jad1 Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 jad -- Who's to say he won't sell it to someone outside of Buffalo? It seems his political ambitions have died down, so pissing off some voters in WNY wouldn't be a concern if he has no intention of running again. Buying the Sabres for a low $60 million or whatever the real figure was and selling it high (the Pens are going for $150 million) is a great investment. You are just awfully naive if you think Golisano bought the Sabres out of the goodness of his heart. Let me get this straight. Tom has a right to keep payroll low, run the team in a ruthless way and make a few million a year, but money wouldn't motivate him to sell the team for $100 million or more in profit a few years down the road? Fushetti -- A polecat is another name for a skunk. See Polecat67. Polecat67 -- I didn't say Golisano was in the black. I was saying after he sells the team, he will have made a very tidy profit. Reading is fundamental. PA, you've admitted that you're thinking as a fan during the offseason, and we can all appreciate that; we'd all love to be able to completely embrace the emotional aspect of the game. But let's look at this objectively for a couple of minutes here; it might save us some time moving forward. In terms of the American market, the NHL is a distant fourth to football, baseball, and basketball in terms of popularity. It's TV ratings are lower than figure skating, poker tournaments, and the spelling bee. The Hurricanes, Predators, and Panthers, all 'new,' non-traditional markets struggle to fill 85% of their buildings. The local Stanley Cup ratings in Raliegh didn't crack 10% of the city's households. Sounds like a great investment. A nationally unpopular sport that has a difficult time cracking new markets. I'm sure investors are lining up to drop $150 million on this 'sure-thing.' But let's pursue it further. If a team moves to a market like Portland or Milwaukee that already has an existing NHL-ready arena, the NHL team would be a secondary tenet. Which means a large cut of the concession and parking revenue go to the main tenet (re NBA team). And if an ownership group from a city without an existing arena is interested, the group and the municipality must drop an additional $150-$200 million for a new arena. Sounds like a stupendous investment opportunity to me! As for Golisano, yes I believe his motives in buying the Sabres are what he has claimed. Buying a team on the eve of a lockout with the national TV contract expiring is a lousy investment. Like I said, I appreciate you're making the emotional argument here, and it's always easier to signal out one person and put your finger in his chest when you're in that mode. But you have to acknowledge the fact that there is a salary cap, which requires some sort of business plan to manage. Otherwise, the team ends up like the Flyers, Maple Leafs, and Red Wings, whose previous free spending and bad decisions produced poor results and have handcuffed them this offseason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William2k2DJ Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Everyone calm down. We'll have a channel. The WB and UPN networks are combining, which means there will be an extra station, possibly ran by Fox(my guess). In this case, they'll need programming, and cha-ching, Sabres find their deal. All is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 Everyone calm down. We'll have a channel. The WB and UPN networks are combining, which means there will be an extra station, possibly ran by Fox(my guess). In this case, they'll need programming, and cha-ching, Sabres find their deal. All is good. The leftover station will be dead. Why would Fox run a second station in the area when they don't do a thing with their first station? In real markets, Fox affiliates actually have their own news and other local programming. The Buffalo station doesn't because it's not worth it. Why would they invest in a second station. At best, the station left out of the WB-UPN merger will be some crappy local access station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 I did not predict an "upcoming" sale. I do think, however, he will eventually sell the team. When? I have no idea. Have you guys heard of the concept of "buying low and selling high"? He gambled that the NHL would get its financial house in order, improve its product after the lockout and win the fans back, and that the Sabres would be a viable franchise -- not much of a gamble really. All of that happened. If it continues to happen and terrorists don't poison the water supply, Tom's modest investment will pay off for him down the road. nfreeman, note the context of my comment. It came after Dave theorized that PERHAPS the loss of revenue from the TV contract situation was hamstringing Regier to the tune of three to six million dollars less than expected. I have no reason to believe it's true -- it was just a theory. My question was meant to challenge the view some of you have that Golisano is doing everything that can be fairly expected of him. So I guess if by some chance Dave's theory is true, you don't have a problem with the Sabres team that came within 18 minutes of making the finals being virtually dismantled because the payroll is stuck at 29 million dollars again? P.S. I am not the chief historian. That honor would fall to Dr. Budd Bailey. I am but a sixth grade history teacher, and a mediocre one at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushetti Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 I did not predict an "upcoming" sale. I do think, however, he will eventually sell the team. When? I have no idea. Have you guys heard of the concept of "buying low and selling high"? He gambled that the NHL would get its financial house in order, improve its product after the lockout and win the fans back, and that the Sabres would be a viable franchise -- not much of a gamble really. All of that happened. If it continues to happen and terrorists don't poison the water supply, Tom's modest investment will pay off for him down the road. Didn't Golisano, at purchase time, mention the notion of bringing other investors into the fold? Its been three years now and still he's the only owner. P.S. I am not the chief historian. That honor would fall to Dr. Budd Bailey. I am but a sixth grade history teacher, and a mediocre one at that. You ARE Budd Bailey... who are you kidding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 You ARE Budd Bailey... who are you kidding? Has anyone seen them together at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 I get most of my information FROM Budd Bailey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 If he's $80 million in the hole where does the profit come from? A smart business man like Golisano doesn't spend $80 to make $20. The ROI isn't worth the risk. Instead of just sitting around trying to come up with reasons why everyone in the world is trying to screw over Sabre fans? How about taking a good look at something new to you? Like facts. Golisano put up his own money, no tax payer dollars, to save a failing hockey franchise. He came into a business he knew nothing about knowing full well he might end up taking a huge financial hit on this investment. He, along with Larry Quinn implemented a business plan. He believes in