An indication most fans don't really believe in The Plan

[apuszczalowski]

Well, I think you like to ignore what people actually say. No one has said you can plug any player in to the lineup and the team will still be successful. I can't speak for everyone else, but here is my position:

 

1. The team has a limited budget (self imposed and salary cap).

2. Every dollar you overpay one player, is a dollar you can't spend elsewhere

3. The best way to spend the money is to have a solid roster top to bottom rather than spending big money on a few players at the expense of the 3rd and 4th line, and the 5th and 6th defensemen.

Maybe your ignoring people here to, because most of the time they mention a player like McKee, or Grier leaving, everyones answer is that someone like Novotny, or Paille will come in and replace them. All I hear about is how important it is to keep the entire team together yet when a player mentions not playing here next year it becomes "he's not part of the core, and not worth the money"

 

And Deluca - $3 mil + for a 60 point a year player would not be worth it, but Briere (who your refering too) had 60 points last year, in a year that he played less then a full season, and if you took the pace he was on if he stayed healthey, he would have been a 90-100 point player. Unfortunatley for you, I think you are going to be very disapointed this offseason when you see what Briere will be making, until of course next offseason when you will be praising him and Regier and telling us about how great he played this season.

[PASabreFan]

Again, you try to create a straw-man. You assume because I support Regier, I believe he is without fault....

 

Speaking of strawmen, when did I say that?

 

My strawman can beat up your strawman. Easy.

 

Now pull out one of your ad hominum attacks.

 

What are we, two old philosophy majors? :)

[hopeleslyobvious]

Maybe your ignoring people here to, because most of the time they mention a player like McKee, or Grier leaving, everyones answer is that someone like Novotny, or Paille will come in and replace them. All I hear about is how important it is to keep the entire team together yet when a player mentions not playing here next year it becomes "he's not part of the core, and not worth the money"

 

And Deluca - $3 mil + for a 60 point a year player would not be worth it, but Briere (who your refering too) had 60 points last year, in a year that he played less then a full season, and if you took the pace he was on if he stayed healthey, he would have been a 90-100 point player. Unfortunatley for you, I think you are going to be very disapointed this offseason when you see what Briere will be making, until of course next offseason when you will be praising him and Regier and telling us about how great he played this season.

 

Novotny and Paille filling in for McKee? Now you're really putting words in people's mouths. Seeing that they are both forwards, I don't really see anyone here suggesting that they will fill in for McKee. Speaking of McKee's replacement...are you just forgetting that whole Spacek deal because it doesn't help your argument?

 

As for Grier, seeing Darcy offered him the exact same deal as SJ, you can't really criticize Darcy for Grier leaving.

[Eleven]

A lot of debate here which I can't parse through at the moment...just want to say that the architect is still around; the construction foremen have left, is all. Too bad, yes; however, the "planner" still is Regier.

[apuszczalowski]

A lot of debate here which I can't parse through at the moment...just want to say that the architect is still around; the construction foremen have left, is all. Too bad, yes; however, the "planner" still is Regier.

All Hail REGIER!!!!

 

Obvious- I just picked 2 random players that could come in and try to make the team this year from Rochester. I was saying either was going to replace McKee, they are just 2 players I have heard posters say could replace players who move on.

[jad1]

Speaking of strawmen, when did I say that?

 

My strawman can beat up your strawman. Easy.

 

Now pull out one of your ad hominum attacks.

 

What are we, two old philosophy majors? :)

 

My comment was based on this post you made, regarding me, earlier in the thread:

 

Isn't it odd that you claim someone was dumping on Darcy, yet you were the first person in the thread to actually do it, criticizing his draft record? Oh the hilarity!

 

Nice avatar, though.

 

And, please, keep your pants on from now on.

 

You surmised that because I support the idea that Regier is an excellent GM, that I believe his tenure here is beyond criticism. Thus your catty remark "Oh the hilarity."

 

As for ad hominum attacks, after reading your baseless attacks on Golisano, I thought they were the coin of the realm here. I'll reel them in from now on. :D

[deluca67]

Maybe your ignoring people here to, because most of the time they mention a player like McKee, or Grier leaving, everyones answer is that someone like Novotny, or Paille will come in and replace them. All I hear about is how important it is to keep the entire team together yet when a player mentions not playing here next year it becomes "he's not part of the core, and not worth the money"

 

And Deluca - $3 mil + for a 60 point a year player would not be worth it, but Briere (who your refering too) had 60 points last year, in a year that he played less then a full season, and if you took the pace he was on if he stayed healthey, he would have been a 90-100 point player. Unfortunatley for you, I think you are going to be very disapointed this offseason when you see what Briere will be making, until of course next offseason when you will be praising him and Regier and telling us about how great he played this season.

