wonderbread Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 You've earned the right to pile on even if it has become rather lame coming from some. Is that a shot at me I believe I used a 5 x 5 reference in the pommers thread. If so consider your face slapped with my duel glove. If not...carry on. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 You sound like you have some background in law, doesn't "physically fit" seem remarkably vague for contract language? I have a background invloving the law, does that qualify me to speak about contract language? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I have a background invloving the law, does that qualify me to speak about contract language? I can't speak to qualify, but your opinion is always welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Is that a shot at me I believe I used a 5 x 5 reference in the pommers thread. If so consider your face slapped with my duel glove. If not...carry on. :P No, your attempts at humor seem to be in the context of other post worthy thoughts. On the other hand, a decent duel could be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Very vague. But I don't think the players have a leg to stand on here. The sentiment seems to be that he should have been payed all along. But 2.6 million is a lot of tickets to buy good will. more than 50,000 $50 tickets. I just had to slip a 5x5 in today. In a serious take, I am not sure $2.6 million is a lot ot pay for goodwill when you are talking about $50 million dollar payrolls. You get a home town disount here, another guy comes for a little less there and suddenly you start to get that $2.6 million back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 No, your attempts at humor seem to be in the context of other post worthy thoughts. On the other hand, a decent duel could be fun. We meet in the field of onion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Very vague. But I don't think the players have a leg to stand on here. The sentiment seems to be that he should have been payed all along. But 2.6 million is a lot of tickets to buy good will. more than 50,000 $50 tickets. I just had to slip a 5x5 in today. I never had the "he should have been paid right along sentiment" but when January did role around and we saw a team awash in inconsistency and leadership I did think bringing him in even as a Player coach (like we used Patrick in his twilight years) while he got into game shape would've been worth a little bit of money and I still do now. However he may not want it anymore.. A little speculation because this board is for that anyway right ? Whose our player rep ? Goose ? Do you think the rest of the team knows/knew about the greivance. When exactly was it filed and when was that losing Funk the whole team was in for awhile, could it have been a little of that old union blue flu disease going around ? Pure speculation but I'm sure the attitude of management is not lost on the team or coach when they see this type of stuff and I know certain members of my work team would have less then a go to wall for them attitude if they thought management was not supporting or showing respect to their peers or other's that they respected or didn't go to bat for them when they should have. Thats just how it works.. Maybe thats whys some of the kids look so good they just don't know any better... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I have a background invloving the law, does that qualify me to speak about contract language? I just realized that your post may have been tongue in cheek. Sorry if your humor was initially lost on me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I have a background invloving the law, does that qualify me to speak about contract language? Ahh thats right they allow internet access now in Prisons, makes the admirer comments make sense to me now.. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimiVbaby Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I never had the "he should have been paid right along sentiment" but when January did role around and we saw a team awash in inconsistency and leadership I did think bringing him in even as a Player coach (like we used Patrick in his twilight years) while he got into game shape would've been worth a little bit of money and I still do now. However he may not want it anymore.. A little speculation because this board is for that anyway right ? Whose our player rep ? Goose ? Do you think the rest of the team knows/knew about the greivance. When exactly was it filed and when was that losing Funk the whole team was in for awhile, could it have been a little of that old union blue flu disease going around ? Pure speculation but I'm sure the attitude of management is not lost on the team or coach when they see this type of stuff and I know certain members of my work team would have less then a go to wall for them attitude if they thought management was not supporting or showing respect to their peers or other's that they respected or didn't go to bat for them when they should have. Thats just how it works.. Maybe thats whys some of the kids look so good they just don't know any better... In all seriousness, I believe it's Andrew Peters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 You sound like you have some background in law, doesn't "physically fit" seem remarkably vague for contract language? Very. I heard, I think from Darcy's talk, because of Teppo heart issues they had him sign an additional clause in his contract to 'un'-vague this. Something to the effect that he needed to actually play. For all players they have a "Fitness to Play Determination Form" Which states: FITNESS TO PLAY DETERMINATION FORM NHL/NHLPA Fitness to Play Determination Form (Applicable for Club Physician/Player Physician/ Independent Physician) I, _______________, the [Club's Physician/Player's Physician/ Independent Physician] Name of Physician [circle one] examined ____________ on ____, in connection with the Player's [identify nature of injury, illness, condition or complaint that was the subject of the examination]: and [Check one] [ ] It is my determination that the Player is disabled and unable to perform his duties as an NHL hockey Player, which duties include playing in NHL Games. [ ] It is my determination that the Player is not disabled and is able to perform his duties as an NHL hockey Player, which duties include playing in NHL Games. Signature of Physician -------------------Signature of Player -----------------Signature of Club------------------ cc: Player Club on a lighter side, I think of Chandler from friends saying "ha ha He said du-ty." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 In all seriousness, I believe it's Andrew Peters. Yeah now that you mention him I think your right. I was blinded :ph34r: by looking for one of the the players that disappeared a little bit to support my conspiracy theory... