RochesterExpat Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 17 hours ago, Buffalonill said: I want to add some background to this because I was curious why it was so high since--on the face--it suggest that >90% of NFL players have CTE. That seems incredibly unlikely. There's selection bias in the sample which creates the illusion it's over 90% when it's realistically unlikely to be close to that number. The 376 players were autopsied specifically to look for signs of CTE. While 376 is by no means a small number of players, it's only five more players than in the NFL Hall of Fame. So the sample size is relatively small. Among athletes under 30 who passed away and their brains were donated to science, the prevalence was 41%. While that's high, we're once again facing massive confirmation bias. It was only athletes who passed away under the age of 30. It was only athletes whose families donated their brain tissue. I realize this may sound callous, but there is a potential economic incentive to donate brain tissue if you suspect CTE as there will be lawsuits over this in the future. Ultimately, this taints the sample. The most comprehensive population study in the US which examined all brain tissue and then later went to confirm athletic participation found 9% of former athletes having "CTE pathology" vs 3.3% for non-athletes exhibiting the same. The highest incidence (15%) was found in football players, particularly those who played after high school. Not to diminish the inherent dangers of CTE, but it's probably worth the above context. It's not the best quote as it's misleading because the data is not representative of the body as a whole. If we accept the incidence rate is 9% for athletes (and almost certainly higher for professionals due to longer careers), that's still millions of people affected above the population baseline of 3.3%. That's a huge societal problem and reducing risk factors needs a focus. Ideally, we find a means of diagnosing CTE that doesn't require a brain autopsy. I think that would be a massively beneficial step forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guava Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 (edited) 20 hours ago, Buffalonill said: Just very sad news We all love fights But you can't deny what's happening. They should ban it completely I'm sorry Fighting isn't why that happened. The micro concussions they suffer far more frequently from the time they are little kids playing are why it happens. Edited March 21 by Big Guava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 7 minutes ago, Big Guava said: Fighting isn't why that happened. The micro concussions they suffer far more frequently from the time they are little kids playing are why it happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guava Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: That's what I am saying to you actually...suggest you do more reading and less judging. The greatest cause of CTE are from the accumulation of subconcussive impacts over time. What do you think caused more subconcussive impacts...100 fights or 20000+ body checks from your head hitting the glass or rattling around in your helmet from the time he was a kid? There is a reason why CTE has a high prevalence in bobsledder too...last time I checked they were not getting in tooany fist fights. Edited March 21 by Big Guava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 7 hours ago, sabrefanday1 said: Mind you I still find it amazing that Tie Domi, who took numerous nasty punches and laughed, is still seemingly "normal" whatever that is... Exactly. Him and Ray sitting down and talking about their fight history for the celebration was a pretty normal conversation. Neither was ever the brightest light but they are functioning just fine like the rest of us. Andrew Peters is fine. John Scott is fine. Actually he's more than fine, he's pretty smart. Go further back if you want. Guys like Rick Dudley are still fully aware in their old age. Don Cherry had a lot of fights in his playing career and while you might have hated his views or thought he was a dinosaur he certainly wasn't a drooling vegetable was he. There is a really really long list of ex NHL tough guys and fighters who are doing very well. One must factor in these guys entire lives and lifestyles if you want an actual meaningful argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Big Guava said: That's what I am saying to you actually...suggest you do more reading and less judging. The greatest cause of CTE are from the accumulation of subconcussive impacts over time. What do you think caused more subconcussive impacts...100 fights or 20000+ body checks from your head hitting the glass or rattling around in your helmet from the time he was a kid? There is a reason why CTE has a high prevalence in bobsledder too...last time I checked they were not getting in tooany fist fights. I have no idea what kind of hockey you're thinking about but that doesn't happen lol.. it's not allowed at that age Are talking young adult or Teenager Edited March 21 by Buffalonill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guava Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 7 hours ago, Buffalonill said: I have no idea what kind of hockey you're thinking about but that doesn't happen lol.. it's not allowed at that age Are talking young adult or Teenager So you think these kids playing pickup hockey in their backyards with their friends aren't checking each other? You never played sports much growing up did you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 22 Author Report Share Posted March 22 55 minutes ago, Big Guava said: So you think these kids playing pickup hockey in their backyards with