Fixing the power play

[Big Guava]

On 8/29/2025 at 10:38 AM, dudacek said:

 

 

And this is where Josh Norris comes in: 61.2% on PP faceoffs last year.

He's also effective on the PP in general: he averaged 3 minutes a game last year and his career goals per 60 on the PP is 2.83

These are the Sabres numbers from last year in that stat:

• Zucker 3.16
• Thompson 1.90
• Benson 1.70
• Peterka 1.61
• Krebs 1.46
• Tuch 0.95

 

 

This. Or maybe Quinn.

Bumper is the most unsettled, least effective spot on the unit. it's a spot that some teams utilize to deadly effect.

You need quick hands and quick reads to make sudden plays in tight, the ability to find seams and create space, and an accurate shot.

Benson can read plays and pass in traffic better than any other forward, but he lacks separation and a killer shot.

Quinn has the hand skills, but frequently isn't sudden enough. Still he creates separation and has a deadly wrister.

I think you lean into one of those guys, hoping Benson's shot has improved, or Quinn's willingness to get to the net and make good puck decisions has returned.

Maybe they could get Bumper to play Bumper?

[SABRES 0311]

Just my opinion on the power play. TT is obviously a threat with his one timer from the left half wall/faceoff circle. Dahlin is the quarterback at the point. To me the question is what other three fill what other roles.

Id like to see Tuch stay between the slot and crease. He can screen or move out for a slot one timer.

Norris can be the behind the net guy. His primary outlets are TT on the left half wall or Tuch in front.

Byram fills the right point and dare I say Quinn on the right half wall. They present secondary shooting/outlet options and are dangerous enough to warrant coverage. 

Scheme: Use Byram, Norris , and Quinn to spread out defenders. This opens passing lanes to the primary shooters, TT and Dahlin.

Tuch stays mobile by moving from crease to high slot and back. As he moves out Norris slides to top of the crease. As Tuch moves down Norris goes behind the net. You maintain a net front screen/tip potential.

Half wall guys (TT and Quinn) carry the puck high or low on the walls. Point and Norris are their outlets.

Center of Gravity: Puck movement high and player movement low. Defenders have to choose one to focus on. Make defenders open their box to open passing lanes.

Primary Result: TT one timer with a Tuch screen. A Tuch one timer from the mid to high slot with Norris screening or looking for a rebound.

Secondary Result: Dahlin shot from the point with a Tuch screen, Norris on the rebound. Or a Quinn one timer on a Tuch screen.

[DarthEbriate]

27 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Just my opinion on the power play. TT is obviously a threat with his one timer from the left half wall/faceoff circle. Dahlin is the quarterback at the point. To me the question is what other three fill what other roles.

Id like to see Tuch stay between the slot and crease. He can screen or move out for a slot one timer.

Norris can be the behind the net guy. His primary outlets are TT on the left half wall or Tuch in front.

Byram fills the right point and dare I say Quinn on the right half wall. They present secondary shooting/outlet options and are dangerous enough to warrant coverage. 

Scheme: Use Byram, Norris , and Quinn to spread out defenders. This opens passing lanes to the primary shooters, TT and Dahlin.

Tuch stays mobile by moving from crease to high slot and back. As he moves out Norris slides to top of the crease. As Tuch moves down Norris goes behind the net. You maintain a net front screen/tip potential.

Half wall guys (TT and Quinn) carry the puck high or low on the walls. Point and Norris are their outlets.

Center of Gravity: Puck movement high and player movement low. Defenders have to choose one to focus on. Make defenders open their box to open passing lanes.

Primary Result: TT one timer with a Tuch screen. A Tuch one timer from the mid to high slot with Norris screening or looking for a rebound.

Secondary Result: Dahlin shot from the point with a Tuch screen, Norris on the rebound. Or a Quinn one timer on a Tuch screen.

Swap Tuch out for Zucker and you’re probably spot on (with Byram if they ever add the D2). Zucker is better on the PP historically than Tuch has ever been, including saving the PP from being league-worst single-handedly last season. Zucker gets deflections, goes to the net, and wins possessions. Save Tuch for PK1 and PP2. 

