beerme1 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Sean Averys available again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dEnnis the Menace Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I hear you. I agree you need offensive defensemen and skill forwards. It is a balance though that the Sabres have seemingly always ignored under Regier/Ruff. That's why I really looked into the competition and how they do it. NY may even be hit heavy, but that is a product of team hustle. Guys like Chara, Del Zotto, Pronger, Letang.......you can have skill and still bring the heat. Myers needs to figure that out if he has it in him, and Leopold and Ehrhoff are big enough men that there should be little excuse for the pitifully low numbers. I don't remember if it was you or DeLuca, or maybe even Blue, but one of you asked me to prove that Ruff's system over his tenure had changed. Someone did that for me. I just found that over on DbtB, and I think it's a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FolignosJock Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I know.....it takes time to research certain aspects in detail enough to put out there. Any long time poster knows my view pretty well, so that gets tiresome, I agree. I think there is also the selfless, gritty aspect to blocking them. A shot block in itself isn't important. But when your team backs up, doesn't go into corners, doesn't hit.....you can assume lack of shot blocking is either a sign of softness, or of a failed system when comparing it to the teams that are at the top of the league. On 24/7 the other day, I forget which coach said it but he was railing his team for not getting dirty and blocking shots. "I know....it hurts". But it's an attitude. Watching McNabb sell-out to block shots gives me hope. I wont argue that at all, when it is a forward. If you are a defenseman you should be tying up your man and clearing out the front of the net. Not blocking shots. When defenseman block shots more often than not it redirects and makes a tougher save for the goalie or goes in. Or it falls onto the stick of the guy the defenseman was supposed to be wrapping up. It drives me NUTS and I have never heard a coach preach for the defenseman to try blocking shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted December 30, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I wont argue that at all, when it is a forward. If you are a defenseman you should be tying up your man and clearing out the front of the net. Not blocking shots. When defenseman block shots more often than not it redirects and makes a tougher save for the goalie or goes in. Or it falls onto the stick of the guy the defenseman was supposed to be wrapping up. It drives me NUTS and I have never heard a coach preach for the defenseman to try blocking shots. I don't need guys flopping all over. I know what you are saying, and that tends to happen when they half-Tebow it. McNabb sold himself out like you would in preventing the pass on a 2 on 1 and was the first to do so like that since McKee of Zhitnik. Blocked shots and the Corsi Number made me cringe though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waldo Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 While I realise there's more to defense than throwing checks night in and night out - That's just plain embarassing! I have to wonder how long it'll be before Regehr ends up in Lindy's doghouse. He is the best defenseman on the team and a real pro. He knows what needs to be done and when to do it so my guess is he has already made it into the doghouse. The good news is that after four years Vanek finally has some company in the doghouse . Good thing that they both speak german. I expect to see Regehr centering the Vanek line tonight., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwksndmonster Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 I've tried to up my game when it comes to posting the last few days. People don't like hearing downer stuff, and want to dismiss certain people as being "negative". I'm bringing out the data on team success and their makeup and grit, successful coaches of our best competitors who were available and their detailed team turnarounds, the pathetic impact of the injured Sabres when they ARE in the lineup, and maybe more to come. I'm glad others are looking deeper into what actually goes into making up this team, and the lackluster results we constantly see. If we all try and lift the car off the potential corpse together, maybe we can save it in time. I think the problem that I have with Deluca's (and to a lesser extent your) posts is that every single one of them has the same point that we've heard a million times before. Even if I agree with the post, I've gotten sick of reading it over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
That Aud Smell Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 It makes sense to do this. holy smokes - great post. did i read right -- that's post #6? more, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted December 30, 2011 Report Share Posted December 30, 2011 Blocked shots are my biggest pet peeve when describing a defenseman. They pay the goalie to block shots. I remember a few goals in that carolina series that went directly off our defensemen and in. It is a lot different when a forward blocks a shot from the point thought IMO. I guess I am with Darcy here. Blocking a shot and have the puck accidentally go off a player are two completely different things. I knew we were near the bottom of the league in hits, but I wasn't sure about blocked shots. However, after doing some digging, you are absolutely right. I couldn't find team stats on blocked shots but I found individual stats on blocked shots. I looked at the top 30 shot blockers every year from the lockout to the present and only the year after the lockout did we have a premere shot blocker. 