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Which is why my trade suggestion was for Eriksson Ek AND Foligno together. That changes the conversation from their perspective, and we could still get value (and leadership) from Foligno even though there is declining value in terms of his contract. People talking about what if Kulich outplays Kane etc. is a non issue and I fail to see the problem. If it were to happen, GREAT. Now we can trade somebody for another player we need. Trade 2 guys for 1 even. Sit Skinner in the press box. More options. Ruff has greater freedom to sit guys who don't perform. There is absolutely ZERO problem with having more good hockey players than you need. ZERO. You guys have just forgotten what it's like to be a real hockey team with actual depth.

Wifey noticed it when it happened and got a pretty good kick out of it.

Based on his actual value I'd say he owes them 1.5 million from last year so if he wants to sign a negative dollar contract happy to have him back. Otherwise let him go to Philly (they just signed some young Latvian, they can do vodka shots together on road trips).

It is EXTREMELY unlikely that, should say Kane and Cirelli (or other vets of similar stature) get brought in that Kulich and Savoie will outperform them out of the gate. NOBODY is disputing that. Where the divergence of opinion comes in is that some of us believe that SHOULD it happen, it would be a very good thing; but others see that outcome as a "fail.'

Thank you for admitting that you are one of those fans that accepts a terrible on ice product.

Don't confuse the fact that he plays on the PK with him actually being good. He is a terrible hockey player who's been single digit assists for the last 4 year.

Even Oiler fans want it to be over.

You can say that with certain fans as well.

Nygard btw was in the top 4 for well rounded, most physical, highest motor.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1DPm5K8I7Tb3_AMrsi44SkyhDmoPkoZcAPxO18fldyTI/htmlview

He is a symbol of what is wrong with this organization and what has been wrong with this team for a decade. He has been specifically mentioned by management as part of the locker room leadership group. Adams has re-signed this guy twice already with diminishingly results. The truth is I’m open to moving any player on the Sabres in the right deal. Benson, JJP, Dahlin and Levi would be hard hardest to pry loose, but nobody is beyond being traded. I look at the Panthers and see where they are and look at the aggressive moves it took to get there and realize there are no scared cows. That said I’m also a realist. KA isn’t likely to move one of his guys. But he does have to opportunity to make major changes by simply letting at the FAs walk, except UPL. That opens 5-6 roster spots that can be upgraded including potentially a top 4 D and a 2/3C. We have a thread on grit, and with the rest of those roster spots he needs to find new people, who didn’t marinate in our losing culture for a decade, to bring grit and work ethic to a team sorely lacking it.

Probably not. What is their commitment to doing that, beside making a few bucks and padding some stats? We tried Stahl, Hall, Johnson, etc. We need our coaches and core players to own it and stop the losing culture. Playoff moves - bring in vets with tread their tires that bring in what is missing. 1. Make a big multi player trade for a Center (1C/2C) that can take a big load off of Tage and Cozens. On the block, any of 11OA, Joker, Skinner, Krebs, and certain prospects. 2. Add veteran toughness and veteran skill at wing, sign UFA's Joshua and Teravainen. 3. Get a steady solid vet RHD for 2nd pair. 4. If Girgs leaves sign a guy like Carrier. Same game, and Carrier will drop them. 5. Sign a #2G and do not rush Levi.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5554222/2024/06/15/2024-nhl-draft-class-superlatives?source=user-shared-article 2024 class superlatives, Helenius and Nygard on a few of these. Both might be there at 11.

pronman is high in catton?!?

If that were to happen than KA did real good and deserves lots of praise for his patience and development plan.

None of the above, ok maybe Dahlin and Clifton. As a forward group, they don’t crash the net, they don’t forecheck well or backcheck well. It’s O zone time wasn’t very long and why we are amongst the worst teams in allowing HDCA for the last few years. The funny thing Adams traded away the one center he had willing to do those things. Cozens should be gritty player and isn’t and Tage is a huge physical presence who plays a finesse game. Greenway is a big guy who can play a gritty game and did in Minn. He has hit a few guys in Buffalo but hasn’t really resulted in significant turnovers. Benson has the want to, but gets knocked off the puck to easily. Quinn and JJP are finesse forwards at this point and don’t have much physicality in their games (yet?) Skinner does go to the net and is annoying, but doesn’t hit anyone or block shots or backcheck. Tuch is willing to block shot and hit occasionally, and has a solid all around game built on speed and passing. Krebs is willing to take the body but does nothing else well. Truthfully until the entire forward group as a whole commits to playing a tougher brand of hockey the Sabres will be stuck in 2nd gear. Maybe Ruff can instill that commitment. Maybe. There is more grit on defense. Dahlin and Clifton lead the way there, but that about it. Mule’s job is to be gritty but he can’t stay healthy so what good is it? Joki, Johnson, Bryson don’t add physicality. Power for a kid his size does a great job of blocking shots but almost never takes the body. This is a team as soft Anderson’s custard. They were built for speed, they lack proper depth and they lack a winning culture. Good luck Lindy. As we see in the playoffs, teams that are hard to play against win. To achieve that goal with the players we have is impossible without substantial change. We need 4 new forwards including 2 centers and they must have a good 2 way game. We also need a top 4 who is committed to playing in zone defense.

