mphs mike Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think we have at a minimum, two more years with these two. We have to assume that Black, Pegula, Ruff and Regier had a state of the Sabres meeting when Pegula first showed up, discussing short and long term goals. We don't know and weren't told what that plan is, but I'd like to think that shrader was on to something when he said it looked like they were overhauling the D with some tweeks to the forwards in year one, then overhaul the rest of the forwards with some tweeks to the D in year two. It's not a bad plan and they seem to have done an okay job in year 1. We know that they were working under constraints during the previous owners. I think it will be interesting to see if they have what it takes to make it work when those constraints are removed. Three years is probably what they will be given under Black to prove themselves (dear God please let it only be three years). The only thing I will disagree with here is that I can foresee a possible change a year from now if TP/Black don't see that R&R have followed through on the "master plan" all agreed upon a year ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 You mean 12 months, we'll be here a year from now discussing the same exact thing after another historic run to 9th place. Like many, I am sure he thought they would be back and hoped they wouldn't. i really think we have a shot for 7th or 8th place just think what Lindy can do when everyone is healthy LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdexchange Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Take a look at Bill Cowher's results before he won a Super Bowl....it's amazingly similar to Ruff. Then Cowher gets better players, and he wins it all. Coaching is overrated. Bill Cowher hates toughness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 It appears that the core and lindy r out of touch. So this could signal major changes in make up of team for next year. My problem is I have lost faith in ruff as a coach and don't think that just getting rid of Roy, Vanek n stafford will matter Mobile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 It appears that the core and lindy r out of touch. So this could signal major changes in make up of team for next year. My problem is I have lost faith in ruff as a coach and don't think that just getting rid of Roy, Vanek n stafford will matter Mobile It could mean that, but I'm thinking they'll feel that many who make up the core will realize they need to be as fully engaged in the fall as they are in the spring. In other words, that they learned a lesson from missing the playoffs this season. I wouldn't be surprised if Bflo moves a couple of people, but for better or worse, I don't expect them to make wholesale changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetterDays06 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I loved what I heard from Ted Black today. When asked by Hamilton about a need for a top 6 center black said "there is also another need, and that's toughness". I hope we can get that top center and those few gritty players we are lacking. Anyone else like what black said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I loved what I heard from Ted Black today. When asked by Hamilton about a need for a top 6 center black said "there is also another need, and that's toughness". I hope we can get that top center and those few gritty players we are lacking. Anyone else like what black said? I loved what I heard from Ted Black today. When asked by Hamilton about a need for a top 6 center black said "there is also another need, and that's toughness". I hope we can get that top center and those few gritty players we are lacking. Anyone else like what black said? I love reading that and I hope that they do address it. Who knows, maybe several of the "core" are on their way out after all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I loved what I heard from Ted Black today. When asked by Hamilton about a need for a top 6 center black said "there is also another need, and that's toughness". I hope we can get that top center and those few gritty players we are lacking. Anyone else like what black said? It encourages that Black sees what we see. A team with some real wusses on it that need to be moved in favor of some guys with heart, but also skill. It encourages me to believe that Roy is definitely gone this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redemption City Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 It's nice that Black sees it, it'd be even nicer if Darcy was saying they need toughness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 It's nice that Black sees it, it'd be even nicer if Darcy was saying they need toughness. He did deal Kassian for Hodgson, thats gotta be a sign that Darcy agrees that they need to get tougher! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 He did deal Kassian for Hodgson, thats gotta be a sign that Darcy agrees that they need to get tougher! I'm optimistic that that will turn out to be a good trade, so I'll accept the decrease in toughness there. I think it's more disturbing how rarely the Sabres have drafted for size and toughness over the last few years. They really focused on it in 2009 (Kassian, McNabb, and Foligno with their first three picks) and it seemed to work, but nobody from the last two years stands out for size/toughness. I hope they go back to mining the draft for size and grit again this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redemption City Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think I'd rather they get skill in the draft, and look for proven toughness in free agency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think I'd rather they get skill in the draft, and look for proven toughness in free agency. I think that's what they'd rather do, but it hasn't worked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 He did deal Kassian for Hodgson, thats gotta be a sign that Darcy agrees that they need to get tougher! You'd decline that trade? Hodgson is a better prospect than Kassian and we needed a top 2 center. Kass is great but toughness is easier to come by than top line center talent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I think that's what they'd rather do, but it hasn't worked. From a draft perspective, It really is harder to tell if an 18 year old's toughness will translate into the NHL than his skill. An NHL shot, or skating skill is easier to spot than NHL ready toughness. Most 18 year old's just don't have it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 From a draft perspective, It really is harder to tell if an 18 year old's toughness will translate into the NHL than his skill. An NHL shot, or skating skill is easier to spot than NHL ready toughness. Most 18 year old's just don't have it yet. The NHL draft has a couple "sure things" at the very top and everything is uncertain after that. I just wish they'd gamble on size/toughness a little more often than they gamble on skill. Regier has been the GM long enough that we have some idea how he prioritizes things. I'm still haunted by the 2000 draft, when Brooks Orpik (a local guy and the big, scary defenseman Sabres fans had been dreaming about for years) fell to them and they decided they liked Artem Kruikov better. Kruikov -- The Russian Concussion -- never saw the NHL and never really amounted to anything in Russia either. This isn't scientific but I have to imagine that if you add Brooks Orpik to the 2005-2006 Sabres and 2006-2007 Sabres, those teams get significantly closer to winning the Cup. (And they weren't