05/06 - McKee 1st in league by a lot; Lydman 9th overall 06/07 - Lydman 16th in league; Kalinin 27th 07/08 - Lydman 16th 08/09 - Lydman 11th 09/10 - Zero players in top 30 10/11 - Zero players in top 30 11/12 - Half way through the season and we have zero players in top 30 Is it a coincidence that we have been a poor team since 07/08 and during that span have not had a guy/multiple guys willing to sacrifice the body? Maybe, maybe not. NHL.com has team totals for blocked shots and hits under the Real-Time tab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 I have posted the running total in various threads, but it now deserves one of it's own for safekeeping. Regehr: 35 Games 91 Hits Ehrhoff, Sekera, Myers, Leopold, Gragnani: 154 Games 89 Hits Regehr: 37 Games 96 Hits Ehrhoff, Sekera, Myers, Leopold, Gragnani 159 Games 90 Hits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Regehr: 37 Games 96 Hits Ehrhoff, Sekera, Myers, Leopold, Gragnani 159 Games 90 Hits You shouldn't as hard on Myers, as he's actually averaging 3.499 hits per 60 min TOI, which is well above the other four: Sekera (1.84), Ehrhoff (1.649), Leopold (1.117), and Gragnani (0.737). The leaders are Weber (8.813), Regehr (8.198), and McNabb (7.017). Well, actually, Brennan leads the team at 9.669 per 60 min TOI, but he's only played 55:51 over 5 games, so the sample is a little small. If you want some other interesting numbers, we can look at giveaways per 60 min TOI: Weber (2.938), Gragnani (2.841), Ehrhoff (2.199), Myers (1.895), Leopold (1.595), Regehr (1.196), McNabb (1.132), and Sekera (1.053). Another interesting note is that McNabb leads the team in takeaways per 60 min TOI with 2.716. Sekera is 2nd with 1.316 and Myers is 3rd with 1.166. Everyone else is well below 1. So, McNabb is 3rd highest in hits/60, 2nd lowest in giveaways/60, and highest in takeaways/60. That doesn't take into account strength of opposition, and his sample is the smallest, but there's still a lot to like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Else? Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 You shouldn't as hard on Myers, as he's actually averaging 3.499 hits per 60 min TOI, which is well above the other four: Sekera (1.84), Ehrhoff (1.649), Leopold (1.117), and Gragnani (0.737). The leaders are Weber (8.813), Regehr (8.198), and McNabb (7.017). Well, actually, Brennan leads the team at 9.669 per 60 min TOI, but he's only played 55:51 over 5 games, so the sample is a little small. If you want some other interesting numbers, we can look at giveaways per 60 min TOI: Weber (2.938), Gragnani (2.841), Ehrhoff (2.199), Myers (1.895), Leopold (1.595), Regehr (1.196), McNabb (1.132), and Sekera (1.053). Another interesting note is that McNabb leads the team in takeaways per 60 min TOI with 2.716. Sekera is 2nd with 1.316 and Myers is 3rd with 1.166. Everyone else is well below 1. So, McNabb is 3rd highest in hits/60, 2nd lowest in giveaways/60, and highest in takeaways/60. That doesn't take into account strength of opposition, and his sample is the smallest, but there's still a lot to like. Not sure where you got your stats at, I would love to know the giveaway stat on Leino. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereal Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Not sure where you got your stats at, I would love to know the giveaway stat on Leino. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20122BUFSASALL&sort=giveaways&viewName=rtssPlayerStats Leino: 8 giveaways in 29 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted January 3, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 You shouldn't as hard on Myers, as he's actually averaging 3.499 hits per 60 min TOI, which is well above the other four: Sekera (1.84), Ehrhoff (1.649), Leopold (1.117), and Gragnani (0.737). The leaders are Weber (8.813), Regehr (8.198), and McNabb (7.017). Well, actually, Brennan leads the team at 9.669 per 60 min TOI, but he's only played 55:51 over 5 games, so the sample is a little small. If you want some other interesting numbers, we can look at giveaways per 60 min TOI: Weber (2.938), Gragnani (2.841), Ehrhoff (2.199), Myers (1.895), Leopold (1.595), Regehr (1.196), McNabb (1.132), and Sekera (1.053). Another interesting note is that McNabb leads the team in takeaways per 60 min TOI with 2.716. Sekera is 2nd with 1.316 and Myers is 3rd with 1.166. Everyone else is well below 1. So, McNabb is 3rd highest in hits/60, 2nd lowest in giveaways/60, and highest in takeaways/60. That doesn't take into account strength of opposition, and his sample is the smallest, but there's still a lot to like. McNabb is really impressive stuff. Nice job on your numbers. Weber has been my biggest disappointment but he was jerked around early in the year so i am hoping he just needs to settle. Sekera has been much better this year and I don't want to kill him for his pansy play and cough ups like last year. A lot probably has to do with him not focusing so much on rushing the puck up all the time. Myers isn't attrocious in his physical game, it just is nowhere near the Pronger/Chara/Letang groove, or on a more reasonable note, Del Zotto. I just get a kick out of the "race". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who Else? Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 http://www.nhl.com/i...rtssPlayerStats Leino: 8 giveaways in 29 games. Thank you. Does anyone else not believe that? Ahhh what the hell he's in a better place now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 or on a more reasonable note, Del Zotto. Del Zotto's a bit higher on hits/60 at 5.324, though Myers does have a slight edge in blocked shots/60. Not sure where you got your stats at, I would love to know the giveaway stat on Leino. Leino has the 13th lowest giveaways/60 amongst forwards with 1.18. Only Pominville (0.95), Ellis (0.87), and Kaleta (0.76) were lower. The highest were Vanek (3.19), Roy (2.74), Ennis (2.50), Hecht (2.36), and Stafford (2.35). Hits/60 amongst forwards wasn't too surprising: Kaleta (13.13), Gaustad (9.98), McCormick (9.81), Kassian (6.68), Gerbe (6.27), Stafford (5.05) ... ok, that was a little surprising ... Ellis (4.80), Boyes (3.26), Ennis (2.81), Hecht (2.69), Adam (2.31), Pominville (1.89), Vanek (1.82), Leino (1.77), and Roy (1.65). Pominville and Roy do block shots on a level closer to the 4th-liners (2.5 - 3.5), though, than the other top six forwards (1.2 - 1.8). Of course, that's largely from the PK, I'm sure, which does point out another weakness of my quick numbers here, as they do not account for PP/ES/PK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 When did MAG accumulate 7 hits this season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RazielSabre Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thank you. Does anyone else not believe that? Ahhh what the hell he's in a better place now. I can believe that, he was great with the puck. Just useless when trying to do anything with it. When did MAG accumulate 7 hits this season? They got 'giveaways per game' and 'hits' confused... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samson's Flow Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Regehr: 37 Games 96 Hits Ehrhoff, Sekera, Myers, Leopold, Gragnani 159 Games 90 Hits I find it funny (and sad) that the gap is growing and not shrinking. Regher is the only player that we brought in that I feel has played above expectations. He has been our best defenseman by far. Ehrhoff has met my expectations and Leino is not playing center so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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