Lindy vs Bylsma - Discussion

[ntjacks79]

All four that are teams left have had a coaching change within the last two seasons. Every team that has won a Stanley Cup since Lindy took office has had a coaching change since Lindy took office. All reasoning aside, I'm just ready for a change. It's time. I don't want to end up as bored with the Sabres as I am with the Bills and right now it's getting close.

I definitely understand this argument, and I could support it if Quinn/Regier said it just like this. But this is a lot different than calling the premise of the discussion "simplistic".

[Eleven]

Every team that has won a Stanley Cup since Lindy took office has had a coaching change since Lindy took office.

 

So has every team that has NOT won one. Every team in the league has changed coaches at least once since Lindy came here. Not sure what that means for this debate, though.

[Kristian]

So has every team that has NOT won one. Every team in the league has changed coaches at least once since Lindy came here. Not sure what that means for this debate, though.

 

Win or lose, at least every team besides the Sabres tried to change something when they weren't happy with the results.

 

For some it paid off, for others it didn't, but the Sabres didn't even try.

 

Why? Well, probably because they're happy with the results, Darcy's crocodile tears aside.

 

Apparently losing doesn't hurt quite as bad after all.

[SwampD]

So has every team that has NOT won one. Every team in the league has changed coaches at least once since Lindy came here. Not sure what that means for this debate, though.

 

 

Win or lose, at least every team besides the Sabres tried to change something when they weren't happy with the results.

 

For some it paid off, for others it didn't, but the Sabres didn't even try.

 

Why? Well, probably because they're happy with the results, Darcy's crocodile tears aside.

 

Apparently losing doesn't hurt quite as bad after all.

EXACTLY! This is the heart of the matter and that's what it means, 11. I don't care if they lose as long as it looks like they are trying to win. This goes for everyone, the players, the coach, the GM and the owner.

[bob_sauve28]

Not sure but I believe that Bylsma just won a cup with Pittsburgh last year. If LR won Buffalo a cup he would have a statue erected out front of HSBC and there would be hundreds of children growning up in Buffalo with the first name of Lindy.

 

:lol: You smashed that one out of the park!

 

My two cents:

 

Montreal is a pretty good team with great goaltending. They also have one hot goal scorer right now, too!

 

And Pittsburg really doesn't have any great wingers to work with their centers. And goaltending was not strong.

[PASabreFan]

So has every team that has NOT won one. Every team in the league has changed coaches at least once since Lindy came here. Not sure what that means for this debate, though.

 

What frightens you so much about life after Lindy? I'm really curious about this.

[Eleven]

What frightens you so much about life after Lindy? I'm really curious about this.

 

Nothing. Tell me who is available that would do a better job with the tools Lindy has been given, is all. I don't think that person exists, so I don't want Lindy fired.

 

EDIT: Let me put it another way: there's this other pro team in the suburbs nearby that keeps going through coaches while failing to upgrade the talent. Some of those coaches (Phillips) have been good, some (Jauron) have been bad. But change for change's sake doesn't work when the talent remains mediocre.

 

Wade Phillips was able to take relatively average teams in Buffalo and Dallas to the playoffs. I'll bet there are a few Bills fans that wish Buffalo still had him.

[SwampD]

Nothing. Tell me who is available that would do a better job with the tools Lindy has been given, is all. I don't think that person exists, so I don't want Lindy fired.

That is an unanswerable question, just like,"Who is available that would do a worse job with the tools Lindy has been given." Or, "If Lindy was coaching Carolina and Laviolette the Sabres who would have won?" It's impossible to tell but after 13 years I'm willing to take a chance.

 

And I'll ask it again, what frightens you (or anyone else) so much about life after Lindy? I'm really curious about this, as well.

[Eleven]

That is an unanswerable question, just like,"Who is available that would do a worse job with the tools Lindy has been given." Or, "If Lindy was coaching Carolina and Laviolette the Sabres who would have won?" It's impossible to tell but after 13 years I'm willing to take a chance.

 

And I'll ask it again, what frightens you (or anyone else) so much about life after Lindy? I'm really curious about this, as well.

 

Swamp, I'll have to just answer the same question the same way. You've got a good coach here, and I don't believe in change for change's sake. I think that's insane. If there's an available coach who you think would do a better job, name him. Otherwise, the chance of a revolving door, with worse results, looms large.

