Trettioåtta

And i watch films to watch actors act, doesn't mean i don't know and appreciate that funding and sponsorship is a requirement for this to happen

Disappointing. If the player lose the season, surely they know the owners will just screw them 9 ways from Sunday? Can't the members of the PA demand that they vote on the NHL proposal? I think if talks break down now, that is it for the season - they already said anything more than a 50 game schedule would be complex. So if talks break down, what with time needed to sort logistics out and Xmas, that will mean it is a 41 game (probably) season... I hope/genuinely suspect that the NHL will have taken a huge blow over all this, I think players will return to mostly empty stadiums and the sponsors won't come back that quickly. If I was pouring money into the NHL as a sponsor i would want at least a decade long CBA, if not 15 years, before i even consider investing. In an odd way, i think it would b better for the NHL to cancel the season and restart next October, I think that a combination of a) How pissed and indifferent fans are at the moment and b) The fact most have already found a replacement for hockey and c) Christmas is expensive, will mean that they would fill more seats and repair damage over the long run if they went without this year

That was amazingly helpful - thanks! Once an appeal has been submitted to a circuit, can the other party change the circuit? Like if the NHL preemptively files in the 2nd circuit to say that if the PA decertify then it is a sham move, does the PA have to register to decertify in the 2nd or could it submit its case to 9?

Could someone quickly explain what these circuit things are? I read about the NHL wanting 2 or 8 and the players wanting 9, but what does it mean?

Hard to tell - mediators won't talk to the press/will keep a low profile and they will tell the sides to do the same. Will become quiet for a while porbably

My girlfriend and I started watching it a couple of weeks ago. We are 4 episodes into season 2, so still got a way to go; but we are loving it. Can't believe i only just found it

How does that ###### the owners? Most owners lose money, so the longer the league is out, the more the owners save

This relies on the courts ruling in favour of the players - what happens if the courts rule in favour of the owners? Can the owners basically make a new CBA and tell the players that they can individually agree to it and play or they can F off? If so, this is a risky move. Although if it does take 1-2 years to sort out decertification, then it also means the NHL is very very screwed, and by proxy, the players. EDIT: http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/decertification-111104/nba-decertification-threat-strong-message This article nicely explains it all

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=410073#YourCallTop Hopefully this is a snowball starting to roll

I guess how they did it for Sid, with the bottom 5 teams getting 3 balls, then then next 5 getting 2 balls - or whatever the system was. In a way it is fitting that there was a lockout before both "The next ones" (Sid in 05 and Nathan in 13)

Sh!t a player actually publicly turned against Fehr! Maybe this and the news about the players pushing for a new proposal means Fehr is losing his henchmen

This is a big improvement - finally a proper offer. My only issue is that their proposal only offers cap hit penalties for contracts - no limit or stop to back loading. I don't like this as I think that back loaded contracts and long contracts were the only things ruining the game. But I'm not sure how much further they can be pushed. EDIT: I also don't like the length of this CBA, I think for the game's sake it needs to be at least 10 years. 5 years will mean people won't bother coming back to the game as they think there will be another lockout soon. Either way, I think that there will be a serious drop in HRR for the next couple of years

Maybe...although the owners like Bettman, and unlike the players, the owners actually understand business negotiations and so are probably more understanding of the process - not to mention some already think that Bettman has offered too much, so the only reason to get rid of him would be for someone who was more willing to do a deal with Fehr

Guy clearly has anger management issues, maybe this was why Darcy was very happy with the Coho for Kass trade

Ah man, Lori was fit, why did it have to be her? I hope that Darrel and Merle go at it. They have changed too much over the last 9 months, D is now good and M is still bad. The other storyline isnt too bad either. I forgot all about the black dude, I presumed he would reappear by now if he was anything more than a one episode character, but maybe

It might help if the NHLPA made even the remotest change from their initial proposal. The NHL is doing all the leg-work and the PA just refuse anything which wasn't basically the offer they made in August. They have already lost more money than they would have with a roll back, so really the PA have lost this battle already, it is just a question of how much the game is effected. The players have a duty to play at a level their contract expects of them. They do not do this, so i can imagine why the owners are less than enthusiastic about paying them the full amount. But as TrueBlue said, no good guys here - but at least it seems like the NHL actually wants a season.

Urgh i hate twitter - so hard to read conversations. But from what i got it is highly amusing

Negotiations have basically not even begun, 2 months is probably not long enough to do it, so why pay the money?

"Dear players, lets analyse. You have just given up 26% of your annual income for the year (excluding endorsement deals for the privileged few). The Bell-Rogers consortium that owns Maple Sports and Entertainment, which owns the Leafs just gave up 26% of the $82M profit from the Leafs. Divided by their combined annual profit (not revenue profit) of roughly $5B.... yields 0.004264 or 0.4% of their annual profit. Wow, you players sure have a strangle hold on these owners. /end sarcasm/" From TSN Commenter In my mind, this starts and stops with the players for 4 reasons: 1) They refused to negotiate up until 3 months before the CBA expired - they should have started a year and 3 months before, when the NHL wanted 2) They said they would play knowing that the NHL would have to lock them out to stop them striking - it was in bad faith and a blatant PR move 3) They did not subit an offer until 2 months before the CBA ended 4) They have yet to submit an offer that deviates from their initial proposal in the details. All their proposals have nothing to do with wanting contracts honoured but with wanting a large slice of pie I also don't like how the players are whining to the media and going abroad taking a 4th liner in Europe's job - who needs the money more? I also think that the NHL players are not intelligent or experienced enough to be in this field of work to even comment, they are not business men and they are not really college educated (most of them), so i feel they are just listening to what Fehr says instead of actually looking at the CBA offers (from both sides) themselves That said, i also find it disgraceful that the Wild would offer contracts with the full intention of then trying to get them knocked down under the new CBA

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408161 I think he is the first player to talk of the fans and the game being impacted by this lock-out. Players seem to be more concerned with the honoring of contracts compared to HRR

The guy said he earns $112,000 a year, JD would earn far more than that I think, although the idea of turning columbus around was mentioned several times. Did JD play hockey in college but no further? And go through sales to his position? Seemed to me more like this guy was a youngish exec, he said at the last lock-out he was no-where near his current rank

Well that explains why the NHL took 10 minutes to reject the NHLPA offer - we will eventually agree to 50/50 if we decide what counts towards our 50 is not a healthy negotiation strategy. I think the worst part, for me, is if we do get a shortened season, i don't really want the Sabres to win the cup as it will always be tainted and feel less of an achievement

I think it is pretty funny. Made me laugh. He probably gets asked about the no-goal call by every other hockey fan he meets. People love controversies. He is just having a little fun with it. He probably knows that the goal would have normally not counted, but as a player you take what the refs give you and argue when you think it goes against you in the hope that in the future the refs side with you a little more.

Ridiculous. The players are so thick it is unbelievable, if only the NHL had gotten tough on head shots a few years ago :( The players lose the PR battle, the fans (probably) lose the season, the NHL (probably) loses Florida, Phoenix, Dallas, Columbus, Islanders

My allegiance is now on the owners side, the PA and the players are coming across as greedy wankers. And it doesn't help when Backes says that this offer is the equivalent of someone who earns £50k taking a 5K pay cut instead of a 10K pay cut. The players deserve no sympathy if they don't accept a very slightly altered version of this offer. That or i hope the season starts with the winter classic and the stadium is only half full and a chant of "###### you players" starts and lasts the whole game. I would also accept that. The PA refused to negotiate until 3 months before the CBA ran out, they submitted a counter-proposal 1.5 months before the CBA ran out and they have not submitted another one since.