end the curse Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 This was unnecessary and created some ill will that detracted from a good hockey debate. Point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I think some posters are getting a bit overwrought here. While Rivet hasn't been setting the world on fire, he's also not been the train wreck that some here seem to be imagining. He's a good, solid, steady, veteran defenseman who is a leader and knows what to do in every situation. He's on the ice in crunch time when grownups are needed. He doesn't get panicked. He doesn't allow his goalie to get run. Want some stats? He's #4 in ice time (over 19 minutes per game), and the captain, for the team that is #1 in the NHL in GAA and #2 in the EC and #4 in the NHL in points. He's a minus-2 on the season -- same as Gonchar, Matthias Ohlund and Brad Stuart. Frankly, while Butler hasn't been setting the world on fire either, I don't see him falling apart either. He is what he is -- a young defenseman with a pretty good, steady, defense-first game. There's a reason the Sabres are #1 in the NHL in defense, and it ain't just Miller. The team as a whole is playing great defense. I think it would be crazy to get panicked over +/- stats and start shaking up the lineup. :thumbsup: I truly believe that Rivet has also had a positive effect on Myers' play as well, even though he is not paired with him. Remember when all the questions were about if Myers was going to be sent back down after 9 games or not? Rivet said, "You don't send down your best defensemen." There is no way that statement was only for the media or even the coaches. That was for Myers himself and I think it was a great show of confidence and leadership by him and one of the reasons they all are playing so well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NNYSABRESMAN Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I think some posters are getting a bit overwrought here. While Rivet hasn't been setting the world on fire, he's also not been the train wreck that some here seem to be imagining. He's a good, solid, steady, veteran defenseman who is a leader and knows what to do in every situation. He's on the ice in crunch time when grownups are needed. He doesn't get panicked. He doesn't allow his goalie to get run. Want some stats? He's #4 in ice time (over 19 minutes per game), and the captain, for the team that is #1 in the NHL in GAA and #2 in the EC and #4 in the NHL in points. He's a minus-2 on the season -- same as Gonchar, Matthias Ohlund and Brad Stuart. Frankly, while Butler hasn't been setting the world on fire either, I don't see him falling apart either. He is what he is -- a young defenseman with a pretty good, steady, defense-first game. There's a reason the Sabres are #1 in the NHL in defense, and it ain't just Miller. The team as a whole is playing great defense. I think it would be crazy to get panicked over +/- stats and start shaking up the lineup. I'm with you. hard to fix what aint broke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Butler has been a little better since returning from injury than before he went out but I agree - he's still nowhere close to the consistent, reliable presence he was last season. He seems to be more indecisive with the puck which leads to turnovers in his own end when forecheckers pressure him, and errant passes when he tries setting up offensive plays. He's absolutely clueless on the power play and definitely shows his lack of experience of ever playing that role in college. Did you mean to say it that way? This implies that he didn't play on the PP at Denver, when he ran the #1 unit there for two seasons after Matt Carle left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calvin Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I'm with you. hard to fix what aint broke! Right. So meanwhile we watch something get worse and worse and do nothing about it, and then when it's broken, try to fix it then. Of course, then the fans will complain "Why didn't we do something earlier?!" Don't you just love one-sentence analyses? I've been championing the 'Rivet needs to sit for a few games' cause for some time now, but I guess that will not happen until he gets hurt. It's a sad day when people are hoping that the team captain gets hurt so that a player in better form (Sekera) gets to play. I also agree that if he is the true leader of the team, then it only is manifested in the locker room, cos I for one never see it on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbossy Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 All this Rivet talk is Tallinder-esque. Maybe a Rivet booblehead night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end the curse Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I hope Rivet comes alive and makes those of us critical of his sub par play eat our words. After all, if Hecht and Tallinder could do it, anybody can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NNYSABRESMAN Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Right. So meanwhile we watch something get worse and worse and do nothing about