[SwampD]

Swamp, I'll have to just answer the same question the same way. You've got a good coach here, and I don't believe in change for change's sake. I think that's insane. If there's an available coach who you think would do a better job, name him. Otherwise, the chance of a revolving door, with worse results, looms large.

Let's just say for the sake of argument that Lindy's tenure here has been only slighty above average, say, six seasons. Which is still pretty long for a coach in the NHL. In those six season's, only making the playoff 50 percent of the time, in a league where more than fifty percent of the teams make it, would be unacceptable anywhere else.

 

I don't want to hear the phrase,"with what he's been given" ever again. In an organization (of which Lindy is a part) that preaches "developing players in the system" it does not apply. The phrase should be "with what Lindy's given us."

[Eleven]

Let's just say for the sake of argument that Lindy's tenure here has been only slighty above average, say, six seasons. Which is still pretty long for a coach in the NHL. In those six season's, only making the playoff 50 percent of the time, in a league where more than fifty percent of the teams make it, would be unacceptable anywhere else.

 

I don't want to hear the phrase,"with what he's been given" ever again. In an organization (of which Lindy is a part) that preaches "developing players in the system" it does not apply. The phrase should be "with what Lindy's given us."

 

So, then, you must be cool with the fact that after a couple of rebuilding years, he developed a bunch of near-rookies, castoffs, and slackers, with a few stars, into a division winner, right?

 

Seriously, give me an alternative to consider. If Lindy were a ###### coach, I'd be with you: replace him with anything, who cares, it can't get worse, etc. (That's how I feel about Drew Stafford, for example.) But he's not, so before I replace him, I want to know that what's coming in his place has the potential to be better (which is how I feel about a guy like Pominville).

 

EDIT: the ###### begins with s and ends with itty. Forgot about the filter.

[PASabreFan]

So, then, you must be cool with the fact that after a couple of rebuilding years, he developed a bunch of near-rookies, castoffs, and slackers, with a few stars, into a division winner, right?

 

Seriously, give me an alternative to consider. If Lindy were a ###### coach, I'd be with you: replace him with anything, who cares, it can't get worse, etc. (That's how I feel about Drew Stafford, for example.) But he's not, so before I replace him, I want to know that what's coming in his place has the potential to be better (which is how I feel about a guy like Pominville).

 

EDIT: the ###### begins with s and ends with itty. Forgot about the filter.

 

You're really hung up on winning that division, aren't you.

 

Good coaches get fired, all the time. And Lindy is a good coach, even very good. But, my goodness, the idea that there's no one better in the hockey universe is a bit much.

[SwampD]

So, then, you must be cool with the fact that after a couple of rebuilding years, he developed a bunch of near-rookies, castoffs, and slackers, with a few stars, into a division winner, right?

 

Seriously, give me an alternative to consider. If Lindy were a ###### coach, I'd be with you: replace him with anything, who cares, it can't get worse, etc. (That's how I feel about Drew Stafford, for example.) But he's not, so before I replace him, I want to know that what's coming in his place has the potential to be better (which is how I feel about a guy like Pominville).

 

EDIT: the ###### begins with s and ends with itty. Forgot about the filter.

If I didn't care about the President's trophy, I certainly don't care about the division title. Does that really give you comfort?.. That we won the division?.. Really? I want a cup. If Philly wins the Cup after just squeaking into the playoffs is it going to be any less sweet?

 

Lindy's a good coach. There are lots of good coaches. Unless we get rid of more than half the team (which is not going to happen), it has been proven that Lindy cannot motivate these guys to play any better than they are. And I personally believe that a lot of the problem is the system that he is forcing them to play.

 

Also, why are injuries always a problem by the end of the season. I have my theories, but if you think it's just bad luck, then get rid of Ruff and change that luck.

[TheChimp]

Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gill, Markov, Plekanec, Georges, Bergeron, Subban, and Halak and Price in net....yeah, the Canadiens really suck. :blink:

 

Anyone here who doesn't see the Habs winning the Division at least the next two-three seasons is in fantasyland.

[Eleven]

You're really hung up on winning that division, aren't you.

