Ryan Miller potential as a pro...

[LabattBlue]

Skies the limit? He finished the year around 10th in both GAA and Save Percentage. He was solid and sometimes outstanding in the playoffs. At the same time, he seemed to have a problem with giving up goals high(after going down) and also had sporadic problems with the 5 hole.

 

I'm not sure why(just a hunch), but I can see him being a very steady #1 during his career, ranking between 7th and 10th(not that this is terrible) in the categories mentioned above, but never reaching the elite status of all-star goalie that some fans think is the road he is heading down.

 

I hope I'm wrong. ;)

[Done]

Skies the limit? He finished the year around 10th in both GAA and Save Percentage. He was solid and sometimes outstanding in the playoffs. At the same time, he seemed to have a problem with giving up goals high(after going down) and also had sporadic problems with the 5 hole.

 

I'm not sure why(just a hunch), but I can see him being a very steady #1 during his career, ranking between 7th and 10th(not that this is terrible) in the categories mentioned above, but never reaching the elite status of all-star goalie that some fans think is the road he is heading down.

 

I hope I'm wrong. ;)

 

 

A friend described him as, Darren Puppa +

[hopeleslyobvious]

I see a lot more potential out of Miller. He had a bad slump this year in March, but I think when he was on, he was among the best in the league. He has his weaknesses, but every goalie does.

 

Next year I expect an improvement in stats. The biggest reason is the next time he has a slump, I see him getting over it in a few games, and not in a month. Just something I expect to come with experience.

 

As he went further into the playoffs, there seemed to be a point in time that you really needed a deflection to get one past him. Not to say he didn't have goals that he would like back (because he did), but I thought all in all he put together a pretty good rookie season, and a pretty good playoff run.

[Taro T]

Skies the limit? He finished the year around 10th in both GAA and Save Percentage. He was solid and sometimes outstanding in the playoffs. At the same time, he seemed to have a problem with giving up goals high(after going down) and also had sporadic problems with the 5 hole.

 

I'm not sure why(just a hunch), but I can see him being a very steady #1 during his career, ranking between 7th and 10th(not that this is terrible) in the categories mentioned above, but never reaching the elite status of all-star goalie that some fans think is the road he is heading down.

 

I hope I'm wrong. ;)

I really think he is still adjusting his game to be more positional than attacking like he was when he was 1st brought into the system. How well he completes the adjustments will determine whether he's a good goalie or a great one.

 

He moves side to side as well as anyone I've seen. He's had trouble controlling rebounds taken from the slot / his left side and blocked with his right leg, but that seemed to get better as the season wore on. I think most of the 5 hole issues he had were due to adjustments being made to control the rebounds better.

 

How well he controls the stuff up high will be a function of how well he completes his adjustments, IMHO.

 

One encouraging sign, again IMHO, during the regular season there were a couple of stretches where he seemed to let one bad game get to him. Once the playoffs hit, he didn't let the SH goal he gave up in Game 3 of the Philly series submarine the rest of that game (although the same can't be said of the rest of the team) and Game 4 didn't repeat itself in Game 5.

[hopeleslyobvious]

One encouraging sign, again IMHO, during the regular season there were a couple of stretches where he seemed to let one bad game get to him. Once the playoffs hit, he didn't let the SH goal he gave up in Game 3 of the Philly series submarine the rest of that game (although the same can't be said of the rest of the team) and Game 4 didn't repeat itself in Game 5.

 

Good point. He seemed to learn a lot before the playoffs started. Giving up the bad goal in Philly actually seemed to give him the spark he had coming back from his injury.

