Casey Mittelstadt traded for Bowen Byram

[Thorny]

15 minutes ago, Derrico said:

Just as much risk we overpay Mitts and he reverts to who he has been most of his career.  

That’s why I prefer to operate based on achieving a goal next season. An eye to results. It creates a scenario where we need not fear either. We didn’t need to commit long term this summer to Casey 

7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Guy this affects the most off the hop is Peyton Krebs, who should be the 3C for the remainder of the year, and with the likely moves of Girgs and Okposo moves from 10-11 on the depth chart to more like a 7-8 slot.

Looks like that really was a test drive they gave him a week or so back.

The tragedy would be pencilling Krebs into 3C next year based on his finish and not the season as a whole 

[Getpucksdeep]

16 minutes ago, Derrico said:

This is one of my biggest concerns.  He and Dahlin were bff.

 

13 minutes ago, Weave said:

Man, Casey gonna go from a best buds locker room to Nathan Mackinnon running the show and putting ***** straight.

But he’ll win.  Lucky bastard.

This is why I like the trade.

[Night Train]

Team has already seen several  "revert back" after getting paid recently. Not Mitts fault but can't keep overpaying. 

[Crusader1969]

59 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 

That's a joke of a prospect ranking!   There is no way they are 17th.  The leafs ahead of the Sabres ??  They have 1 prospect that I know of 

 

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Weave said:

It seems to Me that we can’t take this trade in a vacuum.  There has to be alot more to the plan.

Of course. My question is, does the deal in KA’s mind help facilitate a better team next season? Or does it help facilitate a better team down the line 

I only care about the former. Literally 

1 minute ago, Crusader1969 said:

That's a joke of a prospect ranking!   There is no way they are 17th.  The leafs ahead of the Sabres ??  They have 1 prospect that I know of 

 

Don’t schouch the messenger 

[mjd1001]

31 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Question: As mentioned, I can definitely see the talent with Byram. From a team building standpoint I find it confusing. But, for someone/those more confident than me in this trade ending up beneficial: Do you see the trade potentially improving the team as soon as next season? Would you argue that is likely? Or is that more best case scenario, with your likely estimation being we see net improvement further down the line? 

What say you? I’m open to the idea Byram could end up the better player but it literally only matters, for me, if it can happen for next season 

I can't make a great case for things, but, as usual, it 'depends' on what else happens from now until next season.

-Is Tage playing through a wrist, and maybe foot injury and will return to his form on the past 2 seasons (40 goal, top line center).  Has Cozens 'gotten religion' in terms of play in his own end (which he SEEMS to have, at least in the last month), making him your legit 2 way center?

-Maybe the Sabres, through is practice and play, see a "Mitts like" jump in Krebs play from this year to next, and you have him as your 3c.  I need to see a lot more from him, I haven't liked Krebs since he got here as anything more than an 'average-at-best' player, but they might be seeing something I haven't yet.

-What other trades might be made, now or in the offseason.

-What other players might sign here in the offseason.

I can't give names, but suppose the Sabres find/trade for a Veteran, 2-way Center that gives you 15 goals and 25-30 assists on the 3rd line...while Tage and Cozens pick their games back up.

A lot of "ifs" in there, but that is the case for the potential of it helping out.   What I remmeber of Byram is 2 years ago he looked great, and I mean GREAT in the Avs cup run.  I didn't know much about him going into the playoffs but when I saw them play I was thinking "how did they end up with ANOTHER guy this good on the blueline"  Of course, he has the injury risk.  But I truly believe the potential is there for him to be a better player long term than Mitts, now its just up to the organization to fill in the gaps in the roster.

Edited March 6 by mjd1001

[JoeSchmoe]

Byram is a below 50% expected goal player THE COLORADO AVALANCHE. Clifton was a below 50% on THE BOSTON BRUINS.

Why are we paying for stats gurus in our front office when our GM's M.O. is to take other teams' table scraps?!?!

Edited March 6 by JoeSchmoe

[Crusader1969]

Just now, Crusader1969 said:

That's a joke of a prospect ranking!   There is no way they are 17th.  The leafs ahead of the Sabres ??  They have 1 prospect that I know of 

 

I should have said "who had them ranked as avg besides scouching?"  

 

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

Of course. My question is, does the deal in KA’s mind help facilitate a better team next season? Or does it help facilitate a better team down the line 

I only care about the former. Literally 

Don’t schouch the messenger 

I actually used to listen to his podcast weekly (before he went on hiatus) and thought he was pretty good

But his prospect ranking is wrong 

[Weave]

Just now, Thorny said:

Of course. My question is, does the deal in KA’s mind help facilitate a better team next season? Or does it help facilitate a better team down the line 

I only care about the former. Literally 

I can’t get to, Casey was traded solely to avoid a payday.  At least not yet, lol.

Cash spent at center may certainly be a factor, but there has to be a plan that involves boosting the team overall.  At least, I think there has to be.

