mean, that is what I was saying, mostly :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 I mean, that is what I was saying, mostly :lol: Well then, you're wrong. ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted March 31, 2016 Report Share Posted March 31, 2016 FUCALE!! Why is Haile Selassie dressed up like a pilot, not to mention as a white dude, dropping what looks like a mic in that gif, Liger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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