[PASabreFan]

You probably play goal more with your mind than your right leg. For a bit of different perspective, I'd offer these comments on his personality. He works with a sports psychologist, which can be seen as good or bad. He's trying to deal with the emotional stresses of the position, which is good. But he needs a sports psychologist, which is bad, or might be bad! When I think of Ryan, I think of tears. He broke down in tears after his first NHL start, in Buffalo against Wings IMMSMC (like that one, Dave?). And he broke down in tears after his last start, against Carolina in Game 7. I gained a lot of respect for him when he talked about how Rick Jeanneret came into the lockerroom after the game and expressed to the players that this was the finest Sabre team he had ever seen, or something to that effect. Ryan knew how long Jeanneret had been doing the games, which impressed me. That's all a long-winded way of saying Ryan cares... a lot. That should be a big positive for a professional athlete, but it could be a problem at times. Caring too much. If he keeps his emotions in check, deals with adversity the way he did in the playoffs and keeps getting better on the technical side, I see no reason he can't be a top-notch goaltender for a long time.

[Bmwolf21]

You probably play goal more with your mind than your right leg. For a bit of different perspective, I'd offer these comments on his personality. He works with a sports psychologist, which can be seen as good or bad. He's trying to deal with the emotional stresses of the position, which is good. But he needs a sports psychologist, which is bad, or might be bad! When I think of Ryan, I think of tears. He broke down in tears after his first NHL start, in Buffalo against Wings IMMSMC (like that one, Dave?). And he broke down in tears after his last start, against Carolina in Game 7. I gained a lot of respect for him when he talked about how Rick Jeanneret came into the lockerroom after the game and expressed to the players that this was the finest Sabre team he had ever seen, or something to that effect. Ryan knew how long Jeanneret had been doing the games, which impressed me. That's all a long-winded way of saying Ryan cares... a lot. That should be a big positive for a professional athlete, but it could be a problem at times. Caring too much. If he keeps his emotions in check, deals with adversity the way he did in the playoffs and keeps getting better on the technical side, I see no reason he can't be a top-notch goaltender for a long time.

I agree that he needs to keep his emotions in check, and learn to not get too high after a great save/game, and not get too low after a bad stretch/soft goal.

 

I have absolutely no problems whatsoever with him enlisting the aid of a sports psychologist. The amount of pressure pro athletes are under can cause even the most strong-willed to buckle under the weight of expectations; goalies, quarterbacks, and pitchers are get the lion's share of accolades when they win and criticism when they falter. Many pro teams employ their own team sports psychologists so the players can stay sharp mentally; after all, with the playoffs and training camp, we can be talking about a 100+game season spread out over 10 months. If seeing a sports psychologist gives him an edge, helps him keep or improve his focus, and keeps us in the hunt for Lord Stanley, hell I'll drive him to his appointments.

[hopeleslyobvious]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it pretty normal for players to see sports psychologists?

 

I'd take Miller crying after a big loss over Marty smiling after one any day.

[nfreeman]

This thread raises an issue that I've been wrestling with: how much is wise to give Miller at this point? Do we really want to give him a 3 or 4 year deal averaging $2.5 million or more? He's had ONE good year. There are a lot of one-year wonder goalies who return to very ordinary status thereafter. Giguere, for example, is just a $4 million albatross around Anaheim's neck.

 

Now, please understand, I really like Miller. For most of the year last year, other than about 4-5 weeks post-Olympics, I thought he was top 5 in the league. But it's only been one year and we hold exclusive rights to him for 2 more years. Would it be a bad idea to make him prove himself for one more year before we give him a big, long-term deal?

[Taro T]

This thread raises an issue that I've been wrestling with: how much is wise to give Miller at this point? Do we really want to give him a 3 or 4 year deal averaging $2.5 million or more? He's had ONE good year. There are a lot of one-year wonder goalies who return to very ordinary status thereafter. Giguere, for example, is just a $4 million albatross around Anaheim's neck.

 

Now, please understand, I really like Miller. For most of the year last year, other than about 4-5 weeks post-Olympics, I thought he was top 5 in the league. But it's only been one year and we hold exclusive rights to him for 2 more years. Would it be a bad idea to make him prove himself for one more year before we give him a big, long-term deal?