 

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

 

urg hum uh... What???

 

 

Sorry I fell asleep. I was reading your TBD posts......

 

Cry all you want about Briere and only playing half a season. Tough titties :lol:

 

Briere will enjoy his $5 million a year in LA or Montreal. Or any big market that wants to overpay for an average hockey player. :blush:

[apuszczalowski]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

 

urg hum uh... What???

Sorry I fell asleep. I was reading your TBD posts......

Which one?

 

Cry all you want about Briere and only playing half a season. Tough titties :lol:

 

Briere will enjoy his $5 million a year in LA or Montreal. Or any big market that wants to overpay for an average hockey player. :blush:

Thats fine, cause by next offseason you'll probably have pulled another 180 and be bashing Rgier for giving him away while Buffalo struggles to make the playoffs, but is atleast making a couple bucks

[jad1]

Change Strawmwn to Strawwoman and I don't care what you call me

 

Strawman refers to the opposing argument you frame in attempt to rail against it in an effort to make your point, it doesn't refer to you personally. Traditionally, it's called a strawman, but in the name of gender-neutrality, we could call it a straw-person. :lol:

 

And where did you pick up that I said his last ECF shouldn't count because it was his "only" one? My point was, anytime I say something negative about Darcy, I get "Well he has been to the ECF 3 times in 7 years, thats not bad". My point is, 2 of times you could have had Rochester playing on the ice infront of Hasek and we probably would have still been in the finals. Hasek carried that team for years and that made the team look alot better.

 

No doubt Hasek was the guy the team was built upon, but he wasn't the only reason the Sabres were successful. For example, the Sabres scored 18 goals in their four wins against the Leafs in the '99 ECF. And they played two games without him (and were .500) when he was injured and pulled his diva act, punching a reporter. Regier aquisitions such as Wooley, Warner, Barnes, Sanderson, and Juneau were among the guys who also contributed to the team's success.

 

 

I'm basing my Darcy is a genius comments on the responses I get that every player can be replaced by one that is currently in Rochester, the response I get that he only makes good trades that are steals, and the comments of him having a "Plan" and knows what it takes to win in the new NHL.

 

And here's the strawman. Nobody has stated all you claim above about Regier in a single argument. Nobody argues that Regier is without flaw.

 

Its funny how he went from being a whipping boy last offseason (when he had been to 2 ECF's in 6 years and had the same great trade record as now) to almost being spotted walking across lake Erie

 

Nobody has claimed he can walk across Lake Erie, except you (see? strawman, eh strawperson).

 

And sure, many believed last season that Regier might be on his way out, including myself. However, you'll have to admit, that he has proven his then-detractors (including myself) wrong with last season's results.

 

That's why people are willing to give Regier the benefit of the doubt, because he's earned it.

[apuszczalowski]

Nobody has claimed he can walk across Lake Erie, except you (see? strawman, eh strawperson).

 

And sure, many believed last season that Regier might be on his way out, including myself. However, you'll have to admit, that he has proven his then-detractors (including myself) wrong with last season's results.

 

That's why people are willing to give Regier the benefit of the doubt, because he's earned it.

Thats fine that many of you are willing to give Regier the benefit of the doubt because you beleive that he earned it after one good year, I on the other hand am not willing to jump on the Regier bandwagon until he shows me that one year wasn't just a fluke and that he really knows what it takes to win.

 

As for the Strawman/woman comment, it was just a joke

[jad1]

Thats fine that many of you are willing to give Regier the benefit of the doubt because you beleive that he earned it after one good year, I on the other hand am not willing to jump on the Regier bandwagon until he shows me that one year wasn't just a fluke and that he really knows what it takes to win.

 

As for the Strawman/woman comment, it was just a joke

 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

You're pretty dense! That's cool though, it takes all kinds. Thanks for the laugh!