it, and then when it's broken, try to fix it then. Of course, then the fans will complain "Why didn't we do something earlier?!" Don't you just love one-sentence analyses? I've been championing the 'Rivet needs to sit for a few games' cause for some time now, but I guess that will not happen until he gets hurt. It's a sad day when people are hoping that the team captain gets hurt so that a player in better form (Sekera) gets to play. I also agree that if he is the true leader of the team, then it only is manifested in the locker room, cos I for one never see it on the ice. Sorry my one sentence analyses caused such a stir! Thought when I highlighted the quote that I was agreeing with that it would suffice. Anyway I dont disagree that maybe some rest might be in order for Rivet, but how to do it without undermining the captain role on the team is the problem. It really seem's to me that the team is finding a groove finally over the last 5 games and there appears to be better team chemistry. Why upset the apple cart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end the curse Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 You don't sit a healthy captain even if he stinks, particularly if you're in 1st place. Too much team chemistry on the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Right. So meanwhile we watch something get worse and worse and do nothing about it, and then when it's broken, try to fix it then. Of course, then the fans will complain "Why didn't we do something earlier?!" Don't you just love one-sentence analyses? I've been championing the 'Rivet needs to sit for a few games' cause for some time now, but I guess that will not happen until he gets hurt. It's a sad day when people are hoping that the team captain gets hurt so that a player in better form (Sekera) gets to play. I also agree that if he is the true leader of the team, then it only is manifested in the locker room, cos I for one never see it on the ice. Well, I think whether something is getting "worse and worse" is in the eye of the beholder. Lindy doesn't seem to see it that way, since Rivet was #3 in ice time among the D last night. And I don't think anyone (even you, I presume) is hoping he gets hurt so Sekera can play. As far as that goes, if one of the other D is healthy-scratched and Sekera gets back into the lineup, it will most likely be Butler or Lydman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 I think some posters are getting a bit overwrought here. While Rivet hasn't been setting the world on fire, he's also not been the train wreck that some here seem to be imagining. He's a good, solid, steady, veteran defenseman who is a leader and knows what to do in every situation. He's on the ice in crunch time when grownups are needed. He doesn't get panicked. He doesn't allow his goalie to get run. Want some stats? He's #4 in ice time (over 19 minutes per game), and the captain, for the team that is #1 in the NHL in GAA and #2 in the EC and #4 in the NHL in points. He's a minus-2 on the season -- same as Gonchar, Matthias Ohlund and Brad Stuart. Frankly, while Butler hasn't been setting the world on fire either, I don't see him falling apart either. He is what he is -- a young defenseman with a pretty good, steady, defense-first game. There's a reason the Sabres are #1 in the NHL in defense, and it ain't just Miller. The team as a whole is playing great defense. I think it would be crazy to get panicked over +/- stats and start shaking up the lineup. +1 We could also turn this conversation into a "well you know they are playing a system imposed by the coach, so maybe he is performing well to the coaching standards and this really is a coaching issue". ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Good internet response except for the facts that my parents don't have a basement in their house nor have I lived there for 30 years. :oops: and why is it always the parents basement? When I lived with Mom I had my own room upstairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 and why is it always the parents basement? When I lived with Mom I had my own room upstairs. And what about all the worthless kids of trailer trash out there? They don't have the luxury of a basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
static70 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Butler is just not that good of a hockey player. I think Buffalo has Dmen who are better than him. Sekera, Weber, even Paetsch. Not that I don't think Butler can't be good, he is young. But I would prefer to see Sekera or Weber in there over him. Just an opinion though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