I would give him a 3 year deal averaging $2.5MM. I would absolutely not give him a 2 year deal for that and would be reluctant to give him that kind of green for a 1 year deal as well.

 

If he has another season like the last one, the Sabres will be looking at ~$4MM/year to sign him. I think another year like last year is a lot more likely than him turning into a bust.

 

Even if he does revert some and the Sabres decide they want to go in a different direction, a 2 year deal for ~$3MM / yr (which is what he'd probably have left) is something that I think other teams would be willing to make a legitimate offer for.

 

If Ryan wants more than $2.5MM/year now, then the Sabres will probably be forced to sign him to a 1 year deal for ~$2.0MM and hope they can find a way to give him a 3 year deal averaging $4MM/year in July (or January). (Because if they are in a position in July to get him to sign a 3 year deal for $2.5MM/yr or less, then he really must have stunk this next season up.)

[deluca67]

This thread raises an issue that I've been wrestling with: how much is wise to give Miller at this point? Do we really want to give him a 3 or 4 year deal averaging $2.5 million or more? He's had ONE good year. There are a lot of one-year wonder goalies who return to very ordinary status thereafter. Giguere, for example, is just a $4 million albatross around Anaheim's neck.

 

Now, please understand, I really like Miller. For most of the year last year, other than about 4-5 weeks post-Olympics, I thought he was top 5 in the league. But it's only been one year and we hold exclusive rights to him for 2 more years. Would it be a bad idea to make him prove himself for one more year before we give him a big, long-term deal?

 

Hmmm :rolleyes: Where have I heard that before? :D

[BetweenThePipes00]

There's no doubt that when a kid has the physical talents of Miller, the key for him is the mental game, and I think he has come a long way since the meltdown after the game against Detroit. The tears after the Carolina game were completely different. The first time I think he was basically feeling sorry for himself. The second time was a release ... that was an emotional series and an emotional night and I think they may have come even if he had won that game, given the roller coaster of that day with McKee not being able to play.

I also love the way he has re-made his game since he first came up. He used to be so aggressive he would flop himself right out of position (something Mika does too, incidently) but that year in Rochester worked wonders because he has eliminated it almost entirely. The next thing I'd like to see him eliminate is the goals that go through him. Even getting beat high in the butterfly is something that happens to every butterfly goalie at times when you get lazy and go down too soon. But it's the ones that go under his arm or 5-hole that would make a world of difference. That said, he didn't let these goals bother him the way a lot of young goalies do, so that is a plus.

I'm totally nit-picking here. He's never going to put up Hasek-like numbers because the Sabres give up more chances than they did then, the pedal is to the metal more. But I think he is good enough to win it all with. In fact, who would you rather have in the East? Brodeur, obviously. Cam Ward, because he won it? I guess so ... still not sure I'd do that deal. Who else? Luongo is out West now ... as is Hasek, what is left of him. Belfour is in Florida but ... not what he was. DiPietro? Miller has passed him. Gerber? Couldn't hold the job in Carolina. Lundqvist in NY? Kinda faded down the stretch ... I'd take Miller.

It's easy to pick apart his game when we watch him every night and put him under the microscope like I just did, but looking around the East I'm glad we have the guy we do.

[hopeleslyobvious]

There's no doubt that when a kid has the physical talents of Miller, the key for him is the mental game, and I think he has come a long way since the meltdown after the game against Detroit. The tears after the Carolina game were completely different. The first time I think he was basically feeling sorry for himself. The second time was a release ... that was an emotional series and an emotional night and I think they may have come even if he had won that game, given the roller coaster of that day with McKee not being able to play.

I also love the way he has re-made his game since he first came up. He used to be so aggressive he would flop himself right out of position (something Mika does too, incidently) but that year in Rochester worked wonders because he has eliminated it almost entirely. The next thing I'd like to see him eliminate is the goals that go through him. Even getting beat high in the butterfly is something that happens to every butterfly goalie at times when you get lazy and go down too soon. But it's the ones that go under his arm or 5-hole that would make a world of difference. That said, he didn't let these goals bother him the way a lot of young goalies do, so that is a plus.