it. And choses no to waiver. He has been rewarded for invest with a great season and a tiny profit that falls way short of the money he has already spent. It as this point you chose to hammer away at Tom Golisano to spend yet more of his own money with complete disregard of his business plan. You somehow feel Golisano owes it to you to lose more and more money. He owes it to you to spend foolish dollars on average players like McKee? Because it will make you feel good? Golisano has given more then enough to WNY. He saved our hockey team and seems to be willing to make the tough/unpopular decisions needed to keep the franchise healthy and in Buffalo. We as fans are not intitled to anything more. You want more? Sellout the building everynight and raise the prices to at least the NHL average. :angry: Also, The Pens are selling for $150 million? Does that included the Arena? Or is that high inorder to cover the teams debt that has built over the years? How about Webcasts/Podcasts? Put the games on the internet and charge a fee? Sell a TV type cast and a seperate radio type cast? Per game or a season package. Not often that I agree with DeLuca (although it is happening more often in the last few days - where have I heard that before?) but he is spot on here. Should we expect the team to show improvement and a dedication to winning? Absolutely - but not at the cost of the franchise's viability in Buffalo. I'm not saying we be satisfied with just having an NHL team, and we shouldn't bend over and worship him and kiss his...feet (what did you think I was going to say?) for saving the franchise, but at the same time, we need to realize that he isn't some rich Daddy Warbucks who is going to dip into his own pocket to give us all the players we want. We have to be fiscally sound the maintain the team's financial stability, and sometimes that will mean making tough decisions. On the other hand, as a fan, part of me screams the same thing others have been saying - we were SO DAMN CLOSE - fill in the missing gaps and lets make a real run at it. But I don't want to jeopordize the team's future in Buffalo for one Cup. Also, FWIW-- MLB sells the MLB.TV package that is 79.95/season or 14.95 per month for all MLB broadcasts available through MLB.com. I can see Sabres fans shelling out 10 or 12 bucks per moth so they can listen to Jeanerette and Lorentz rather than the Bruins announcers (just an example.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I can see Sabres fans shelling out 10 or 12 bucks per moth so they can listen to Jeanerette and Lorentz rather than the Bruins announcers (just an example.) Or Capitals announcers. Or Panthers announcers. Or Islanders announcers. Or Blue Jackets announcers. Or Devils announcers. You get my point. All other announcers suck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I just didn't have the time or patience to list all the other teams' announcers who stink up the airwaves... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 BM (sorry :))... I don't get it. If Golisano makes a decision to "go for it" and adds significantly to payroll but ends up losing a bunch amount of money in the next couple of years, how does that jeopardize the franchise? Golisano would be taking a risk, and he would know it. It's not like he would make the decision ignorant of the possibility of taking a bath. A bath that wouldn't hurt him one bit, by the way. The key question is what is the upside to winning a Cup. Would it set this franchise up to make a ton of money in the next 20 years, finally allowing us to break out small-market shackles? That should be the thought process. I would love to know if that thought has crossed his mind. We'll never know. But knowing would answer all questions about Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Keeping the team in Buffalo is a 2 way street. Tom has to keep the team financially stable to keep them in Buffalo and the fans have to support the team so Tom makes the money to keep the team in Buffalo. Now to get fans to support the team, they have to be successful on the ice and be competitive every year. Fans will come if they know that the team has a chance at winning. That lies on Golisano to make sure he does what it takes to allow Darcy to do what's needed to keep the team competitive. To keep the team competitive every year, Golisano may not be able to just stick to a budget and be able to turn out a winner. He may need to spend a little bit out of his own pocket and take a small loss to get the cup in Buffalo which that alone would almost guarantee atleast a couple years of success at the box office for the Sabres (as long as they don't pull a Florida Marlins and dismantle the team directly afterwards in a fire sale). If Golisano does this, and is still having trouble turning a profit, maybe Buffalo is not the best place for an NHL franchise. Another way is to bring in the Big name superstar (like a Jagr, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc.) that will draw in the crowds to see this superstar play, and will bring in extra revenue with merchandise sales. Buffalo fans have adopted Darcy's plan of cheering for the hard working players over the superstars and are willing to support that. Right now the Sabres are in a very delicate area where they could solidify the financial security of the team, or run it into the ground. If they continue to look at turning a profit first, then success on the ice second, the team will not stay in the black for very long. They had a very good run last year and should be building on it. Darcy's plan kind of Backfired on him last year by waiting to see which of his players would do well in the "New NHL" before signing long term deals. Had he taken a chance on some of the players and given them multi year deals last year, he could have had them alot cheaper then what they will be getting now that they have shown they can play. And for a team on a strict budget, they need the players to play for as cheap as they can get them. Now you will see players leaving a team on the verge not because they aren't good or because they don't fit the system, but because Buffalo can't afford what they are worth on the open market. Yes, they are all RFA's so the team has more leverage, but what if a bunch of them go to Arbitration? Or they decide that they know Buffalo cannot give them anywhere near what the open market will so the sign the qualifying offer and play for a big contract when they become a UFA. (Something Briere could do this year) the budget the Sabres are prediciting for this offseason +/- 34 million should pretty much cover the raises most of the RFA's will get this year and still leaves us a couple holes to fill in FA. AS I have said many times before, I am not looking at them to go sign a bunch of high priced, big name FA's on the market, I just want to see them spend the money to keep this successful team together and make the necessary moves to improve on the team so we can compete for the division and win the cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I know we have this phony "lovefest" thing going between us, just to annoy the others, but honestly that was a tremendous post. I can't see how there's much for anyone to disagree with there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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