 

Good coaches get fired, all the time. And Lindy is a good coach, even very good. But, my goodness, the idea that there's no one better in the hockey universe is a bit much.

 

So name the next one already. I've asked three times in this thread.

[SwampD]

So name the next one already. I've asked three times in this thread.

I don't have a name and it's not my job to have one. The point is that they are not even looking.

 

This whole attitude towards the coach (Don't try an unknown because he could be worse) just shows me that we get the exact team we deserve. You are saying that you would rather be mediocre because it's a sure thing, than have a chance to be great. In fact, it's exactly like the team plays. Don't play to win, play to not lose.

[Eleven]

I don't have a name and it's not my job to have one. The point is that they are not even looking.

 

This whole attitude towards the coach (Don't try an unknown because he could be worse) just shows me that we get the exact team we deserve. You are saying that you would rather be mediocre because it's a sure thing, than have a chance to be great. In fact, it's exactly like the team plays. Don't play to win, play to not lose.

 

There have been chances to be great. Four of them in thirteen years. Rebuilds in between (and the last two years).

 

Seriously, I don't mind if the team wants to go in another direction, but it had better be with a proven winner. I don't think that guy is out there right now, and I would not be happy to watch the Sabres jettison Ruff just to give some newbie--or worse, some retread--a shot.

[SwampD]

There have been chances to be great. Four of them in thirteen years. Rebuilds in between (and the last two years).

 

Seriously, I don't mind if the team wants to go in another direction, but it had better be with a proven winner. I don't think that guy is out there right now, and I would not be happy to watch the Sabres jettison Ruff just to give some newbie--or worse, some retread--a shot.

Wouldn't a proven winner also be one of those retreads. It's what some were saying about Laviolette earlier in the season. He was available and he could have fallen into either category.

 

Also, I think you have to count this year, so it's a three year rebuild,.. so far.

 

 

Now, if we could just get those guys to mature[/sarc]. As long as Lindy is bigger than the team they never will.

[Eleven]

Wouldn't a proven winner also be one of those retreads. It's what some were saying about Laviolette earlier in the season. He was available and he could have fallen into either category.

 

Also, I think you have to count this year, so it's a three year rebuild,.. so far.

 

 

Now, if we could just get those guys to mature[/sarc]. As long as Lindy is bigger than the team they never will.

 

I don't count this year. They won the division and made the playoffs. So this is the beginning of the third era of "this team has a chance to be great."

 

By the way, I thought of one: Scotty Bowman. Sure, I'm still pissed at him for breaking up the Connection, but if you wanted to replace Lindy with him, I'd be ok with that.

[SwampD]

I don't count this year. They won the division and made the playoffs. So this is the beginning of the third era of "this team has a chance to be great."

By the way, I thought of one: Scotty Bowman. Sure, I'm still pissed at him for breaking up the Connection, but if you wanted to replace Lindy with him, I'd be ok with that.

You made my point for me. If those are the standards that you have set, then they are unrealistic. I also believe that they are unnecessary.

[Eleven]

I don't have a name and it's not my job to have one.

 

 

You made my point for me. If those are the standards that you have set, then they are unrealistic. I also believe that they are unnecessary.

 

Who made whose point for whom?

[SwampD]

Who made whose point for whom?

You for me. You are so afraid that our next coach will fail that you would only except the greatest coach in the history of the NHL.

[Eleven]

You for me. You are so afraid that our next coach will fail that you would only except the greatest coach in the history of the NHL.

 

And you can't name anyone else who would be better than Ruff!

[SwampD]

And you can't name anyone else who would be better than Ruff!

We're dealing in hypotheticals here so you can't name me one who could be worse either, but at least I'm willing to try.

 

 

 

For the record, my list of The NHLs Greatest Coaches does not go:

 

1.Scotty Bowman

2.Lindy Ruff

3....

[ntjacks79]

Gomez, Gionta, Cammalleri, Gill, Markov, Plekanec, Georges, Bergeron, Subban, and Halak and Price in net....yeah, the Canadiens really suck. :blink:

 

Anyone here who doesn't see the Habs winning the Division at least the next two-three seasons is in fantasyland.

Is this post serious? If the Habs are "so great", how did they finish FOURTH in a division won by the SABRES... a team most of us agree is not that great. Did your "heroes" just decide to take the season off?