[dudacek]

I think we’ll probably see Zucker, Tage and Dahlin back in the same spots, with Tage being asked to move around more.

Norris will be on PP1, I’m just not sure if he’s bumper or in Peterka’s old spot.

If he’s in Peterka’s spot Im concerned they’ll make the mistake of Tuch in the bumper again.

If they put him in the bumper, I think Kulich might get Peterka’s spot, which makes sense if they’re looking for the guy most able to give what Peterka gave.

But part of me thinks they will be giving Quinn every opportunity to be a 30-goal man and Appert will be pushing hard to get him on PP1.

Im not expecting them to change their approach much in terms of how they set things up.

Me I’d kinda like to see Byram added for motion and Benson for traffic play because the PP Ned’s more passing.

I think Quinn has the skill set to be excellent on the PP but he was too unreliable last year. 

Tuch would not be a PP1 option for me.

Something like this with lots of rotation and the low guys setting some things up for below the goal line

      Quinn.      Benson

Dahlin.                      Byram 

                  Tage

PP2 

      Tuch           Zucker

Norris.                 Kulich

              Power

[Carmel Corn]

IMHO - the team still needs a player who is a puck handler capable of gaining access to the offensive zone.  We can't rely on dump and chase to reacquire possession and then setup, but rather somebody who can maintain possession getting over the blue line.  

[Mustache of God]

The team needs to learn how to get both the puck and the players moving once they establish possession. They all seemed to stand still once they got the puck and just passed it around the perimeter before eventually taking a low % shot. I can't believe Tage only had 7 PP goals last season, that  needs to increase. It seems like teams figured the guy covering him could cheat a little bit knowing the Sabres players really don't move around a lot. 

I wouldn't mind seeing Tage and Kulich on both walls and Dahlin can help cycle the puck to open up some space for one of those guys to start ripping one timers. 

[Pimlach]

On 8/29/2025 at 7:57 AM, PASabreFan said:

Some of you guys should put your name in. No, seriously, it's amazing you never got beyond SabreSpace.

I missed commenting in this thread somehow.  I must say I agree with several opinions here on what is wrong and some of the proposed changes seem logical.  Bottom line is the power play production does not match the talent and that is a problem.  

On 8/29/2025 at 10:44 AM, PASabreFan said:

I'll get there.

But, really, it's not our job. I do understand why some fans would look at our front office, our coaches and our roster and say, "Only I can fix it."

No one says "only I can fix it".  The mantra is more like "when will Terry hire a qualified NHL hockey guy to fix this".   I will add that I think I could do no worse than Adams.  

On 8/29/2025 at 11:56 AM, PASabreFan said:

The analogies I've used over the years are many. But can you imagine being a fan of a band, and you enhance your enjoyment of being a fan of that band by rewriting all of their songs so they don't suck?

If you thought the songs sucked you would not be a fan of the band, so no, I cannot imagine that.  

On 8/30/2025 at 10:53 AM, PASabreFan said:

No jealousy a'tall. Not of mouse potatoes who think they can draw up a peeper better than NHL coaches, anyway. The person I'm jealous of is the grandma in the Dunn sweater and the tasseled hat she's worn since Day One. She loves the team, every team, relishes every win and lets every loss roll off her back.

That generation is pretty much gone, and the one that followed it has run out of patience too.  

[dudacek]

Seth Appert talks about how he reworked the power play, with the help of Sam Ventura

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-training-camp-power-play-seth-appert

[GASabresIUFAN]

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Seth Appert talks about how he reworked the power play, with the help of Sam Ventura

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-training-camp-power-play-seth-appert

If the PP we saw yesterday was the reworked version Appert and Ventura should be fired immediately.  It was the same old same old; pass the puck to Tage for a one timer.  

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Seth Appert talks about how he reworked the power play, with the help of Sam Ventura

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/news/buffalo-sabres-training-camp-power-play-seth-appert

He KINDA says the right things, but from watching how the only significant difference so far between last year's PP and this year's is that Norris wins draws and Cozens and Tage didn't, it looks the same and it's pretty clear that though he kinda knows the right things to say, he doesn't really understand WHY they're the right things.