I'm totally nit-picking here. He's never going to put up Hasek-like numbers because the Sabres give up more chances than they did then, the pedal is to the metal more. But I think he is good enough to win it all with. In fact, who would you rather have in the East? Brodeur, obviously. Cam Ward, because he won it? I guess so ... still not sure I'd do that deal. Who else? Luongo is out West now ... as is Hasek, what is left of him. Belfour is in Florida but ... not what he was. DiPietro? Miller has passed him. Gerber? Couldn't hold the job in Carolina. Lundqvist in NY? Kinda faded down the stretch ... I'd take Miller.

It's easy to pick apart his game when we watch him every night and put him under the microscope like I just did, but looking around the East I'm glad we have the guy we do.

 

 

I disagree about Brodeur. He started to show signs of weakness last year. I think a lot of his accomplishments can be attributed to the Scotts. Take them away, and he is still good, but not unbeatable.

 

I disagree about Lundqvist. He did fade at the end of last year, but he had a hip flexor injury. I think it significantly affected his lateral movement, so he was not anywhere near 100% in the playoffs.

[BetweenThePipes00]

I disagree about Brodeur. He started to show signs of weakness last year. I think a lot of his accomplishments can be attributed to the Scotts. Take them away, and he is still good, but not unbeatable.

I disagree about Lundqvist. He did fade at the end of last year, but he had a hip flexor injury. I think it significantly affected his lateral movement, so he was not anywhere near 100% in the playoffs.

 

Fair points. I would not trade Miller for Brodeur, obviously, I was just giving him his due respect as a guy you CAN win it with given that he has won it more than once.

 

Lundqvist did have a nice year, and I'm sure the injury was a factor. But now Miller has valuable playoff experience he does not so ... slight edge I think. Either way, it is a short list in the East.

[Bmwolf21]

I'm totally nit-picking here. He's never going to put up Hasek-like numbers because the Sabres give up more chances than they did then, the pedal is to the metal more. But I think he is good enough to win it all with. In fact, who would you rather have in the East? Brodeur, obviously. Cam Ward, because he won it? I guess so ... still not sure I'd do that deal. Who else? Luongo is out West now ... as is Hasek, what is left of him. Belfour is in Florida but ... not what he was. DiPietro? Miller has passed him. Gerber? Couldn't hold the job in Carolina. Lundqvist in NY? Kinda faded down the stretch ... I'd take Miller.

It's easy to pick apart his game when we watch him every night and put him under the microscope like I just did, but looking around the East I'm glad we have the guy we do.

I think - to paraphrase Mike Lowery from Bad Boys 2 - in fairness to ALL current and future Sabres' goaltenders, that we need to put Dom's Buffalo play in a special locked box, and throw that be-otch into Lake Erie, so that Sabre fans can NEVER use the Dominator as a reference point again. Dom's shadow continues to loom over the creases at MMA, because what he did was special. He turned a bunch of average talent nobodies into a great team by literally standing on his head, night in and night out. I know, the team in front of him wasn't that bad, blah blah blah - but they wouldn't have gone anywhere with 90% of the other goalies in the league at the time. He was great, many times in spite of his teammates, and our fans got spoiled. What some fans (not most on this board) need to do is compare Ryan's body of work against his own potential and accomplishments, and against his peers. I think we'll all be enjoying watching Ryan lock down the home crease for years to come.

 

To your second point - I'd have to agree, there aren't many big-name, top flight goalies in the East, and I wouldn't trade Ryan for any of them - including Cam Ward. We've all seen goalies get hot in the playoffs and then stink it up the next year (Paging JS Giguere or John Hedberg) so until Ward does it for 60+ games and then carries his team in the playoffs, then I'll be impressed. Not taking anything away from his playoff run, but playing well for 23 games is a heck of a lot different from 75+.

