Sabres looking for Senior Advisor for Adams and Hockey Department

[JohnC]

42 minutes ago, tom webster said:

In the end of the day, as bad as I think Adams has been, signing Ullmark might have completely changed his tenure. His misfortune was Seattle acquiring two hot goalies off the market thus setting a series of signings in motion that lead Linus to Boston.

I agree with you that how the goalie issue was addressed did a lot of damage. I'm sure you are aware of I'm a harsh critic of KA. But in the Ullmark situation I'm somewhat sympathetic to him for how the Ullmark situation ended. I really believe that the Ullmark camp indicated to him that he was going to sign. The mistake the GM made was not having a fallback position if the UFA didn't sign.

Compare our situation with the Washington Capitals? They revamped their goalie position by acquiring Logan Thompson and Lindgren on relatively cheap deals. A little imagination and aggressiveness in addressing weaknesses can go a long way. Our GM has to make it a priority to address this position this offseason. That's an imperative!

And as you point out with your incisive observation about the Ullmark scenario, good goaltending can compensate for other deficiencies. And bad goaltending sabotages a lot of your good works. 

Edited yesterday at 04:32 PM by JohnC

[JohnC]

49 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

Unless, he hires someone from one of the fallen playoff teams.  

I hope so. There is some speculation that former Sabre, Rick Dudley, might be selected for an oversight position here. If that is the case then what will be the power dynamic with our current GM if he is retained, as I expect? 

[JohnC]

57 minutes ago, French Collection said:

The time to hire a senior advisor was when TP went out on a limb and hired a first time GM with no front office experience. Out of work experienced people may have jumped at the chance to have a high level role in the NHL and to mentor a young unknown candidate.

Now, WTF is the role here??? Owner who thinks he is hockey smart, GM who has failed for 5 years to take a step forward and a coaching staff that is at least a level below the NHL.

You and I are riding on the same bus. The main source of this franchise's failure is the owner. Blunder after blunder. Opportunities existed for him to get this franchise back on course. He selected the wrong people for critical positions, and it has haunted this franchise. We have a stubborn owner who didn't own his own limitations yet continued to make wrong decisions. It gets tiresome. 

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

The repeating mistake is that the people who drove you into the ditch are now expected to drive you out of the ditch. This was the offseason where the owner's focus right after the season concluded should have been on finding the right Head of Hockey Operations and a new GM. The stubborn owner seemed to be flummoxed to the point of being frozen. It's a sad state of affairs. 

 

I disagree with him being stubborn or at minimum that is known.  He fired GM's and coaches consistently at the behest of fan pressure and a desire to show action meant caring.  It didn't work.  IMO, we're in the recovery phase of that debacle at the same time seeing if the opposite of knee jerk works.  I think we're at the extreme end of that and it's got fans frustrated.  But the narrative, "do something" is hardly factual.  The only thing we haven't done is fire KA and spend.

[Taro T]

59 minutes ago, tom webster said:

In the end of the day, as bad as I think Adams has been, signing Ullmark might have completely changed his tenure. His misfortune was Seattle acquiring two hot goalies off the market thus setting a series of signings in motion that lead Linus to Boston.

Signing Ullmark would've changed the trajectory.  They almost definitely would've made the playoffs the 91 point year.  But Adams and Granato would've just been more convinced they were right about where the team was.  And it isn't likely Granato gets punted for missing the playoffs again the next year (should Ullmark have not been enough to get them into the playoffs again that next year).

Of course, having Ullmark also significantly changes the Reinhart trade (presuming he and Eichel still would've desperately wanted out of the organization) as with having Ullmark and UPL in the system and Portillo on the 50 man reserve list they likely don't take Levi as the other 1/2 of that deal.  They also likely take Cossa or Wallstadt with the pick they got from FLA.  (As they wouldn't be as concerned about Portillo walking as it would've been almost definite he'd walk with both Ullmark AND UPL ahead of him.)

Heck, Covid did a serious # on them as if not for that they likely sign Reinhart and Ullmark to LT deals and maybe they manage to not have Montour and McCabe want out as well.  The Krakers likely come into the league when they were supposed to and then the Sabres don't even lose Borgen as they had pretty much nobody of consequence beyond their 7-3-1 to protect.