far off to begin with.) I want a GM who won't make that mistake again. I don't think I have one. Just take more chances on guys who could be big and tough instead of guys who could be the NHL's next undersized scoring phenom. We did this in 2009 and (to a lesser extent) 2008 and those are probably Regier's best drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 From a draft perspective, It really is harder to tell if an 18 year old's toughness will translate into the NHL than his skill. An NHL shot, or skating skill is easier to spot than NHL ready toughness. Most 18 year old's just don't have it yet. Exactly, it's easier to be tough in juniors if you're 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than everybody else. But what happens when half of the other team is as big, or bigger? On the other hand...an accurate shot is an accurate shot, a laser-like slapper is a laser-like slapper, blue line to blue line acceleration is blue line to blue line acceleration, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Exactly, it's easier to be tough in juniors if you're 3 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier than everybody else. But what happens when half of the other team is as big, or bigger? On the other hand...an accurate shot is an accurate shot, a laser-like slapper is a laser-like slapper, blue line to blue line acceleration is blue line to blue line acceleration, and so on. It's also easier to be a scorer in juniors where defensemen aren't savvy (or big) and goalies aren't all that good. There are tons of guys in juniors who put up numbers and don't even get drafted. There are guys in the AHL who can score 40 goals a year but can't do nearly the same thing in the NHL. Even with skill, it's not clear who can make it work in the NHL and who can't. Very few prospects are sure things. You have to gamble on something. It shouldn't always be skill and it shouldn't always be size/toughness, but I wouldn't mind if we tried for size/toughness a little more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 The NHL draft has a couple "sure things" at the very top and everything is uncertain after that. I just wish they'd gamble on size/toughness a little more often than they gamble on skill. Regier has been the GM long enough that we have some idea how he prioritizes things. I'm still haunted by the 2000 draft, when Brooks Orpik (a local guy and the big, scary defenseman Sabres fans had been dreaming about for years) fell to them and they decided they liked Artem Kruikov better. Kruikov -- The Russian Concussion -- never saw the NHL and never really amounted to anything in Russia either. This isn't scientific but I have to imagine that if you add Brooks Orpik to the 2005-2006 Sabres and 2006-2007 Sabres, those teams get significantly closer to winning the Cup. (And they weren't far off to begin with.) I want a GM who won't make that mistake again. I don't think I have one. Just take more chances on guys who could be big and tough instead of guys who could be the NHL's next undersized scoring phenom. We did this in 2009 and (to a lesser extent) 2008 and those are probably Regier's best drafts. I'm personally glad we drafted Andrew Peters in the 1998 draft's second round over Mike Ribeiro :P . I know what you're saying, but with the NHL draft being such a complete crapshoot, I want my team taking who they believe has the best chance of being the best player at any particular slot. Size should only really be a determining factor when everything else is equal (or close enough where a coin flip could decide between the players), and really, we have no idea of knowing how close any of these guys have been rated on the Sabres' draft board. It's also easier to be a scorer in juniors where defensemen aren't savvy (or big) and goalies aren't all that good. There are tons of guys in juniors who put up numbers and don't even get drafted. There are guys in the AHL who can score 40 goals a year but can't do nearly the same thing in the NHL. Even with skill, it's not clear who can make it work in the NHL and who can't. Very few prospects are sure things. You have to gamble on something. It shouldn't always be skill and it shouldn't always be size/toughness, but I wouldn't mind if we tried for size/toughness a little more often. I'm not talking about scoring though, that can be done by just looking at a stat sheet. Velocity and accuracy of a shot can be objectively determined, end to end speed can be objectively determined....whether those translate into scoring is reliant on any number of other factors which of course may or may not work in the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 I'm still waiting for some evidence that he's keeping them around because of friendship. Take a look at Bill Cowher's results before he won a Super Bowl....it's amazingly similar to Ruff. Then Cowher gets better players, and he wins it all. Coaching is overrated. Did you even look? 5 Division Championships in his first six years and he didn't have a Hasek carrying him. You'd decline that trade? Hodgson is a better prospect than Kassian and we needed a top 2 center. Kass is great but toughness is easier to come by than top line center talent Enjoy the Hodgson/Kassian trade now. In a few years many will be looking back going WTF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 12, 2012 Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 Enjoy the Hodgson/Kassian trade now. In a few years many will be looking back going WTF. On which coast? Sure Buffalo paid a lot to get Hodgson, but the offseason is already off to a good start simply because Hodgson is a much better deal than paying 5-6 million for Jarret Stoll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 On which coast? Sure Buffalo paid a lot to get Hodgson, but the offseason is already off to a good start simply because Hodgson is a much better deal than paying 5-6 million for Jarret Stoll. Hodgson will be Stafford in a few years. I wouldn't pay Stoll 5-6 mil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Did you even look? 5 Division Championships in his first six years and he didn't have a Hasek carrying him. So what is it, do regular seasons matter or only the playoffs? Because Cowher's Steelers had a history of disappointing in the playoffs. Cowher: http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/CowhBi0.htm#coaching_results::none Ruff: http://www.hockey-reference.com/coaches/ruffli01c.html So in Cowher's first 6 season he had 5 division championships.....and a 4-6 playoff record. Ruff's first 6 seasons, he had a 6-4 playoff series record. They do have amazingly similar records, so of course I expect you to fall back on the Hasek argument....in which case, that just confirms that coaching is overrated and players are more important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 I wouldn't pay Stoll 5-6 mil. .....neither would I....but centers are no longer getting to market, and when they do, they fetch a premium. Why such a dim view of Hodgson? this may be optimistic in tone .....but it ain't your average flower that spends his free time with Gary Roberts. http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/45945-Kennedy-Cody-Hodgson-due-for-breakout-season-in-201213.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheChimp Posted April 13, 2012 Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 Hodgson will be Stafford in a few years. I wouldn't pay Stoll 5-6 mil. So Hodgson will be finally sitting on a line where he can anticipate his production to skyrocket? Yes, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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