I am holding out hope that this is move 1 of 3 or 4 moves through draft day that that retools the team.  

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

I can't make a great case for things, but, as usual, it 'depends' on what else happens from now until next season.

-Is Tage playing through a wrist, and maybe foot injury and will return to his form on the past 2 seasons (40 goal, top line center).  Has Cozens 'gotten religion' in terms of play in his own end (which he SEEMS to have, at least in the last month), making him your legit 2 way center?

-What other trades might be made, now or in the offseason.

-What other players might sign here in the offseason.

I can't give names, but suppose the Sabres find/trade for a Veteran, 2-way Center that gives you 15 goals and 25-30 assists on the 3rd line...while Tage and Cozens pick their games back up.

A lot of "ifs" in there, but that is the case for the potential of it helping out.   What I remmeber of Byram is 2 years ago he looked great, and I mean GREAT in the Avs cup run.  I didn't know much about him going into the playoffs but when I saw them play I was thinking "how did they end up with ANOTHER guy this good on the blueline"  Of course, he has the injury risk.  But I truly believe the potential is there for him to be a better player long term than Mitts, now its just up to the organization to fill in the gaps in the roster.

We can simply wait and judge based on the results, that part is easy enough

my question is a different one: does KA, in his heart of hearts, in your estimation, think he’s making the team better next season, through this move, and it’s corresponding?

I know you can’t know the answer but what do you think. Do you think KA is making the deal to facilitate an improved team next season? Or long term? 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, JoeSchmoe said:

Why are we paying for stats gurus in our front office when our GM's M.O. is to take other teams' table scraps?!?!

Because our GM is incompetent.  

The biggest tragedy of this deal is Krebs, who is not good, is now our 3rd line center and will be next year.

 

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, Weave said:

I can’t get to, Casey was traded solely to avoid a payday.  At least not yet, lol.

Cash spent at center may certainly be a factor, but there has to be a plan that involves boosting the team overall.  At least, I think there has to be.

I am holding out hope that this is move 1 of 3 or 4 moves through draft day that that retools the team.  

I’m not asking you to. I’m not asking you to be pessimistic.

There’s an arguable position wherein one says, well, this makes our team likely a bit worse next season, but likely better long term. I hate it, but it’s there. It doesn’t need to be “to avoid a payday”. This is a good faith discussion  

 

Edited March 6 by Thorny

[JoeSchmoe]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Because our GM is incompetent.  

The biggest tragedy of this deal is Krebs, who is not good, is now our 3rd line center and will be next year.

 

Agreed. And none of our countless tiny forward prospects are looking anywhere near ready for next year. Kulich has dropped back greatly. Savoie is too small to be NHL ready. The other guys are at least 2 years away.

[msw2112]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We can simply wait and judge based on the results, that part is easy enough

my question is a different one: does KA, in his heart of hearts, in your estimation, think he’s making the team better next season, through this move, and it’s corresponding?

I know you can’t know the answer but what do you think. Do you think KA is making the deal to facilitate an improved team next season? Or long term? 

I think he's looking more long-term.  There are lots of young, talented forwards in the pipeline.  There isn't room on the roster for all of them and you can't pay them all.  Thus, long-term, you add a top-flight defenseman and open up a spot for a talented young forward in the pipeline.  I just don't think any forwards in the pipeline are ready to make a major contribution this season or next.  I hope I'm wrong.

Also, I believe they are looking at the long-term salary cap implications of signing Mittlestadt to a new contract at his present value and how that might hamstring the team in the future (as I stated above, you can't pay them all).

Note that my comments here are just my assessment of what I believe KA is thinking.  I'm not a fan of the trade.

Edited March 6 by msw2112

[mjd1001]

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

We can simply wait and judge based on the results, that part is easy enough

my question is a different one: does KA, in his heart of hearts, in your estimation, think he’s making the team better next season, through this move, and it’s corresponding?

I know you can’t know the answer but what do you think. Do you think KA is making the deal to facilitate an improved team next season? Or long term? 

Personally I think he beleives it for both next year and the future.  Next year, it is going to have to be him being confident he can do more than he has in any other offseason.  Maybe its just me trying to be optimistic, but I think next year's success depends more on Tage getting back to his form of the previous 2 years and Cozens being who he has been the last 2 months and not the first 3 months.  Ultimately, THAT may (or may not) be what he is counting on the most.

[Thorny]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

The tragedy would be pencilling Krebs into 3C next year based on his finish and not the season as a whole 

 

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

The biggest tragedy of this deal is Krebs, who is not good, is now our 3rd line center and will be next year.

 

Purple elephant 

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, JoeSchmoe said:

Agreed. And none of our countless tiny forward prospects are looking anywhere near ready for next year. Kulich has dropped back greatly. Savoie is too small to be NHL ready. The other guys are at least 2 years away.