He says he wants "predictability and structure" which on their surface are good things to have.  It's good for guys to know that their teammates are going to do certain things or move to certain places when they get the puck in a certain place so that they can move the puck to them quickly.  But the predictability is of them dropping the puck back and having Thompson stay glued to his face off dot.  They aren't getting predictible (to themselves) on how a guy will break to the net if the play moves this way and might back away to the boards while somebody else sneaks down low so that when the guy with the puck sends it to the guy who's now at the boards, he can send it below the goalline and the original puck carrier who made that 1st pass breaks into the slot looking for a 1 or 2 touch pass for a 1 timer while the goalie is changing his view from below the goal line to back up high.  And if the defender is cheating farther out that 1st guy will break towards the net looking for either a 1 timer or a give and go to the 1st guy who also is moving towards the net but on the opposite side forcing the goalie to move if they do run the give and go.  THAT's the sort of predictability they need.  Not, Power will skate the puck up ice as slow as he possibly can and then throw a 120' pass back to Benson or Quinn between the faceoff dots.

But, but, Dahlin didn't drop pass the puck and he scored on an end-to-end play.  Doesn't this mean they don't ALWAYS do the drop pass?  Yes, yes it does mean they don't always use the 120' (and yes, that's SLIGHTLY hyperbolic, but not by much) drop pass; but Dahlin was foregoing it himself some last year as well when he saw the defenders cheating the drop pass.  THAT being successful isn't on coaching, it's on having one of the 3 best D in the league on the roster and letting HIM be unpredictable.

He also was excited about getting a PP with one of the 3 best D in the league, and one of the 5 best shooters in the league, along with a guy who's better than average at net front into the middle of the pack.  Oh, goody, goody, gumdrops; with some of the best talent in the league on the PP WE'VE COACHED THEM UP TO MIDDLE OF THE PACK!  That is so ridiculously pathetic it isn't even humorous.

And the PP being awful IMHO goes a long way towards the PK being awful (which goes a long way towards the PP being awful; it's an amplifier) because the PP gets stationary and the PK is stationary (and the PK being stationary is to a large degree good; but they have to understand when and where to attack and they don't do that well at all) so neither figures out how to bring dynacism to the unit.

Hey, we need to outwork the PK.  No Schlitz, Sherlock.  The day you actually let TWO PPers try to win a board battle rather than just watching 1 try to win it; will be a wonderful day in this city and they probably should have a parade for it; because it'll mean you've actually finally twigged onto how to do something rather than just give it lip service.  The day they actually have 2 or 3 guys in motion while they control the puck; not just when they're entering the zone or right off the faceoff, will also be a banner day; because again, it'll mean you've actually finally twigged onto how to do something rather than just give it lip service.

The fact that he's asking the analytics guys how to do this, though it should be encouraging, likely will backfire because he'll probably understand it about as well as Patrick Roy understood the analytics guys telling him that puck possession was a true key metric to winning games so he'd start having his players move the puck around the zone like it was a Sabres PP and then he wondered why they were at the bottom of the league standings (but we possess the puck); well possession without shots doesn't translate into wins.  It't the teams actually shooting and then getting the puck back and winning the possession battles that are winning the games because they're getting rebound chances which are chaotic.

We want structure says Appert.  Yes, but that structure must be used to generate chaos that you can capitalize on.  You've been bottom of the league on PP using your structure.  

Really not expecting much from the PP overall.  Do expect them, simply because of how much talent they can deploy on it for it to get into a groove for a month or so.  But don't expect it to last the full year (or even significant portions of it) and do expect overall it to be a problem again.  Hoping that take is wrong and even an old RPI guy can learn new tricks; but won't have money on it.

[dudacek]

I was surprised to read they were over 22% after Christmas.

Also surprised that they are 4 for 17 in the preseason.

[Taro T]

13 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I was surprised to read they were over 22% after Christmas.

Also surprised that they are 4 for 17 in the preseason.

Aren't 2 of those from the B-squad?  Also, the 1st PP goal came about 20 seconds after the 1st shortie they gave up.  So, essentially, they're net 3-17.