Sooooo many little items through the years ended up having significantly more impact on this tragedy than they should've.  Going back to O'Reilly creating the drive through at Timmy Ho's which make the Pegulas regret having signed him eventually leading to them not only wanting him out but also being unwilling to pay the July 1 bonus payment which led to the return for him only being what it was, to Lehner hitting the post going around the net which messed up his ankle which kept him out of games and in Murray and Bylsma's world kept him apart from the team (at least according to Lehner), to Eichel suffering the high ankle sprain in the last full practice before the RS started the next year, to ...

[Thorny]

Ya the only thing we haven’t done is the two things most accurately tied to making the playoffs. Those are the only things! 

We cut bait too quickly. We need to allow Adams to miss the playoffs double the amount of every current GM, being worse than everyone else for a longer period of time isn’t enough of a sample size 

9 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

I disagree with him being stubborn or at minimum that is known.  He fired GM's and coaches consistently at the behest of fan pressure and a desire to show action meant caring.  It didn't work.  IMO, we're in the recovery phase of that debacle at the same time seeing if the opposite of knee jerk works.  I think we're at the extreme end of that and it's got fans frustrated.  But the narrative, "do something" is hardly factual.  The only thing we haven't done is fire KA and spend.

No, he fired Botterill because he disagreed with Terry about not spending money 

that he’s operating at the bequest of the fans is an utter fabrication. Just another attempt to blame the fans 

framing is too see through. “You know what, we’ve probably honestly only really been bad because Terry feels pressured to please the fans. If he is patient and does it his way, and doesn’t let those angry, impatient fans get in the way, it could work! The only thing we haven’t tried is getting away from the demands of the awful fanbase. The problem with the team, after all.” 

Edited yesterday at 05:11 PM by Thorny

[Thorny]

13 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Signing Ullmark would've changed the trajectory.  They almost definitely would've made the playoffs the 91 point year.  But Adams and Granato would've just been more convinced they were right about where the team was.  And it isn't likely Granato gets punted for missing the playoffs again the next year (should Ullmark have not been enough to get them into the playoffs again that next year).

Of course, having Ullmark also significantly changes the Reinhart trade (presuming he and Eichel still would've desperately wanted out of the organization) as with having Ullmark and UPL in the system and Portillo on the 50 man reserve list they likely don't take Levi as the other 1/2 of that deal.  They also likely take Cossa or Wallstadt with the pick they got from FLA.  (As they wouldn't be as concerned about Portillo walking as it would've been almost definite he'd walk with both Ullmark AND UPL ahead of him.)

Heck, Covid did a serious # on them as if not for that they likely sign Reinhart and Ullmark to LT deals and maybe they manage to not have Montour and McCabe want out as well.  The Krakers likely come into the league when they were supposed to and then the Sabres don't even lose Borgen as they had pretty much nobody of consequence beyond their 7-3-1 to protect.

Sooooo many little items through the years ended up having significantly more impact on this tragedy than they should've.  Going back to O'Reilly creating the drive through at Timmy Ho's which make the Pegulas regret having signed him eventually leading to them not only wanting him out but also being unwilling to pay the July 1 bonus payment which led to the return for him only being what it was, to Lehner hitting the post going around the net which messed up his ankle which kept him out of games and in Murray and Bylsma's world kept him apart from the team (at least according to Lehner), to Eichel suffering the high ankle sprain in the last full practice before the RS started the next year, to ...

When you put it this way, it’s a miracle Adams is able to put his pants on properly in the morning. Poor guy, I feel bad for him. We are so unlucky! 

I don’t think it’s fair to say we can accurately or fairly judge his tenure so far. It’s early, very early, he fielded a playoff team if not for getting totally screwed over by Ullmark, and he was behind the 8 ball from day one 

So many little items.

pay no attention to not spending at all for 5 years behind the curtain 

so many little things! For the life of me I cannot figure out why not prioritizing winning leads to not winning. I just can’t figure it out. What could Kevyn Adams have even done 

Edited yesterday at 05:17 PM by Thorny

[7+6=13]

42 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Ya the only thing we haven’t done is the two things most accurately tied to making the playoffs. Those are the only things! 

We cut bait too quickly. We need to allow Adams to miss the playoffs double the amount of every current GM, being worse than everyone else for a longer period of time isn’t enough of a sample size 

No, he fired Botterill because he disagreed with Terry about not spending money 

that he’s operating at the bequest of the fans is an utter fabrication. Just another attempt to blame the fans 

framing is too see through. “You know what, we’ve probably honestly only really been bad because Terry feels pressured to please the fans. If he is patient and does it his way, and doesn’t let those angry, impatient fans get in the way, it could work! The only thing we haven’t tried is getting away from the demands of the awful fanbase. The problem with the team, after all.” 