[PASabreFan]

Speaking of dense, do you really believe it was 1999 when Hasek "injured" his knee and grabbed Jim Kelley by the collar? Perhaps Dom was choking you when you wrote that post, cutting off all circulation to your brain. :) :) :)

[deluca67]

Thats fine, cause by next offseason you'll probably have pulled another 180 and be bashing Rgier for giving him away while Buffalo struggles to make the playoffs, but is atleast making a couple bucks

 

The did so poorly without him this season :lol:

[jad1]

Speaking of dense, do you really believe it was 1999 when Hasek "injured" his knee and grabbed Jim Kelley by the collar? Perhaps Dom was choking you when you wrote that post, cutting off all circulation to your brain. :) :) :)

 

Nice job, you got me. I confused the Toronto ECF final and the '97 Ottawa series. Give yourself a medal, one of my 'facts' posted against a factless argument was wrong. :D

[Bmwolf21]

While there are some here not ready to jump on the Regier bandwagon, there sure are a few who would like to shove him under said bandwagon - especially for moves he hasn't yet made.

 

My disjointed thoughts on the offseason so far - this team went to the ECF and came within 20 minutes of a trip to the SCF, so when a team has some success but doesn't reach the ultimate prize, the management will tinker with/tweak the roster to hopefully push the team over the top. While that's happening, other team's idiot GMs will come in and throw obscene $$ at successful teams' UFAs (see McKee, Jay.) Since there is a new economic reality in the NHL, MOST teams try to refrain from overpaying for players (unless your GM's name is Clarke or Ferguson) meaning you have to make hard decisions on who to keep, what kind of value each player has, etc. I am sure Darcy, Lindy & company have had some discussions about which players they would want to bring in if player X leaves the team. Maybe I am giving Darcy too much credit, but I don't think he waited until McKee signed with the Blues, and then hung up the phone and yelled "Oh No! What are we going to do? how will we ever replace him?"

 

My main point is that I would rather see how the whole roster shakes out and see what Lindy has to work with come September & October, rather than pissing and moaning about how the sky is falling, even though there is still a couple full months until camp opens. There are still have moves we can make, FA we can sign, guys we can trade, etc., so let's not get hung up on one player staying or leaving yet, at least until we know for sure what the situation is.

[Taro T]

While there are some here not ready to jump on the Regier bandwagon, there sure are a few who would like to shove him under said bandwagon - especially for moves he hasn't yet made.

 

My disjointed thoughts on the offseason so far - this team went to the ECF and came within 20 minutes of a trip to the SCF, so when a team has some success but doesn't reach the ultimate prize, the management will tinker with/tweak the roster to hopefully push the team over the top. While that's happening, other team's idiot GMs will come in and throw obscene $$ at successful teams' UFAs (see McKee, Jay.) Since there is a new economic reality in the NHL, MOST teams try to refrain from overpaying for players (unless your GM's name is Clarke or Ferguson) meaning you have to make hard decisions on who to keep, what kind of value each player has, etc. I am sure Darcy, Lindy & company have had some discussions about which players they would want to bring in if player X leaves the team. Maybe I am giving Darcy too much credit, but I don't think he waited until McKee signed with the Blues, and then hung up the phone and yelled "Oh No! What are we going to do? how will we ever replace him?"

 

My main point is that I would rather see how the whole roster shakes out and see what Lindy has to work with come September & October, rather than pissing and moaning about how the sky is falling, even though there is still a couple full months until camp opens. There are still have moves we can make, FA we can sign, guys we can trade, etc., so let's not get hung up on one player staying or leaving yet, at least until we know for sure what the situation is.

Nice post.

[apuszczalowski]

Nice job, you got me. I confused the Toronto ECF final and the '97 Ottawa series. Give yourself a medal, one of my 'facts' posted against a factless argument was wrong. :D

Nice job to you, I get called dense by you, when you screw up your "facts" in your arguement against me. :rolleyes:

 

My main point is that I would rather see how the whole roster shakes out and see what Lindy has to work with come September & October, rather than pissing and moaning about how the sky is falling, even though there is still a couple full months until camp opens. There are still have moves we can make, FA we can sign, guys we can trade, etc., so let's not get hung up on one player staying or leaving yet, at least until we know for sure what the situation is.

 

And I would rather wait til I see a couple years of success from Regier before I start praising his "Great Work"

[Bmwolf21]

And I would rather wait til I see a couple years of success from Regier before I start praising his "Great Work"

Apparently you & I differ on what "waiting to see success" is. I prefer to look at a GM who has robbed some teams blind in the trade market; has assembled teams that have three ECF and one SCF appearance in his tenure (I'm calling BS on the "Amerks could have played in front of Hasek & we still would have made the finals" comment); and has put together a young, strong, fast, skilled core that we can enjoy for years (slug logo or not.)

