To Tank or Not To Tank, that is the Question?

[Hoss]

To tank, or not to tank, that is the question:

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer

and get the prize of McEichel.

Or take arms against the sea of trouble,

and force our way near, but not to, the playoff bubble

 

I had to remember 15 lines of that soliloquy.

[PASabreFan]

Tank is the little brother here who follows, annoys, tweaks, challenges, infuriates, ingratiates. Alas, he will have the last laugh. He's going to decide what nursing home us old farts go to.

Edited December 16, 2014 by PASabreFan

[LGR4GM]

If this was say 3 years before the Canes won their 05-06 Cup, in terms of goaltender, you would be asking the same thing. Cam Ward was a rookie the year they won and sure wasn't their number 1 goaltender.

So you agree with my principal, excellent.

[Hoss]

 

So you agree with my principal, excellent.

 

What exactly is your principle then?

[LGR4GM]

What exactly is your principle then?

That 3 years from now we won't know exactly what this team will look like and it could look just fine without McEichel.

[Hoss]

 

That 3 years from now we won't know exactly what this team will look like and it could look just fine without McEichel.

 

Really? Because I'm pretty sure you were trying to say that the Canes don't have the defense and goaltending to win a couple like we do.

 

I'd like a breakdown of how exactly we were supposed to get there from what you said.

[LGR4GM]

Really? Because I'm pretty sure you were trying to say that the Canes don't have the defense and goaltending to win a couple like we do.

 

I'd like a breakdown of how exactly we were supposed to get there from what you said.

the Canes don't.

 

get to the cup? patience and hard work.

[I am Defecting]

He's making a list, checking it twice,

 

Gonna find out who's naughty or nice,

 

Santa Claus is coming to town.

 

He sees you when you're sleeping.

 

He knows when you're awake.

 

He knows if you've been bad or good,

 

So be Good, for goodness sake. (don't tank)

[X. Benedict]

So you agree with my principal, excellent.

I never agreed with my principal. He gave me detention just for drinking beer and smoking in the school board room when I should have been in wood shop.

[LGR4GM]

Apparently that down swing we all expect should be coming soon...

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/659056

Meanwhile, the Sabres' offense - beyond toothless for the first month and change - has benefited enormously from unsustainable finishing rates. The Sabres are converting on 10.9 percent of all shots on goal since Nov. 14, the third best mark in the league over that time frame (behind the New York Rangers and the Toronto Maple Leafs).

[Jsixspd]

As LGR4GM predicted, the down turn has hit the Sabres. They were lucky for a while, but the luck ran out.

 

Buffalo is still worst in the NHL in shots allowed per game @ 35.4. And they're also dead last in shots per game; 23.4

 

They have the worst differential in hockey - minus 12. That is just abominable. The next worst team in the NHL in that stat - Columbus - is a minus 5.8.

 

There's no team that's going to stay out of the cellar over a season with those stats.

[LGR4GM]

The other thing is Buffalo is awful on the road and much worse against starting gt.

[inkman]

As LGR4GM predicted, the down turn has hit the Sabres. They were lucky for a while, but the luck ran out.

 

Buffalo is still worst in the NHL in shots allowed per game @ 35.4. And they're also dead last in shots per game; 23.4

 

They have the worst differential in hockey - minus 12. That is just abominable. The next worst team in the NHL in that stat - Columbus - is a minus 5.8.

 

There's no team that's going to stay out of the cellar over a season with those stats.

But, but this young hungry group of players can defy statistics that have held true to every team ever. They just try harder than the other team, talent doesn't matter. :rolleyes:

[TrueBlueGED]

 

But, but this young hungry group of players can defy statistics that have held true to every team ever. They just try harder than the other team, talent doesn't matter. :rolleyes:

 

I'm glad you're around to do the snark for me :)

[Claude_Verret]

We're so scarred as Buffalo sports fans that many of us can't even have faith that we can be the best at sucking. F that I say, we are the worst and will be rewarded as such. Believe in the shart.

[Byebye]

 

Alright you smug little... individual.