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Very. I heard, I think from Darcy's talk, because of Teppo heart issues they had him sign an additional clause in his contract to 'un'-vague this. Something to the effect that he needed to actually play. For all players they have a "Fitness to Play Determination Form" Which states: FITNESS TO PLAY DETERMINATION FORM NHL/NHLPA Fitness to Play Determination Form (Applicable for Club Physician/Player Physician/ Independent Physician) I, _______________, the [Club's Physician/Player's Physician/ Independent Physician] Name of Physician [circle one] examined ____________ on ____, in connection with the Player's [identify nature of injury, illness, condition or complaint that was the subject of the examination]: and [Check one] [ ] It is my determination that the Player is disabled and unable to perform his duties as an NHL hockey Player, which duties include playing in NHL Games. [ ] It is my determination that the Player is not disabled and is able to perform his duties as an NHL hockey Player, which duties include playing in NHL Games. Signature of Physician -------------------Signature of Player -----------------Signature of Club------------------ cc: Player Club on a lighter side, I think of Chandler from friends saying "ha ha He said du-ty." It is my understanding that they are not allowed to sign anything over and above the spc. I may be wrong, but if there was such a addendum, there wouldn't be any grievance. The above contract doesn't say anything about the quality of your play. In January, Teppo's attorney's thought he was capable of playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 I agree with you 100%. Unfortunatley the hits keep on coming as far as respect with players league wide!but this kind of stuff costs you more than you save in the end. I think compared to a lockout - this is really small stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 It is my understanding that they are not allowed to sign anything over and above the spc. I may be wrong, but if there was such a addendum, there wouldn't be any grievance. The above contract doesn't say anything about the quality of your play. In January, Teppo's attorney's thought he was capable of playing. Clause : NHL game shape, his agent looked it over and everyone signed it. Sabres would have to pay him if he played one game and broke his leg, Teppo wouldn't be complaining then would he? Do we have any links, etc of Teppo recently or Septemberish? would be interesting to see what he said then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 short article on Teppo today. The grievance was filed with the NHL Players’ Association in November, union spokesman Jonathan Weatherdon told The Associated Press on Thursday. News of the grievance surfaced as Numminen rejoined the team this week. Numminen had previously declined to discuss whether he was unhappy with the Sabres decision to place him on their suspended list after it was discovered during a routine physical in September that he required surgery to repair a faulty valve. An 18-year NHL veteran, Numminen re-signed with the Sabres in July, agreeing to a one-year, $2.6 million contract. Sabres general manager Darcy Regier said the dispute will be settled between the NHLPA and the NHL. Regier said the team was within its rights to suspend Numminen, because he was physically unable to play in an NHL game, even though he first began practicing with the team on a non-contact basis in December. Numminens initial hopes to resume playing ended in early January when doctors ruled he'd be out until mid-March to allow his sternum additional time to heal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 Clause : NHL game shape, his agent looked it over and everyone signed it. Sabres would have to pay him if he played one game and broke his leg, Teppo wouldn't be complaining then would he? Do we have any links, etc of Teppo recently or Septemberish? would be interesting to see what he said then. The Sabres knew of his heart condition as well and knew it was a calculated risk and they still chose to sign the contract as well. All of it is really irrelevant, anyway. The crux of the matter is how this is used throughout the league and within the locker room. The problem that people like Tom Golisano and Larry Quinn have is that they want to treat the players like their product and treat them like any other business would treat their product. They also are used to dealing with employees of whom ninety-five percent have no options. The sports business is both very similar and very different than most businesses. Reputation, even perceived reputation is everything. And in sports, the product has certain rights and eventually free will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted March 20, 2008 Report Share Posted March 20, 2008 The Sabres knew of his heart condition as well and knew it was a calculated risk and they still chose to sign the contract as well. All of it is really irrelevant, anyway. The crux of the matter is how this is used throughout the league and within the locker room.The problem that people like Tom Golisano and Larry Quinn have is that they want to treat the players like their product and treat them like any other business would treat their product. They also are used to dealing with employees of whom ninety-five percent have no options. The sports business is both very similar and very different than most businesses. Reputation, even perceived reputation is everything. And in sports, the product has certain rights and eventually free will. Just to make it clear, I'm on the side of the player most of the time. Even at 21 I enjoy "stickin' it to the man". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I really can't take a side on this situation. On one hand, Teppo couldn't pass his required physical because of his heart. If he can't play because of it, and it wasn't an injury suffered during a game or practice (or doing his job), he shouldn't be payed. If I end up in the hospital this weekend for something and can't go back to work for a while, my job won't pay me to sit at home/in the hospital recovering. The difference is, teppo makes alot more money and can afford to miss a years salary, where as for me, a couple weeks missed salary is going to screw me over and put me in a deep hole. On the other hand, Darcy was dumb enough to re-sign a 40+ year old with a known heart condition to a decent size contract before checking into the heart again, but he is doing something that is written into the league rules and almost certainly in the contract (that if he fails a physical he is suspended until he can pass) even though it won't be the popular choice with the fans and other players, but it is a buisness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I really can't take a side on this situation. On one hand, Teppo couldn't pass his required physical because of his heart. If he can't play because of it, and it wasn't an injury suffered during a game or practice (or doing his job), he shouldn't be payed. If I end up in the hospital this weekend for something and can't go back to work for a while, my job won't pay me to sit at home/in the hospital recovering. The difference is, teppo makes alot more money and can afford to miss a years salary, where as for me, a couple weeks missed salary is going to screw me over and put me in a deep hole. On the other hand, Darcy was dumb enough to re-sign a 40+ year old with a known heart condition to a decent size contract before checking into the heart again, but he is doing something that is written into the league rules and almost certainly in the contract (that if he fails a physical he is suspended until he can pass) even though it won't be the popular choice with the fans and other players, but it is a buisness I have almost 1200 hours sick leave on the books... 2080 is one full work year... I am the same age as Teppo... Something like this happens to me, I would get my full pay... And heck, if I ran out of sick leave... There is a donation (people can only donate their annual leave) program and I am pretty sure I can borrow against it from the agency on the stipulation that you will be back... Or if not, would have to pay them back. Just saying... Also at 40 and been working with the same company for over 15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I have a background invloving the law, does that qualify me to speak about contract language? Fighting tickets in court doesn't count... But hey.. fire away.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Fighting tickets in court doesn't count... But hey.. fire away.. I wish that were that extent of it... :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 I never had the "he should have been paid right along sentiment" but when January did role around and we saw a team awash in inconsistency and leadership I did think bringing him in even as a Player coach (like we used Patrick in his twilight years) while he got into game shape would've been worth a little bit of money and I still do now. However he may not want it anymore.. A little speculation because this board is for that anyway right ? Whose our player rep ? Goose ? Do you think the rest of the team knows/knew about the greivance. When exactly was it filed and when was that losing Funk the whole team was in for awhile, could it have been a little of that old union blue flu disease going around ? Pure speculation but I'm sure the attitude of management is not lost on the team or coach when they see this type of stuff and I know certain members of my work team would have less then a go to wall for them attitude if they thought management was not supporting or showing respect to their peers or other's that they respected or didn't go to bat for them when they should have. Thats just how it works.. Maybe thats whys some of the kids look so good they just don't know any better... Hmm interesting line of thought... You suggest a deliberate tanking as a protest. If I was management and found that to be true, I'd immediately begin water boarding :unsure: .. If I'm handing out seven figure numbers to players, I don't care what their politics are, they better be praising mine. :angry: I have a hard time rationalizing this argument. I know Bruce Smith admitted to deliberately tanking the TB game (when TB couldn't beat the high school JV team) all in an effort to get the coach fired. I find this behavior beyond appalling. :angry: It's unconciousable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Hmm interesting line of thought... You suggest a deliberate tanking as a protest. If I was management and found that to be true, I'd immediately begin water boarding :unsure: .. If I'm handing out seven figure numbers to players, I don't care what their politics are, they better be praising mine. :angry: I have a hard time rationalizing this argument. I know Bruce Smith admitted to deliberately tanking the TB game (when TB couldn't beat the high school JV team) all in an effort to get the coach fired. I find this behavior beyond appalling. :angry: It's unconciousable Yeah it's a stretch because that would mean they would have to have concerted team effort or majority buying into that however what I think has become evident to me at least is that there still has not been a "TEAM" attitude or dynamic. Watching some of that Montreal/Boston, StLouis/Ottawa games last night I noticed at many times during the game after, the extra shove's, scrums after hard check, Poking at the puck around the goalie,,,, multiple players from both teams coming in pairing off, standing up for each other. I just think back to all the various times this year other teams have taken liberities and or cheap shots on our players (most recent Laraque hit to Paestch) where no body I mean no body acted like they noticed on the team let alone get in his face, face wash him, scuflle a little with him( a basic tenet of hockey through the years I've been watching)... I think I can recall on one hand the numbe rof times I recall our players standing up for each other... IMHO That ingrediant and attitude is one of the things defitiely missing this year,,, Although I will say these kids come up have added abit more of that lately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted March 21, 2008 Report Share Posted March 21, 2008 Reputation, even perceived reputation is everything. And in sports, the product has certain rights and eventually free will. Interesting idea. I think nothing is really more fleeting than a reputation in sports. From the management and the players end. The sports world moves so fast and length of tenure is so short that I really think everything is what have you done for me lately. I don't really think many players ever said I won't play for the Leafs because of Ballard, or Chicago because of the Wirtz's. Of course I don't know the minds of the players, but I think winning is much more important than managements reputation...and with guaranteed contracts I don't think it matters much if the money and tenure are right. It seems to me that Teppo's is an exceptional case within the CBA and the salary cap. We'll see how the grievance plays out. Just an aside I am curious if 2.6 million isn't more than the entire non-roster game staff is making. Ruff, Patrick, trainers etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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