Who are you putting in quotations?  I didn't say any of that.  My apologies if I assumed you're saying I'm saying that. 

I do think it was important to him to please fans, as it should.  I just think he thought the next approach should be patience and even though the fans won't want to hear that, we'll make it worth it.  It didn't work.  Just as constantly changing didn't, or spending, or drafting a star.  

I just don't believe it's truth, that he doesn't care or he's in coast mode, etc.  IMO, it's actually quite ridiculous to believe that as a fact.

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

When you put it this way, it’s a miracle Adams is able to put his pants on properly in the morning. Poor guy, I feel bad for him. We are so unlucky! 

I don’t think it’s fair to say we can accurately or fairly judge his tenure so far. It’s early, very early, he fielded a playoff team if not for getting totally screwed over by Ullmark, and he was behind the 8 ball from day one 

So many little items.

pay no attention to not spending at all for 5 years behind the curtain 

so many little things! For the life of me I cannot figure out why not prioritizing winning leads to not winning. I just can’t figure it out. What could Kevyn Adams have even done 

You know d*mn well that I believe Adams should have been fired.

You also know that I was extremely unhappy with the decision to blow the Eichel team up.  And getting rid of O'Reilly even further back.

 

[Dr. Who]

1 hour ago, 7+6=13 said:

Who are you putting in quotations?  I didn't say any of that.  My apologies if I assumed you're saying I'm saying that. 

I do think it was important to him to please fans, as it should.  I just think he thought the next approach should be patience and even though the fans won't want to hear that, we'll make it worth it.  It didn't work.  Just as constantly changing didn't, or spending, or drafting a star.  

I just don't believe it's truth, that he doesn't care or he's in coast mode, etc.  IMO, it's actually quite ridiculous to believe that as a fact.

There's no plausible argument that justifies KA still being the GM. Whether TP cares or not, and to what degree, only God accurately knows. What is unquestionable, is that he is historically inept as an NHL owner, because you are what your record says.

 

[Flashsabre]

7 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

There's no plausible argument that justifies KA still being the GM. Whether TP cares or not, and to what degree, only God accurately knows. What is unquestionable, is that he is historically inept as an NHL owner, because you are what your record says.

 

There was no plausible argument that justified KA being hired in the first place.

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

There's no plausible argument that justifies KA still being the GM. Whether TP cares or not, and to what degree, only God accurately knows. What is unquestionable, is that he is historically inept as an NHL owner, because you are what your record says.

 

There is one reason.  If he is under contract.  

That's not being questioned because it's boring.

[Dr. Who]

40 minutes ago, 7+6=13 said:

There is one reason.  If he is under contract.  

That's not being questioned because it's boring.

Incompetent professionals under contract are routinely fired; sometimes competent ones, to be fair, though that isn't KA. Saying he is under contract is near to a tautology, which is indeed boring. One can surmise multiple reasons of the sort you propose. TP is comfortable with KA. TP doesn't want to pay another poor hire not to work for him. The likely answer is that KA is a figurehead who accommodates Pegula's prejudices. 

In my view, a team associated with a community is a kind of trust. A bad owner may treat it as a private property, like a personal vehicle. It's nobody's business what he does with his yacht. However, it is actually unjust to continue modes of action that consistently have bad results when the recipient of that action involves an entity greater than the private. At minimum, he has alienated a generation of fans, provoked indifference in many younger folk, and provided very little return to those who invested in season tickets.

Anyway, I suppose you think everything is reasonably answered by Pegula's right to do what he wants with his toys.

 

[JohnC]

6 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

The only thing we haven't done is fire KA and spend.

That's like saying the only thing I did wrong is shoot the gun and have the bullet hit the person I was arguing with squarely in the head. Your defense then becomes it wasn't my fault that this so-called victim didn't have a head hard enough for the bullet to bounce off of.  I'm not trying to ridicule or be mean-spirited, but your logic eludes me. 

And the argument that the owner does care is irrelevant. The issue is whether TP, during his tenure as an owner, has made enough good decisions that help the team win. The accumulated record for the past generation indicates no.  

Edited 19 hours ago by JohnC

[Thorny]

3 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

There is one reason.  If he is under contract.  

That's not being questioned because it's boring.

Then why did you “X” the “in the first place” comment?

you love GMKA. It ok. Just admit it 

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

That's like saying the only thing I did wrong is shoot the gun and have the bullet hit the person I was arguing with squarely in the head. Your defense then becomes it wasn't my fault that this so-called victim didn't have a head hard enough for the bullet to bounce off of.  I'm not trying to ridicule or be mean-spirited, but your logic eludes me. 