 

I also think there is a line between waiting to praise him and actively bashing him, which is what some posters on this board are doing. If you want to reserve judgement on his tenure as Sabres' GM, that's fine, but be fair about it and don't rip him for every move (and every non-move) he has made/might make/you think he should make - at least until you see what kind of roster he has put together for 06-07. If he trades Briere for a used puck bag and a couple of stick boys, then by all means rip into him - I'll be there right beside you. All I am saying is he has had success as the team's GM, so saying that last year's team was a fluke, that Darcy threw some crap at the wall and lucky for him, it stuck - well, it reeks of spolied brat syndrome. Just b/c you might feel he should throw whatever money at Briere, Grier, McKee, whoever, to keep the band together and make another run at it, doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Even though I am on record as saying that if healthy, I think we beat Carolina nine times out of ten in the ECF, and I think we beat Edmonton in 6, we can argue woulda, coulda, shoulda all day - the fact is that team, the way it was set up, didn't get the job done.

 

Last I checked, we aren't coming close to the trade deadline, we aren't in danger of missing the playoffs, and the team isn't playing in front of Amerks-sized crowds. Let's just see what moves he has in store for Briere and Max & co. before we sound the alarms and start cutting eyeholes in the paper bags.

[apuszczalowski]

Apparently you & I differ on what "waiting to see success" is. I prefer to look at a GM who has robbed some teams blind in the trade market; has assembled teams that have three ECF and one SCF appearance in his tenure (I'm calling BS on the "Amerks could have played in front of Hasek & we still would have made the finals" comment); and has put together a young, strong, fast, skilled core that we can enjoy for years (slug logo or not.)

 

I also think there is a line between waiting to praise him and actively bashing him, which is what some posters on this board are doing. If you want to reserve judgement on his tenure as Sabres' GM, that's fine, but be fair about it and don't rip him for every move (and every non-move) he has made/might make/you think he should make - at least until you see what kind of roster he has put together for 06-07. If he trades Briere for a used puck bag and a couple of stick boys, then by all means rip into him - I'll be there right beside you. All I am saying is he has had success as the team's GM, so saying that last year's team was a fluke, that Darcy threw some crap at the wall and lucky for him, it stuck - well, it reeks of spolied brat syndrome. Just b/c you might feel he should throw whatever money at Briere, Grier, McKee, whoever, to keep the band together and make another run at it, doesn't mean its the right thing to do. Even though I am on record as saying that if healthy, I think we beat Carolina nine times out of ten in the ECF, and I think we beat Edmonton in 6, we can argue woulda, coulda, shoulda all day - the fact is that team, the way it was set up, didn't get the job done.

 

Last I checked, we aren't coming close to the trade deadline, we aren't in danger of missing the playoffs, and the team isn't playing in front of Amerks-sized crowds. Let's just see what moves he has in store for Briere and Max & co. before we sound the alarms and start cutting eyeholes in the paper bags.

Ok, I'll make a deal with everyone here, I will wait to pass judgement on Regier and will not make a comment about his work until I see the starting roster, if everyone on this board stops commenting on the supposed new logo until it is officially released.

 

Really now, whats the difference between me saying Regier isn't that great, and everyone calling for Quinns head over what is not even officially announced as the new logo?

[BetweenThePipes00]

Ok, I'll make a deal with everyone here, I will wait to pass judgement on Regier and will not make a comment about his work until I see the starting roster, if everyone on this board stops commenting on the supposed new logo until it is officially released.

Really now, whats the difference between me saying Regier isn't that great, and everyone calling for Quinns head over what is not even officially announced as the new logo?

 

OK I was away over the weekend and i am not going to read this whole thread, but this is the best idea I have heard in weeks. I am so sick of the logo talk it's killing me.

[Bmwolf21]

I'm on board - I'll even amend my sig for you. No other words about the logo (other than my sig) unless I am posting drunk.

 

There - fixed it for ya. No more slug talk for me.

[shrader]

And yet, there's not a peep from any of them when the contract of Don Luce, Director of Player Development, is not renewed and Terry Martin, Director of Pro Scouting, leaves. Now we hear that Jim Benning, Director of Amateur Scouting, is headed out the door. That's a lot of Plan Directors!

 

I just noticed in the TSN transactions that Benning has been hired by Boston as their director of player personel and Doug Houda is now their assistant coach.

[Goodfella25]

I just noticed in the TSN transactions that Benning has been hired by Boston as their director of player personel and Doug Houda is now their assistant coach.

 

 

OH F*CK! I thought he was going to be our 7th defenseman! :D

 

 

We still have Cunneyworth in Rocha-cha, so it's all good.