PerreaultForever

I think your Boy Scout analogy is quite fitting and it really is bad head coaching.

I'd join in and say when during the year did Granato call them out or publicly say they lacked effort? Never. When did he bench big name players who slacked? Never. When did he put them through the ringer in practice and work them into piles of sweat because of their bad effort? Never. It was always "they are learning". As for the Lucic incident, yes, it was a huge thing but I would suggest that if one incident like that can break a team, then they were already broken, it just hadn't been made blatantly public yet. Same thing could happen today by the way. They had nobody to stand up to Lucic then and we have nobody to stand up to Jeannot, or Olivier, Rempe, even DesLauriers etc. Nobody. In recent memory Maroon ran our goalie when he was in Tampa and we did nothing. Heck, we didn't even stand up to Kucherov. It's not the same league, but we are still relatively speaking soft.

They might not be, they could be good actors, but I tend to think season ending locker room clear out interviews are the only (mostly) honest and candid moments we get and so I look at them and look at body language, tone, the way they speak. All of it. It's an assessment, it could be wrong, but during the year they are all in the team mode and say the script. End of the year it's over and they are more candid or so I believe. In the old days more players spoke their minds all year but now in the big agents era everything during the year is garbage. End of the year, sometimes, the guard comes down.

idk but I would have assumed he could. Wasn't it the same with Shane Wright in Seattle and they let him go down?

All that stuff he said about Pegula and how engaged he was and wanted to win etc. etc. which would be all BS if Pegula was planning to sell. Thought that was obvious.

Yes, this, definitely, without question. If they get rid of Skinner in any way, even a buy out, I will regain my love for hockey 🙂 I think the rest of this, for me, has to wait until I see who that coach is.

So Hamilton is basically saying Cozens lost his love for hockey in Buffalo? idk, I didn't like his exit interview clip. He seemed flat and detached and it lacked himself taking any personal responsibility. Unlike Tuch, he never says "I" need to be better. After seeing it I thought I was wrong about Cozens and he is definitely not captain material.

If any of this is true it would mean that Adams was spewing total lies in his press conference and thus I'd suggest everything else he said might have been lies as well. Just saying. Anyway, I'd be more than happy if he did sell. He'd make a tidy profit and we'd have to look for someone else to blame. Everybody happy.

Wouldn't hurt him. There's quite a few teams that have players up and down and up and down and it's all part of the development process. These things do not have to be linear.

Damn. Sutter. I never even thought about him. That would be a huge departure so I don't see it happening. Not even a remote possibility BUT if it did I'd be willing to give it a chance to see what happens. It would definitely mean a lot of changes. Not sure it would work, but it won't be boring.

I love everything Cliffy says here and he's absolutely right. They need structure and accountability and a hard nosed driving leader/coach but that constant smirk makes me think he knows this is all BS - until it isn't.

I agree. That shopping list/failure list is exactly what I said we needed going in to free agency. I was content with Clifton for the D add but the rest was definitely lacking and that's what I said when the season started too. It was the same thing the year before as well. No progress and I agree it's still the same holes except now we really need a center or two with the Mitts trade. As for the forecheck, absolutely. The way we play they even just shield the puck with their bodies and have time to look around and then make the play. It's a physically demanding way of playing but it is incredibly effective in today's NHL and we need a coach who will make them play that way and if they don't they need to be replaced.

There is some truth in the perspective you're taking and I think there are players on this team that lack drive and that kind of self motivating character. I still hold to their being bad influences as well (eg. Skinner). There's also that whole pampered country club thing and without leaders showing them the right way some of these kids do what young rich kids do and they enjoy themselves and put minimum work in. So the point would be this speaks to who and how you draft (since we are relying on draft picks) and that whole reliance on analytics over character. Now some of them are fine. You take a kid like Benson and he clearly has a work ethic and a desire and idk how he was brought up or coached but he's an example of what you do want. You get enough guys like that and maybe the coach motivating them isn't as needed, but as things stand now he most definitely is needed to turn this thing around. The standard simply has to be raised. They have to start hating to lose. I don't think these guys know how to do that on their own.

