shrader Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 I don't think you are trying, then. Biron was always good for a WTF goal at the end of a game. In fact, when Biron went deep in the playoffs with Philly, in the first two rounds, those goals never happened and I remember being shocked by that. In the Conference finals, though, they returned. The Biron WTF goals were usually pretty comical too. The most common one was a very low angle shot somehow squeezing between his leg and the post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 attendance and ratings were so low they almost moved...remember? I know they had a crook owner, but that arena was empty. Attendance and ratings (maybe) were low because the team was bankrupt. They didn't almost move. Ryan called his teammates "fragile little kids" this season. He also admitted, actually while the team was still winning a lot in January, that he had been "pissed off" for months about the way his teammates were playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 The bolded statement is nonsense. Marty helps, in theory, by being able to play a bit more than Lalime and thus giving Miller more rest. Miller got 68 out of 82 starts this past year. Lalime got 14 starts and just 4 wins. I don't see Miller ever getting below 62 or so if he's healthy, but I think having Marty would allow (i) Miller to drop down to about 62 starts and (ii) the team to get more wins/points in the games that Marty starts than those that Lalime started. Getting Marty might allow RUFF the opportunity to drop Miller down to about 62 starts. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 I'm not sure what to make of this idea that Philly proved you could go far without an elite goalie. They played one team with a potent offense in the playoff and that team beat them. I'm not sure if this shows anything more than you can go far with a mediocre goalie if you have a fortunate draw in the playoffs. not saying it proved anything, but it did tend to suggest it. also not saying that correlation is the same as causation. also not sure what that last sentence means, but it sounds nice. at the end of the day, the flyers got goaltending that was good enough to get them into the SCF. for me, the analysis can end right there. you can talk about a fortunate draw throughout the east, but, IMO, if you're not getting some very good goaltending, you're not getting into the SCF. the irony, of course, is that it was their goaltending that arguably cost them in the end (leighton let in two groaners in game 6, including kane's cup-clincher). that irony tends to push me back toward being glad that we have miller as our backstop. my point is this: i no longer view a great/elite goalie as an asset that a team should never move in the absence of an earth-moving offer. there's more than one way (more than two or three ways) to skin the cat. the hawks brought home the hardware by riding a guy who split time with the frickin' rockford icehogs last year. and the examples don't end there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 not saying it proved anything, but it did tend to suggest it. also not saying that correlation is the same as causation. also not sure what that last sentence means, but it sounds nice. at the end of the day, the flyers got goaltending that was good enough to get them into the SCF. for me, the analysis can end right there. you can talk about a fortunate draw throughout the east, but, IMO, if you're not getting some very good goaltending, you're not getting into the SCF. the irony, of course, is that it was their goaltending that arguably cost them in the end (leighton let in two groaners in game 6, including kane's cup-clincher). that irony tends to push me back toward being glad that we have miller as our backstop. Personally, I think this run from the Flyers was a bit of a fluke, but at the end of the day, they'll always be the 2010 Eastern Conference champions. In the big picture, it doesn't matter why they won. my point is this: i no longer view a great/elite goalie as an asset that a team should never move in the absence of an earth-moving offer. there's more than one way (more than two or three ways) to skin the cat. the hawks brought home the hardware by riding a guy who split time with the frickin' rockford icehogs last year. and the examples don't end there. Yeah, it's not 100% essential to winning, but from the Sabres point of view, they aren't exactly full of stengths across the roster. You have to have something to win it all. People can debate Miller all they want, but if they were to move him, the return better be through the roof because it would leave one giant hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 People can debate Miller all they want, but if they were to move him, the return better be through the roof because it would leave one giant hole. fair deuce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTTOnME Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Has any team ever traded its number one goalie to free up cap space? Especially when there really was no one in the system realistically able to assume the role of the number one goalie? To be perfectly honest, I cannot imagine any GM doing it, and I can only laugh at the thought of what Darcy Regier's response would be to such a suggestion. Reliable goaltending is a terrible thing to give away. Ask the Leafs what it's like to be