I also wonder which is the real Cam Ward - the 3.68 GAA, .882 SV% goalie from the regular season, or the 2.14, .920 guy from the Cup run...

[hopeleslyobvious]

Fair points. I would not trade Miller for Brodeur, obviously, I was just giving him his due respect as a guy you CAN win it with given that he has won it more than once.

 

Lundqvist did have a nice year, and I'm sure the injury was a factor. But now Miller has valuable playoff experience he does not so ... slight edge I think. Either way, it is a short list in the East.

 

Lundqvist does have big game experience at the international level. Including an Olympic gold.

[navybillsfan]

Miller is doomed... :huh:

 

He will never be anything in the NHL... :huh:

 

He should hang it up! :huh:

 

 

He is OLD! That "kid" will never be able to adjust his game!

 

Same for ole Hasek... When he was sitting on the Chicago bench all those years.... I mean started.... Oh wait, I mean sitting on the Chicago bench for all those years...... :unsure:

 

 

Give him a chance guys.... He does some things at his age that goalies dont start doing until their 7-10 year in the league. Remember all those big saves? That does not happen by luck all the time. I think he can be a great one. Pittsburgh was suppose to draft a great goalie a couple of years ago and look how he turned out... Trash... I think Mil will be something special.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Lundqvist does have big game experience at the international level. Including an Olympic gold.

 

Sorry but the Olympics are not a two-month grind like the playoffs are. That's an emotional roller coaster that will still be new to Lundqvist while Miller has been there now. I'm not ripping Lundqvist here, I could say the same thing about Luongo, I'm not saying they are bad goalies. I just think right now Miller is a great combination of young talent AND playoff experience. Maybe some guys don't need that experience, Ward was a rookie too, but it certainly doesn't hurt.

[hopeleslyobvious]

Miller is doomed... :huh:

 

He will never be anything in the NHL... :huh:

 

He should hang it up! :huh:

He is OLD! That "kid" will never be able to adjust his game!

 

Same for ole Hasek... When he was sitting on the Chicago bench all those years.... I mean started.... Oh wait, I mean sitting on the Chicago bench for all those years...... :unsure:

Give him a chance guys.... He does some things at his age that goalies dont start doing until their 7-10 year in the league. Remember all those big saves? That does not happen by luck all the time. I think he can be a great one. Pittsburgh was suppose to draft a great goalie a couple of years ago and look how he turned out... Trash... I think Mil will be something special.

 

Are you talking about Fleury? I wouldn't rule him out just yet. He's 21. Many goalies (including Miller) aren't ready for the NHL until around 25.

[apuszczalowski]

Are you talking about Fleury? I wouldn't rule him out just yet. He's 21. Many goalies (including Miller) aren't ready for the NHL until around 25.

Yeah, Fleury came straight into the league when he was drafted and was sent back and forth to the minors, unlike Miller who was in the minors for a while and getting called up when he was ready. Fleury is still really young and might take a few more years til he shows his potential.

[LabattBlue]

Miller is doomed... :huh:

 

He will never be anything in the NHL... :huh:

 

He should hang it up! :huh:

He is OLD! That "kid" will never be able to adjust his game!

 

Do the words "over dramatic" mean anything to you? Go back and read the previous posts in this thread. No one is suggesting anything like this. <_<

[Kristian]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it pretty normal for players to see sports psychologists?

 

I'd take Miller crying after a big loss over Marty smiling after one any day.

 

Amen :D

 

Pittsburgh was suppose to draft a great goalie a couple of years ago and look how he turned out... Trash... I think Mil will be something special.

 

Although I agree that Fleury has been shaky, you have to remember he's been playing for one of the worst teams in the league, which hasn't made things easier for him.

 

He's very young still though, so the jury's still out on him.