And the argument that the owner does care is irrelevant. The issue is whether TP, during his tenure as an owner, has made enough good decisions that help the team win. The accumulated record for the past generation indicates no.  

A+

[7+6=13]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

That's like saying the only thing I did wrong is shoot the gun and have the bullet hit the person I was arguing with squarely in the head. Your defense then becomes it wasn't my fault that this so-called victim didn't have a head hard enough for the bullet to bounce off of.  I'm not trying to ridicule or be mean-spirited, but your logic eludes me. 

And the argument that the owner does care is irrelevant. The issue is whether TP, during his tenure as an owner, has made enough good decisions that help the team win. The accumulated record for the past generation indicates no.  

You're narrative is do something.  They have, a lot.  You can't comprehend the difference between doing something and having something work.

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Then why did you “X” the “in the first place” comment?

you love GMKA. It ok. Just admit it 

I want him gone.  I want him to do very little of consequence until he's out or gets oversight.

[7+6=13]

3 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Incompetent professionals under contract are routinely fired; sometimes competent ones, to be fair, though that isn't KA. 

Anyway, I suppose you think everything is reasonably answered by Pegula's right to do what he wants with his toys.

 

Now you changed the argument to he should be fired.  You said there's no plausible reason KA wasn't fired.  You don't like it and neither do I.  But if he's under contract, it's reasonable to not want to pay someone not to work for you.  I never once said that's not routinely done.  TP did that multiple times.

[JohnC]

9 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

You're narrative is do something.  They have, a lot.  You can't comprehend the difference between doing something and having something work.

 

I very much do comprehend the difference between doing something and having something work. That's my issue! When you have made decisions for a full generation and nothing has worked during that extended period, then don't you think that it's time to change your approach? 

We're at the point where we are going in never-ending circles. So there is no need to continue on with this futile back and forth. I say this with no disrespect intended but your responses make no sense to me. Your reasoning is so contradictory that it is incomprehensible, at least to me. But that's okay.  I'm sure my responses make little sense to you. We are riding on different buses going to different destinations and our paths will not cross. So be it. 

 

[LGR4GM]

15 hours ago, 7+6=13 said:

There is one reason.  If he is under contract.  

That's not being questioned because it's boring.

Adams is under contract. 

[JP51]

20 hours ago, Thorny said:

Ya the only thing we haven’t done is the two things most accurately tied to making the playoffs. Those are the only things! 

We cut bait too quickly. We need to allow Adams to miss the playoffs double the amount of every current GM, being worse than everyone else for a longer period of time isn’t enough of a sample size 

No, he fired Botterill because he disagreed with Terry about not spending money 

that he’s operating at the bequest of the fans is an utter fabrication. Just another attempt to blame the fans 

framing is too see through. “You know what, we’ve probably honestly only really been bad because Terry feels pressured to please the fans. If he is patient and does it his way, and doesn’t let those angry, impatient fans get in the way, it could work! The only thing we haven’t tried is getting away from the demands of the awful fanbase. The problem with the team, after all.” 

Exactly, everything that is wrong about the team are fans, taxes, weather, etc... never mind that we trade away players like Eichel, Reinhart, Montour let players like Ullmark walk... then hand out massive contracts like candy to underperfoming players like Power Cozens etc... every where you turn with this cesspool of lunacy its almost like they are trying to sabotage the organization... but of course after 14 years of ineptitude and abject bumbling it is of course our fault... not like we havent been calling for a competent POHO for at least 10 of them... the concept of tanking and losing pervades this organization like a skunk stench on a washed dog... yet they let the player they tanked for leave because they would not listen to his doctors and allow him to have the surgery he wanted (and has played with without complication)... and the other player they tanked for go in Reinhardt because they wouldnt pay him... but as of course I said before it was really important to give Power a huge contract because they like how weak he plays... fans fault though... I mean they don't even talk to us and when they do its a scolding or they are whining like small children about how unfairly the world is responding to their abject ineptitude..  Our fault though, I am a bad person... and fan because I don't love being a laughingstock of the entire professional sports world as much as they apparently do...  Our desire to win is clearly getting in the way of them being able to make decisions... and in the end... is there anything... and I mean anything in the sports world more dysfunctional than blaming your fans for your epic lack of competitiveness... 

[Thorny]

 

[Thorny]

Because they aren’t trying to win