their friends aren't checking each other? You never played sports much growing up did you? You said 20000+ "body checks " from "your head hitting the glass or rattling" I don't think anyone here experienced this playing as a "kid" here lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guava Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: You said 20000+ "body checks " from "your head hitting the glass or rattling" I don't think anyone here experienced this playing as a "kid" here lol I'm talking from your childhood thru your NHL career. That number might be low for some of them. Edited March 22 by Big Guava Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Studies in this type of field are so difficult to digest. Oh hey, men who made millions of dollars commited less suicide than those that were poor. There are just so many factors. We know CTE is bad, and it exists, professional sports players are going to be at higher risk, it is somewhat part of the job and reason they are paid handsomely. That's not to say we shouldn't try and prevent what we can, we absolutley should. Anyway RIP Chris, I always remember the Caps with you and Peter Bondra always beating the Sabres as a kiddo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 22 Author Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Big Guava said: I'm talking from your childhood thru your NHL career. That number might be low for some of them. Maybe in juniors but that number is Outrageous lol no kid is going to rough up his buddy in Pond hockey Sure its Competitive but not like you're thinking lol Edited March 22 by Buffalonill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guava Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 10 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: Maybe in juniors but that number is Outrageous lol no kid is going to rough up his buddy in Pond hockey Sure its Competitive but not like you're thinking lol So you don't think players who play 10+ years in the NHL and a bunch of years in juniors and high school get checked 20K times? How many times does a player get checked in a single game? Multiply that times the number of games they have played in their high school, junior, tournaments, college, AHL, NHL career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 22 Author Report Share Posted March 22 22 minutes ago, Big Guava said: So you don't think players who play 10+ years in the NHL and a bunch of years in juniors and high school get checked 20K times? How many times does a player get checked in a single game? Multiply that times the number of games they have played in their high school, junior, tournaments, college, AHL, NHL career. First you said a "kid" then to "Pond hockey" now to Professionals So what is it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 Nobody is getting checked 20,000 times throughout their entire hockey career lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 16 hours ago, Big Guava said: Fighting isn't why that happened. The micro concussions they suffer far more frequently from the time they are little kids playing are why it happens. In football here they are starting to look at kids not even heading the ball anymore as a rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 22 Author Report Share Posted March 22 (edited) 1 hour ago, Huckleberry said: In football here they are starting to look at kids not even heading the ball anymore as a rule. This is different though and everyone would agree football at a young age is very dangerous Edited March 22 by Buffalonill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 21 hours ago, That Aud Smell said: Respectfully - it matters a lot. "A young woman dies from cancer. Does it really matter the underlying issues that led to her incurable cancer?" There are medical issues at play here, albeit tricky ones because they involve illness that is behavioral in nature. It matters very much to know and understand if there are common underlying issues that led to this former enforcer's death. That knowledge and understanding may help prevent other deaths from similar causes. I understand what you are saying. And I agree that we do need to know if his hockey style played a role. My point was addressing the debate in this thread between the two points that drugs and lifestyle played a bigger role than a history of head trauma and vise versa. In that sense it does not matter to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 47 minutes ago, Buffalonill said: This is different though and everyone would agree football at a young age is very dangerous He means the other kind of football Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalonill Posted March 22 Author Report Share Posted March 22 Just now, #freejame said: He means the other kind of football Welp I could see it Regardless of the age and Sure some will make fun of it Not understanding the bigger picture Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 2 hours ago, Buffalonill said: Welp I could see it Regardless of the age and Sure some will make fun of it Not understanding the bigger picture Its ok, but I remember having a concussion as a 13 yr old from a ball landing on my head. Finished the game but after the game I started feeling bad. My stepdad immediately noticed and told me to go lie on my bed with the room dark. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kruppstahl Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 On a recent podcast of "After the Whistle" JR said he used to work out with Simon, and that he was the "greatest guy ever" or something like that. Sorry to hear this happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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