 

let us start with the year after they won the cup:

2010: Lost Conference Semifinals

2011: Lost Conference Quarterfinals

2012: Lost Conference Quaterfinals

2013; Lost Conference Finals

2014: Lost Conference Semifinals

 

They have not been a cup contender since they won it and have only graced the Eastern Conference Finals once in the last 5 years. The are a perpetual playoff team. This year I would not count them as cup contenders. They continue to lack GT, Depth, and Defense.

 

9 straight Stanley Cup appearances, while winning the Stanley Cup once. Most of those seasons were spent very near the top of the Eastern conference standings. Let's not forget that Crosby was dealing with concussions in that time as well.

 

This is the salary cap era, it's a more level playing field, teams don't win 5 straight cups anymore. If we end up anything like Pittsburgh, something tells me you'll be the only one whose malcontent.

[SabresFanInRochester]

When the 2014-15 season began, my expectation was that the Sabres would be horrible, and so I was in favor of the tank, while the youngsters developed. I have seen great things out of the kids -- Zemgus, Risto, Zadorov, and Grigo. I even consider Myers young and love his game this year. When they went on their excellent 14-game stretch, and blew past Carolina and Edmonton, I thought maybe the team matured and the kids were ready. Even though statisticians were showing the Sabres were still horrible, I wanted to believe things were different. It appears it was just a fluke as they are playing some really bad hockey again.

 

I think the youngsters are learning, but still a ways off, especially with consistency. And I really want to see Myers stay in a Buffalo jersey. Every team has a whipping boy, and Buffalo has at least three -- Stafford, Weber, and Myers. I think that's based on past year's efforts, and I like the game out of all three, although I would hope that perhaps only Myers remains as the core. If you can get future assets for Stafford or Weber, okay. The team has historically played poorly without Myers, and although someone is going to pull up their record with and without, or his plus-minus -- anecdotally, the team is better with Myers in the lineup.

 

With that -- Tank baby.

 

Since Carolina got Stahl back, they seem to be improved too much to contend as a last place team. I think we can pass them and reclaim 29th before the end of this week.

 

I am worried about Edmonton. They just acquired Derek Roy and that can only help their tank. I have never been a fan. I watched their shootout loss a couple games ago and when they started with Roy as the first shooter, I immediately thought they were trying to lose on purpose. No way Roy is more talented or better in a shootout than all the young guns in Edmonton. I hope they can pass Edmonton, but I could really see a 29th place finish for Buffalo and some team wins the lottery knocking Buffalo to the 3rd overall pick.

 

Perfect world in the sports today would be Edmonton knocks off the Islanders, in regulation, and Tavares contracts the mumps -- because I would never root for someone to get injured. I cannot believe the Islanders are as good as their record shows and I wonder how fast they would plummet without Tavares. The Islanders on a 20-game losing slide is the tank I most want to see.

[inkman]

Roy seems like a decent choice

 

http://www.nhl.com/ice/shootoutstats.htm?fetchKey=20152EDMSAZALL&sort=goals&viewName=shootoutSkaterCareerTotals

[LastPommerFan]

Roy seems like a decent choice

 

http://www.nhl.com/i...terCareerTotals

 

Related question: Is he the only player on that team that has scored a playoff goal?

[SabresFanInRochester]

Roy seems like a decent choice

 

http://www.nhl.com/i...terCareerTotals

 

I don't know... that's what the stats say, but drag Kotalik back into the NHL and let him do a shootout now. His numbers likely look great! But past performance does not dictate future results.

 

Ryan N-H, Eberle, Hall, Hendricks, ... and you pick Roy to go first?

[Hoss]

Related question: Is he the only player on that team that has scored a playoff goal?

 

This actually made me curious... Their current roster has:

 

15 players who have never played in the postseason and/or never registered a postseason point:

Eberle, Gazdic, Hall, Klinkhammer, Lander, RNH, Pitlick, Yakupov, Klefbom, Petry, Schultz, Fasth, Scrivens, Nikitan (5 PS games played), Aulie (1 PS game played)

 

8 players who have combined for 31-80-111 in 359 games...