without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresneedaCup Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Biron did not play those 14 games in a row. He had nights off and such. This team is top half in goals because they know how to score against teams like Toronto, Tampa, Florida, etc. And as for stealing that playoff series, Boston beat the Sabres 4 times out of 6 in the regular season, just like they did in Round 1. The only Sabres goalie to beat Boston this season was Miller. If you think Miller is the problem on this team, why didn't Lalime post similar numbers when he played? Miller looks like the only one on the team that is bothered by losing. Can you find Miller insulting the team in Print? I want to see it. I've never seen or heard him be anything but a class act. Did you get a prank phone call from someone pretending to be Ryan Miller? Miller steals games on a regular basis, and Biron isn't even good enough to back-up the ISLANDERS! I know Miller isn't the whole team, but tell me who is going to show up and play every night at his level. Roy? Connolly? Gaustad? This is like listening to Anne Coulter spew nonsense. You had nothing whatsoever to back up what you said. i never said he was the problem i said hes overrated. and i dont know what your talkin about with biron he definately won 14 games in a row. period. i also didnt say lalime was as good as miller. dude your puttin words in my mouth and makin stuff up. give it a rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresneedaCup Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Has any team ever traded its number one goalie to free up cap space? Especially when there really was no one in the system realistically able to assume the role of the number one goalie? To be perfectly honest, I cannot imagine any GM doing it, and I can only laugh at the thought of what Darcy Regier's response would be to such a suggestion. Reliable goaltending is a terrible thing to give away. Ask the Leafs what it's like to be without it. we can trade for a goalie or sign one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresneedaCup Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 The bolded statement is nonsense. Marty helps, in theory, by being able to play a bit more than Lalime and thus giving Miller more rest. Miller got 68 out of 82 starts this past year. Lalime got 14 starts and just 4 wins. I don't see Miller ever getting below 62 or so if he's healthy, but I think having Marty would allow (i) Miller to drop down to about 62 starts and (ii) the team to get more wins/points in the games that Marty starts than those that Lalime started. Very few posters here think Miller is the whole team. I think most just think Miller is clearly the better goalie, and this has been proven by (i) Miller beating out Biron for the job in Buffalo and (ii) Miller developing into an elite goalie here while Biron has failed to secure a #1 job elsewhere. Don't forget that Marty had had many, many opportunities to earn the #1 job in Buffalo and wasn't able to do so. As for saying the team is weak minded -- do you disagree? And do you not think a team leader (which Miller is) should call out his teammates when needed? I too was surprised when Marty got Philly into the conf. finals (but happy for him too as he seems like a really good guy). Still, Philly decided that he wasn't worth keeping around. once again miller never beat out biron for the starting job. they chose miller because he was younger. biron proved himself as a number 1 goalie. look up his stats from before the lockout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 once again miller never beat out biron for the starting job. they chose miller because he was younger. biron proved himself as a number 1 goalie. look up his stats from before the lockout. Nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresneedaCup Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 you are nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 im sying compare birons stats before the lockout and millers years after the lockout, biron was better. and why was it a no brainer to keep miller? i think if anything when biron got traded him and miller where equal and i think they decided to trade him because miller was younger. so compare biron's stats before the lockout with clutching and grabbing... and then compare with miller's stats after the lockout in a wide open NHL when he's a rookie. OK. Biron: 2001-2002 Sabres 72 31-28-10 .915 2.22 2002-2003 Sabres 54 17-28-6 .908 2.56 2003-2004 Sabres 52 26-18-5 .913 2.52 Miller: 2005-2006 Sabres 48 30-14 .914 2.60 2006-2007 Sabres 63 40-16-6 .911 2.73 2007-2008 Sabres 76 36-27-10 .906 2.64 2008-2009 Sabres 59 34-18-6 .918 2.53 2009-2010 Sabres 69 41-18-8 .929 2.22 Yup Biron's Pre lockout numbers are on average, 1/10th better than Miller's Post lockout, rookie - average, but I have a feeling that means something to you so here you go. Career stats: Biron: NHL TOTALS .910 2.63 Miller: NHL TOTALS .914 2.57 And the funny thing is, Miller keeps getting better every year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 so compare biron's stats before the lockout with clutching and grabbing... and then compare with miller's stats after the lockout in a wide open NHL when he's a rookie. OK. Biron: 2001-2002 Sabres 72 31-28-10 .915 2.22 2002-2003 Sabres 54 17-28-6 .908 2.56 2003-2004 Sabres 52 26-18-5 .913 2.52 Miller: 2005-2006 Sabres 48 30-14 .914 2.60 2006-2007 Sabres 63 40-16-6 .911 2.73 2007-2008 Sabres 76 36-27-10 .906 2.64 2008-2009 Sabres 59 34-18-6 .918 2.53 2009-2010 Sabres 69 41-18-8 .929 2.22 Yup Biron's Pre lockout numbers are on average, 1/10th better than Miller's Post lockout, rookie - average, but I have a feeling that means something to you so here you go. Career stats: Biron: NHL TOTALS .910 2.63 Miller: NHL TOTALS .914 2.57 And the funny thing is, Miller keeps getting better every year... But he has crooked eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresneedaCup Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 so compare biron's stats before the lockout with clutching and grabbing... and then compare with miller's stats after the lockout in a wide open NHL when he's a rookie. OK. Biron: 2001-2002 Sabres 72 31-28-10 .915 2.22 2002-2003 Sabres 54 17-28-6 .908 2.56 2003-2004 Sabres 52 26-18-5 .913 2.52 Miller: 2005-2006 Sabres 48 30-14 .914 2.60 2006-2007 Sabres 63 40-16-6 .911 2.73 2007-2008 Sabres 76 36-27-10 .906 2.64 2008-2009 Sabres 59 34-18-6 .918 2.53 2009-2010 Sabres 69 41-18-8 .929 2.22 Yup Biron's Pre lockout numbers are on average, 1/10th better than Miller's Post lockout, rookie - average, but I have a feeling that means something to you so here you go. Career stats: Biron: NHL TOTALS .910 2.63 Miller: NHL TOTALS .914 2.57 And the funny thing is, Miller keeps getting better every year... duuuude i did say miller is better than biron now. but when they were both here miller was not better. read my posts more thoroughly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 duuuude i did say miller is better than biron now. but when they were both here miller was not better. read my posts more thoroughly. 2005-2006: Miller- 48 GP, 2.60 GAA, 0.914 S% Biron- 35, 2.88, 0.905 2006-2007: Miller- 63, 2.73, 0.911 Biron- 19, 3.04, 0.899 Miller also had 18 games pre-lockout, but I won't bother listing those since it's such a small number spread out over 2 seasons. So what in these stats exactly backs up your idea that Biron was better while they were both here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannustyrannus Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 But he has crooked eyes. and owls have crooked ears but can hear a mouse's footsteps 100 yards away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 and owls have crooked ears but can hear a mouse's footsteps 100 yards away. (Blinkin catches arrow) Ahchoo: Blinkin! How did you do that? Blinkin: I heard that coming a mile away. Robin Hood: Right-o, Blinkin, very good. Blinkin: Pardon? Who's talking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 For the record, SabresneedaCup is at least close. Biron had a 13 game winning streak. But Miller was still the better goalie that year. I think even Marty knew that. That's why he was so amenable to the whole situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goosed Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 What does the expression "if it wasn't for (insert name of goalie)" really mean? Who was going to be in goal, a Fathead of Rush Limbaugh? ...making the point that Miller has stolen games and been soley responsible for the Sabres having any hope for the playoffs for the past 3 seasons. Without him yes games would've been won but we would've been much lower in the rankings than we were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 For the record, SabresneedaCup is at least close. Biron had a 13 game winning streak. But Miller was still the better goalie that year. I think even Marty knew that. That's why he was so amenable to the whole situation. Marty was so amenable to the situation because that's the kind of guy he is. I'm sure he wasn't happy with it, but he's just no the guy that's going to rock the boat. He may make his feelings known privately to Darcy, but he's not going to take it public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DR HOLLIDAY Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 This thread is pure garbage. All this crap about not needing a goalie to win the cup, do you think the flyers would have like to have Miller in the net during the playoffs? They would have beat Chicago if they had some better goaltending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 you are nonsense. Someone earlier called you a "troll". I can't figure out why... :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresneedaCup Posted June 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 2005-2006: Miller- 48 GP, 2.60 GAA, 0.914 S% Biron- 35, 2.88, 0.905 2006-2007: Miller- 63, 2.73, 0.911 Biron- 19, 3.04, 0.899 Miller also had 18 games pre-lockout, but I won't bother listing those since it's such a small number spread out over 2 seasons. So what in these stats exactly backs up your idea that Biron was better while they were both here? ok so miller was better stat wise in those years but i watched all of those games and couldnt see why they thought he was better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresneedaCup Posted June 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 For the record, SabresneedaCup is at least close. Biron had a 13 game winning streak. But Miller was still the better goalie that year. I think even Marty knew that. That's why he was so amenable to the whole situation. why was he better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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