I think they will as well, because they always get it wrong in this era. Who the coach is factors in huge for me as I've been saying. If it's Gallant or Ruff I think it definitely has to be Tuch as he already knows both of them in a way and he can bridge any gaps with others that might occur as the team adjusts to the new higher standards.

That might be true but I don't think you need an angry captain. Your coach can give you the anger and then leave the room. That's the moment your captain steps up and in a gentler direct way says "he's right guys" and then he leads by example. You see Tuch's reaction to the suggestion of Ruff? I got the sense he'd do anything for him if that came to be. He'd understand. He'd remember what he grew up with and he'd do everything he could to bring it back. The relationship, but also the respect, would already be there. Dahlin would be more likely to think "why's this old guy yelling at me?"

Keep him, don't keep him. not a big issue to me either way. I would however like him to be on the 4th line not the 3rd. He's a marginal NHL player imo. If Adams can upgrade him he should.

Dumping the puck in doesn't work in today's game because of the speed of the D men and their general ability to move it out quickly. However, dumping the puck in combined with a fast and aggressive forecheck can work, and you can reap huge dividends with it. The usual term now is "dump and chase" and it's the chase part that has to be there and you have to be fast, physical, finish your checks and win puck battles relentlessly. With the right coach, we could be that team.

I think this team has most of the talent it needs to become successful but it does need a system overhaul and a change in how they play. Looking at what we have, the best plan imo is to become an aggressive forecheck team. The closest example as a model would in fact be Carolina. Ideally they add toughness and can play more like Florida but we have the size and speed to make this happen with a good coach. Ruff could do it. Gallant could do it. Berube might be able to do it. The craziest plan would be Quenneville is allowed to come back and he is named coach and then we sign Kane and name him captain. There's a crazy dream.

One of the differences I noticed is Tuch took it on himself. He said "I" have to be better and lead by example. That was important to me to hear.

I actually agree. I think Adams has failed miserably so far but nothing I can about it so I have to hope that this time he gets it right. Coaches are always fall guy number one and what we've seen, as I've said in other posts, is the frequent life cycle taking place. First you change players, then you change coaches, then you get changed.

Can't disagree with that. Clifton wasn't enough. Adams has put too much emphasis on developing the draft picks and waiting. I am somewhat hopeful that maybe this plan was always the plan in the back of his mind. The Granato extension was a thank you for your service reward for running a rookie development camp but Adams always had it in his mind that Granato would not be the coach to take it to the next level when he thought the kids were ripe and ready.

The biggest thing here for me is Berube has a much different style 'he'd want major roster changes to fit that style. From player to coach everything about him is hard nosed D first and physical play. This is just so not what we are or have. Hence I see this one as unlikely. Brind'Amour is the dream but he would fit. We can be Carolina under him. Ruff would fit for a variety of reasons and the history (which is good for ticket sales and marketing) Gallant idk. Harder fit but definitely a good coach. Some changes would be needed there.

Oh I see, so your argument is we were not really as good as our record last year and thus we are basically the same. I can accept that logic, but ultimately it's still on the coach to get the maximum out of his roster and to make them better and he didn't do that. Inconsistency and sometimes lack of effort or intensity were hallmarks of this team. It's clear listening to the exit interviews that :accountability" would be a new thing going forward with a new coach and was clearly not part of this year's team.

Also, if I wasn't clear on the coach comments he'd be the perfect conduit between players and coach if it is Gallant or Ruff.

How did we not underachieve? We were worse than the year before when all the "experts" were saying this is was supposed to be the year we challenge and possibly make the playoffs. Do you believe this year's roster was worse than the year before? We added Benson and we got decent goaltending after UPL stepped up. How is the lack of improvement not on the coach?