I managed to find two at forward and one D man.

That would explain the lack of oomph to his goal calls

What if Benson comes to training camp and can skate like McDavid and grew 2"? I understand your point. I'm trying to be realistic.

Stamkos is not coming here under any circumstances. He has no desire to come to Buffalo. Kane is another matter. If offered a better contract than others bidding for his services, I'm sure he would be interested to come back home. I think adding Kane to this roster would be a terrific move that not only could jolt this lineup but also the fanbase.

I don't understand your fixation on this particular player. Your point that he was part of a failed 3rd rebuild doesn't resonate with me. So were a lot of players who will be on this season's roster! Are you arguing that Dahlin should be sent packing because he has been part of this failed reconstruction? Of course you are not. Girgs is a fourth line player, nothing more. He's an earnest player who consistently plays hard. And he is a good PK player. If he remains with the Sabres it will be as a fourth line player who plays that role well. So why are you so zealous about dispatching him for a player who most likely plays a similar game and isn't better? I'm not arguing to keep him or not. I don't believe that it is a consequential decision. But what I'm not going to do is point the finger at an honest player (as you are doing) who has nothing to do with the underperformance of this team. It's indisputable that this roster needs some reshaping. However you want to look at it, he's not the problem, and never has been.

The selling the house is an indication that he wants to go. I don’t know if he can revive his career here with the return of Ruff and I don’t care. He needs to go. The Sabres brass keep talking about a “new” standard in Buffalo. I assume this means winning is the most important thing, the only thing. The means the old standard was “don’t worry be happy” and winning doesn’t really matter. No wonder they didn’t win. Girgensons was part of the internal leadership group for this 3rd failing rebuild and he just isn’t a good NHL hockey player. He is also overpaid for his production and line assignment. It’s time for him to go. He knows it and hopefully Adams knows it as well.

I made it back to my real computer where I track this sort of silliness. A better Ruffian example of line construction is at the end of the 2011-12 season (yes, I know it's not a playoff team, it's a heroic run to 9th lineup with hot-baby-Foligno). PP time is what got the offensive players the extra minutes -- Tropp was on Vanek's line but not getting PP time. Girgensons could move around a Ruff team. (I'm still not advocating re-signing Z, but with the new old coach I can easily see a spot for him.) Leino - Roy - Pominville Vanek - Hodgson - Tropp Foligno - Ennis - Stafford Gerbe - McCormick - Kaleta (scr: Boyes)

Lots of good discussion here. Lots of the same worries and one common concern is, "vets will be better players for other teams than for Buffalo". It certainly has happened quite a bit in the past 15 years or so, and it will continue until we get better coaches, a better line up filled with NHL players and legitimate NHL spare pieces, and a winning culture. Avoid players coming here to make the most money they can. That should be a red flag from the past. We need to make this team more experienced, grittier, and mentally tougher this off season. Lindy needs the freedom to bench a struggling or lazy player and plug in someone that actually belongs in the league. I think playing the numbers game this off season gives a good chance to turn this around. Bring in a few low-mid priced players (not NHL minimum JAGS) that have potential to reach their best level ever in Buffalo (like a Briere), and bring in a few that are reliable and consistent vets (like a Teppo). Don't break the bank on one Lindholm for $9M this off season because that could turn into a Erhard or a Taylor Hall if things go awry. If you are going to spend $9M on a outside player then go make a big trade and get Brady Tkachuk or someone of that ilk. I still remember when the opposite was true, when we picked up players and they played their best hockey for Buffalo. That was of course many decades ago when management hired the best GMs they could get, and when players felt they were joining a team with a real chance to win. To turn the tide this season, sign players for lower contracts/term and hit a few of them hit.