Here are the Sabres top 9 for 2024/25 after this trade

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Benson Krebs Greenway

Is that a play caliber forward group?  I guess it could be if Krebs, JPP, Quinn, and Benson are all better next year and TNT Cozens rebound from their terrible 23/24 seasons.

1 minute ago, Thorny said:

 

Purple elephant 

Apparently great minds think alike.

[Thorny]

1 minute ago, msw2112 said:

I think he's looking more long-term.  There are lots of young, talented forwards in the pipeline.  There isn't room on the roster for all of them and you can't pay them all.  Thus, long-term, you add a top-flight defenseman and open up a spot for a talented young forward in the pipeline.  I just don't think any forwards in the pipeline are ready to make a major contribution this season or next.  I hope I'm wrong.

Fair. If true, if KA would candidly tell you the trade likely represents a slight deficit next year but a better prognostication long term, in that scenario I abjectly hate the trade 

[msw2112]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here are the Sabres top 9 for 2024/25 after this trade

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Benson Krebs Greenway

Is that a play caliber forward group?  I guess it could be if Krebs, JPP, Quinn, and Benson are all better next year and TNT Cozens rebound from their terrible 23/24 seasons.

Do Kulich, Rosen, or Rousek fight their way into this mix?  I think that Östlund is too far off.  Anyone else in the mix in Roch that I'm not considering?

[JoeSchmoe]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here are the Sabres top 9 for 2024/25 after this trade

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Benson Krebs Greenway

Is that a play caliber forward group?  I guess it could be if Krebs, JPP, Quinn, and Benson are all better next year and TNT Cozens rebound from their terrible 23/24 seasons.

Apparently great minds think alike.

We are worse next year. Byram was a net negative on a very good team. Unless he improves greatly, he's going to suck on the Sabres. But because he's the shiny new toy, we're going to play the crap out of him. Meanwhile, we're missing Casey's production.

[Weave]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I’m not asking you to. I’m not asking you to be pessimistic.

There’s an arguable position wherein one says, well, this makes our team likely a bit worse next season, but likely better long term. I hate it, but it’s there. It doesn’t need to be “to avoid a payday”. This is a good faith discussion  

 

Ahhhhh…..

I have no idea, lol.  The potential is there for it to be either.  Need to see what else comes.

[mjd1001]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Here are the Sabres top 9 for 2024/25 after this trade

Skinner TNT Tuch

JJP Cozens Quinn

Benson Krebs Greenway

Is that a play caliber forward group?  I guess it could be if Krebs, JPP, Quinn, and Benson are all better next year and TNT Cozens rebound from their terrible 23/24 seasons.

Apparently great minds think alike.

Can those guys stay healthy for the most part?  Can you get 170 goals out of those 2 lines? (100 from the first line, 70 from the 2nd line?)   If so, AND Bryam progresses and is as good as he has showed flashed on the Blue line, it might be a playoff caliber 'roster' with that top 2 lines and your top 2 D-pairings.  I hope and I'm willing to see how it goes.

[Thorny]

5 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Personally I think he beleives it for both next year and the future.  Next year, it is going to have to be him being confident he can do more than he has in any other offseason.  Maybe its just me trying to be optimistic, but I think next year's success depends more on Tage getting back to his form of the previous 2 years and Cozens being who he has been the last 2 months and not the first 3 months.  Ultimately, THAT may (or may not) be what he is counting on the most.

Thanks. If KA believes the deal helps us next season, he absolutely needs to pull the trigger 

1 minute ago, mjd1001 said:

Can those guys stay healthy for the most part?  Can you get 170 goals out of those 2 lines? (100 from the first line, 70 from the 2nd line?)   If so, AND Bryam progresses and is as good as he has showed flashed on the Blue line, it might be a playoff caliber 'roster' with that top 2 lines and your top 2 D-pairings.  I hope and I'm willing to see how it goes.

The roster will need to be capable of making the playoffs sans health if we’ve built a worthy roster at all 

[mjd1001]

Just now, Thorny said:

Thanks. If KA believes the deal helps us next season, he absolutely needs to pull the trigger 

Most/many of us wanted change. As fans we wanted a 'swing for the fences' type move.  You aren't getting Cale Makar for Krebs and a pick and a prospect. To get a young guy with potential, you have to give up something.  For now, I am 'entertained'.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Most/many of us wanted change. As fans we wanted a 'swing for the fences' type move.  You aren't getting Cale Makar for Krebs and a pick and a prospect. To get a young guy with potential, you have to give up something.  For now, I am 'entertained'.

Right, but you are getting into trouble here now (with me lol) because you yourself argued otherwise. I read all your posts. You are the “we don’t need surgery” guy we just needs tweaks. So how can I put faith in your well-laid out arguments if they, nonetheless, appear to be positions you’ve taken purely to take them, but not in line with your original stance? 

Edited March 6 by Thorny