end the curse Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Well, I think whether something is getting "worse and worse" is in the eye of the beholder. Lindy doesn't seem to see it that way, since Rivet was #3 in ice time among the D last night. And I don't think anyone (even you, I presume) is hoping he gets hurt so Sekera can play. As far as that goes, if one of the other D is healthy-scratched and Sekera gets back into the lineup, it will most likely be Butler or Lydman. I don't see any healthy scratches from the current Top 6 at D, but if they did Lydman would not be the one. His level of play has been 2nd only to Myers, plus he's by far our most physical d-man. If they had to sit somebody it would be Butler, but I honestly can't see that happening unless he really started to tank. We may have the best group of backliners in the NHL right now, so it's kinda funny to see all this arguing about who needs to be benched. My review: Myers is simply The One. In my mind he's already, right now, today, the best defenseman the Sabres have ever had. Lydman started out the year missing extended time due to his injured groin, and then took a few games to get his legs back underneath him after he returned. The past month he's really stepped up his game, though, playing tough, physical, smart hockey at both ends. I rate him as our 2nd best defenseman. Tallinder has shown incredible improvement from last year. Though still a bit passive for my tastes, he has been very strong at both ends of the ice with and without the puck. He's using his range and playing angles better than ever. His pairing with Myers has been very symbiotic. Montador has been a very pleasant surprise. He's a very solid all-around defenseman with good speed, carries the puck effectively, has a mean streak, doesn't make many mistakes and has a lot of grit. A fixture on the backline for a long time to come - I hope. Butler is quietly effective but certainly not perfect. His strengths are excellent positional play, intelligence, composure, and good size and speed. His weaknesses are youth and the lack of a mean streak. He needs to play a little angrier. Rivet has become our weakest link at D, but he's still the captain of the team and has enough of a physical presence left to help keep things honest around Miller. Very, very slow and has been caught out of position way too much. Needs to throw his weight around more. Sekera still seems to get panicky in his own end. Too many turnovers, not enough hitting, and not displaying the offensive skills we all had hoped for when he was first coming up. I actually think he's looked better at forward, showing more speed, energy and physical presence than at the backline, and would consider making a permanent switch. Paetsch I have a soft spot for in my heart. He's a pretty solid, if unspectacular, defenseman who always plays hard and could easily plug into the 6th/7th spot. He got shuffled to 8th because of the numbers, but I would be very comfortable with him taking over as the 6th man if there is injury or losses next season due to FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
static70 Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Player Team Pos GP Hits BkS MsS GvA TkA FOW FOL Tot FO% %Tm Shots G S% 7 Chris Butler BUF D 30 26 34 20 20 4 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 31 0 0.0 8 Toni Lydman BUF D 28 46 34 10 28 2 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 28 1 3.6 9 Steve Montador BUF D 42 32 43 27 29 10 0 1 1 0.0 0.0 74 2 2.7 10 Tyler Myers BUF D 42 47 73 33 53 12 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 43 4 9.3 11 Nathan Paetsch BUF D 10 4 3 2 3 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 9 1 11.1 12 Craig Rivet BUF D 40 24 31 19 27 11 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 31 0 0.0 13 Andrej Sekera BUF D 28 23 26 8 15 10 0 1 1 0.0 0.1 34 2 5.9 14 Henrik Tallinder BUF D 42 34 50 10 31 10 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 25 2 8.0 I'll take Sekera, more Offensively orientated and similiar numbers on the defensive side. Plus the give away numbers. I just see Butlers inexperience shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted January 7, 2010 Report Share Posted January 7, 2010 Player Team Pos GP Hits BkS MsS GvA TkA FOW FOL Tot FO% %Tm Shots G S% 7 Chris Butler BUF D 30 26 34 20 20 4 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 31 0 0.0 8 Toni Lydman BUF D 28 46 34 10 28 2 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 28 1 3.6 9 Steve Montador BUF D 42 32 43 27 29 10 0 1 1 0.0 0.0 74 2 2.7 10 Tyler Myers BUF D 42 47 73 33 53 12 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 43 4 9.3 11 Nathan Paetsch BUF D 10 4 3 2 3 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 9 1 11.1 12 Craig Rivet BUF D 40 24 31 19 27 11 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 31 0 0.0 13 Andrej Sekera BUF D 28 23 26 8 15 10 0 1 1 0.0 0.1 34 2 5.9 14 Henrik Tallinder BUF D 42 34 50 10 31 10 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 25 2 8.0 I'll take Sekera, more Offensively orientated and similiar numbers on the defensive side. Plus the give away numbers. I just see Butlers inexperience shows. I think Butler is a bit steadier on D, which is what the system calls for this year. Even so, I think Sekera will be top-6 (and probably top-4) next year. He's just caught in a numbers game this year. But he's only 23 and has a ton of potential, including the best wheels of any of the defensemen on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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