Matt Fraser (4 games, 1-1-2), Boyd Gordon (52 games, 1-6-7), Matt Hendricks (34 games 1-1-2), Benoit Pouliot (54 games 6-8-14), Teddy Purcell (22 games 7-11-18), Derek Roy (49 games 7-20-27), Mark Fayne (24 games 3 assists), Andrew Ference (120 games 8-30-38)

[inkman]

I don't know... that's what the stats say, but drag Kotalik back into the NHL and let him do a shootout now. His numbers likely look great! But past performance does not dictate future results.

 

Ryan N-H, Eberle, Hall, Hendricks, ... and you pick Roy to go first?

So you really think they chose Roy in a shootout with the intention of him missing, despite scoring the second most shoot out goals on the team, in order to lose?

[SabresFanInRochester]

So you really think they chose Roy in a shootout with the intention of him missing, despite scoring the second most shoot out goals on the team, in order to lose?

 

I have been laid more than the typical 18-year old, but that doesn't mean I'm a casanova -- just older with more opportunities.

[inkman]

I have been laid more than the typical 18-year old, but that doesn't mean I'm a casanova -- just older with more opportunities.

Sydney Crosby has been notoriously bad in shootouts and is rarely picked first. Also, if every team gets 3 shooters, does it matter who goes 1,2 or 3?

[SabresFanInRochester]

No need for us to battle on this. As a Sabres fan who never cared for Derek Roy's game, my point was that Roy's still hurting Buffalo by not scoring a clutch goal.

 

You bring up a good point with your question -- does the order matter? That is embodied mostly into the psychology of the game and that area fascinates me.

 

In baseball, a lineup order matters because you want to get on base with your lead off and get him around with your cleanup. In hockey, does your team want to shoot first, or defend? Do you want to have your strongest player go first and establish a lead or save him for an ace-in-the-hole? Statistically, it wouldn't really matter if someone scores on their first attempt, or if they score by going last. But psychologically, do you give your team a lift if you score first? Or put added pressure on the other team? Or get into the goalie's head? Or even help your goalie relax. NHL players perform at the highest level and would likely give a canned response of "it doesn't matter" but their mentality has to be impacted in some capacity.

 

When Oshie scored his shootout goals during the Olympics, I was astonished. The opposing goalie thinking -- he keeps beating me glove-side... is he going to try glove-side again? Or the opposing Russian shooters frustrated with thoughts that one person is taking them down. Did Oshie's confidence grow after the first couple rounds, or did the pressure mount when he was repeatedly called on. (Statistically, you would think confidence soared, but only he will know the answer to that question.) I just love that stuff! That is why I love sports -- you can see how people respond, and you can judge a lot about their character as a result.

 

Off the topic, but related, last night on Celebrity Apprentice, Pierce Morgan was on the advisory board and made a comment to Jamie Anderson, an Olympic gold medalist, that I had a problem with. Jamie was asked who she would fire, and she didn't want to give a name, so she said flip a coin. Pierce said that as a competitive athlete she should know how to go after her competitors more aggressively. Especially in Jamie's sport of snowboarding, you don't go after your competition -- do you hope that your competitors fall and give you an easy gold? Or do you want them to excel and challenge yourself to do better? I think a true athlete realizes that if you rise to the occasion, you don't need your competition to mess up to exploit them. You would already be able to beat them and so why cheapen the victory by doing so. Pierce doesn't see it that way, and that's why I think he's a weasel. Pierce wanted Jamie to make someone else look bad to make her look better. If you perform at the top of your game, you don't need to do that.

 

One other off the topic comment from Celebrity Apprentice, Shawn Johnson was asked in the boardroom if she thought her team won, and she said no. I think that is refreshing, but the reaction by some was that she shouldn't have said that. If you know your team laid an egg, why give the canned response and pretend. She knew that the other team had a better performance and she identified and justified that . I think that is strong! I wish some businesses and most politicians were more along the lines of this mentality instead of the tactics they currently employ. Could you imagine winning a political campaign because you're better, not because the opposing candidate is worse?

 

Way too much in this post -- my bad.