deluca67 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Is anyone else sickened by all these recent trades in MLB? They might as well go to a 12 team league. :thumbdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 As long as the Yankees win then I'm all for it! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Is anyone else sickened by all these recent trades in MLB? They might as well go to a 12 team league. :thumbdown: You're generous. Two teams plus four large-market and two mid-market teams that happen to be hot in whatever year, is what baseball has become. MLB has turned into crap, and that really sucks, because it used to be a great game to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 As long as the Yankees win then I'm all for it! :thumbsup: I'm a Red Sox fan. I won;t be jumping for joy if they get Halliday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Is anyone else sickened by all these recent trades in MLB? They might as well go to a 12 team league. :thumbdown: I'm disgusted. Two years in a row my Tribe has traded the reigning Cy Young winner. And so far this Cliff Lee deal isn't blowing my skirt up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm disgusted. Two years in a row my Tribe has traded the reigning Cy Young winner. And so far this Cliff Lee deal isn't blowing my skirt up. They actually got some pretty good talent back. Problem with trades like this is, it's all "potential" talent... lots of young guys lighting it up in the minors, which amounts to nothing for the big league team. If they pan out, though, it will have been worth it. This is the way of MLB. If you're not in it, you try and move a guy or 2 in hopes of restocking your farm teams with young potential. Either way, I'd friggin HATE to be a Pirates fan.... those guys in their FO should be arrested and charged with fraud, because that franchise is a disgrace to organized sports. :thumbdown: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 They actually got some pretty good talent back. Problem with trades like this is, it's all "potential" talent... lots of young guys lighting it up in the minors, which amounts to nothing for the big league team. If they pan out, though, it will have been worth it. This is the way of MLB. If you're not in it, you try and move a guy or 2 in hopes of restocking your farm teams with young potential. Either way, I'd friggin HATE to be a Pirates fan.... those guys in their FO should be arrested and charged with fraud, because that franchise is a disgrace to organized sports. :thumbdown: They got a lot of what ifs and maybes with this trade. The centerpiece is the single-A kid, Jason Knapp, an 18-year-old, 6-5, 215 hard-throwing lefty who hits 98/99 on the gun. Carrasco might be ready to pitch for the Tribe next year, but Marson seems like a career backup catcher and Donald is a light-hitting SS/2nd baseman hitting .230 right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 They actually got some pretty good talent back. Problem with trades like this is, it's all "potential" talent... lots of young guys lighting it up in the minors, which amounts to nothing for the big league team. If they pan out, though, it will have been worth it. Just look how long it took Lee to become the pitcher he is today. It's hard to believe that they got him for Colon 7 years ago. I don't have a clue who Lee Stevens was, but my god that was a sick deal. Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips?! :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Just look how long it took Lee to become the pitcher he is today. It's hard to believe that they got him for Colon 7 years ago. I don't have a clue who Lee Stevens was, but my god that was a sick deal. Sizemore, Lee, and Phillips?! :o In the end what does it matter? When the time comes and any of those players are really good they will be shipped out. So what if they got Lee as part of the Colon deal? They don't have either now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 In the end what does it matter? When the time comes and any of those players are really good they will be shipped out. So what if they got Lee as part of the Colon deal? They don't have either now. The best player in that deal is still in Cleveland. The point though, is that if these teams re-tool in the right way, they can bounce right back up there quickly. It's that Florida Marlins effect from 2003. But then again, they say that team teams are far more stingy today when it comes to unloading prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 The best player in that deal is still in Cleveland. The point though, is that if these teams re-tool in the right way, they can bounce right back up there quickly. It's that Florida Marlins effect from 2003. But then again, they say that team teams are far more stingy today when it comes to unloading prospects. For how long? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightLights Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm probably in the minority here in that I love baseball. I don't mind the big teams, it just makes it fun to root against them and root for the underdogs. I love the fact that there are the evil empires to root against and root for the younger teams often from the smaller markets. Granted I'm biased because I'm from Colorado and root for the Rockies. The point is the smaller markets make these changes because they won't be able to afford them long term and the have to replenish the farm system to compete in the future. Does it suck when it's your team-of course. I hated the fact that the Rockies traded away Holliday last off season but it's how the economic system in baseball works. However, I love rooting for the upstart young teams against the big markets i.e. Tampa last year and Colorado the year before. I will agree about the Pirates FO. I've actually liked the Pirates since childhood and they are a complete fraud. I can understand moving Sanchez and Wilson but the earlier trades of Morgan and McLouth were ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 There was a time where the Commissioner of Baseball rejected trades because they went against the integrity of the game. The soul has gone out of the game as has the integrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 In the end what does it matter? When the time comes and any of those players are really good they will be shipped out. So what if they got Lee as part of the Colon deal? They don't have either now. Yep. Every team not based in NY, Boston, LA or Chicago essentially serves as a minor league club and feeder team for the big market clubs. It's very rare anymore that any teams outside the big markets can acquire young talent, develop them, and hang on to them when they become stars. To be fair, I am not pointing the finger of blame for the Tribe's situation solely at baseball's economic climate. It certainly hasn't helped, but the Tribe has made their own bed with a number of reasons: a very average manager who has gotten way too much rope and still hasn't hung himself; a GM that is awful in free agency; they haven't drafted particularly well over the last 5 or so years; and an owner that doesn't have the resources to compete. I am starting to think that cleaning out the coaching staff and GM might be the only way to turn things around for the Erie Warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwcolour Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I can agree with a lot of what has been said, but everyone acts like its the same teams in the world series every single year and that its only NY, LA, Bos or CHI teams and that no other teams have a chance. I understand that most of these smaller market teams don't retain a lot of their players but it isn't like they have no chance. Just the past years there have been teams in the WS that aren't the "BIG TEAMS" Last year: TBrays. 07: Col Rockies 06: St. Louis, Det 05: CWS, Houston 04: STL 03: FLMarlins 02: SF Giants 01:AzDiamondbacks http://mcubed.net/mlb/ws.shtml keep looking down the list, I think more people think there is less parody than there actually is. Some teams are sure to be in there year after year but it isn't like the same 6 teams are the only ones represented or the only ones winning. I honestly feel like some of it is just Tribe fan sour grapes. Baseball is an especially fickle game, hell two years ago Lee was sent down to the minors, and he comes back to win Cy Young two years later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I'm a Red Sox fan. I won;t be jumping for joy if they get Halliday. Even if we get him we can't beat the Sox and Angels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 They actually got some pretty good talent back. Problem with trades like this is, it's all "potential" talent... lots of young guys lighting it up in the minors, which amounts to nothing for the big league team. If they pan out, though, it will have been worth it. This is the way of MLB. If you're not in it, you try and move a guy or 2 in hopes of restocking your farm teams with young potential. Either way, I'd friggin HATE to be a Pirates fan.... those guys in their FO should be arrested and charged with fraud, because that franchise is a disgrace to organized sports. :thumbdown: Why? They landed Tim Alderson for Freddie Sanchez. That may be the biggest steal of this deadline week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrcursed Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Why? They landed Tim Alderson for Freddie Sanchez. That may be the biggest steal of this deadline week. Well, aside from them dumping Bay and Nady last year, and McLouth, Morgan, Laroche, Snell and Wilson this year, they haven't put together a winning season since 1992. It's one thing to trade a couple of high end guys for some top prospects in return, but when you haven't broken .500 in 16 years, I'd say it's not working. In looking at some of the comments left by Pirates fans concerning their recent trade frenzy, I'd say most would agree that it's getting old watching all of their best players being shipped out year after year. You have to wonder, if Alderson actually pans out in the bigs, how long it will be before he's shipped out for "promising prospects". I also wouldn't call this trade a steal. The Pirates just traded one of the better second baseman in the league whose been an all-star 3 of the last 4 years, won a batting title, and played in at least 130 games each of the last 4 years. Potentially speaking, Alderson looks sick, but until he shows something, I wouldn't classify this as a "steal". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereal Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Is this the complaint Thursday thread? :rolleyes: I used to be a big baseball fan, Yankess fan actually. When they traded away Soriano for A-Rod in '04 I was pretty pissed... that's when I started not paying much attention. All the 'roids crap of course did not help keep my interest. Re: Pirates; I've heard that they're actually one of (if not THE) most profitable teams in baseball? Anyone have any stats on this? Not sure if it's %revenue or what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Wings Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Well, aside from them dumping Bay and Nady last year, and McLouth, Morgan, Laroche, Snell and Wilson this year, they haven't put together a winning season since 1992. It's one thing to trade a couple of high end guys for some top prospects in return, but when you haven't broken .500 in 16 years, I'd say it's not working. In looking at some of the comments left by Pirates fans concerning their recent trade frenzy, I'd say most would agree that it's getting old watching all of their best players being shipped out year after year. E$PN had something last night about what would their roster be if they kept everyone over the past few years...their lineup would be something like this: 1B LaRoche 2B Sanchez SS Wilson 3B Aramis Ramirez LF Bay CF McLouth RF Nady C Jason Kendall SP Snell RP Mike Gonzalez They didn't mention Damaso Marte, either. Didn't their GM put something in the Post-Gazette shortly after the McLouth trade explaining why he did it? I know the fans were pi$$ed about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Dudley Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 They actually got some pretty good talent back. Problem with trades like this is, it's all "potential" talent... lots of young guys lighting it up in the minors, which amounts to nothing for the big league team. If they pan out, though, it will have been worth it. This is the way of MLB. If you're not in it, you try and move a guy or 2 in hopes of restocking your farm teams with young potential. Either way, I'd friggin HATE to be a Pirates fan.... those guys in their FO should be arrested and charged with fraud, because that franchise is a disgrace to organized sports. :thumbdown: I'm probably in the minority here in that I love baseball. I don't mind the big teams, it just makes it fun to root against them and root for the underdogs. I love the fact that there are the evil empires to root against and root for the younger teams often from the smaller markets. Granted I'm biased because I'm from Colorado and root for the Rockies. The point is the smaller markets make these changes because they won't be able to afford them long term and the have to replenish the farm system to compete in the future. Does it suck when it's your team-of course. I hated the fact that the Rockies traded away Holliday last off season but it's how the economic system in baseball works. However, I love rooting for the upstart young teams against the big markets i.e. Tampa last year and Colorado the year before. I will agree about the Pirates FO. I've actually liked the Pirates since childhood and they are a complete fraud. I can understand moving Sanchez and Wilson but the earlier trades of Morgan and McLouth were ridiculous. Is this the complaint Thursday thread? :rolleyes: I used to be a big baseball fan, Yankess fan actually. When they traded away Soriano for A-Rod in '04 I was pretty pissed... that's when I started not paying much attention. All the 'roids crap of course did not help keep my interest. Re: Pirates; I've heard that they're actually one of (if not THE) most profitable teams in baseball? Anyone have any stats on this? Not sure if it's %revenue or what. I have been exiled in Pittsburgh since 92 (coincidentally the last playoff year for the pirates). They sold the fans here shortly after that season and subsequent losing seasons they needed a new baseball only stadium and got it... I believe they have been making money every year since 98 or so supposedly to the tune of anywhere from 5-8 million a year net. Interesting thing they regularly fill up the ballpark seats with friday fireworks, concerts after the game, special kids giveaways... I will say it is a beautiful park to watch an evening game just don't come to watch the pirates, pick a game where your other favorite team is playing here. What also helps is Western PA is big youth sports region, Football, Baseball, Wrestling, Nascar in that order.. The youth baseball and high school baseball programs are packed with new marks and allot of community promotion events bring in all the various groups through the many community atheletic associations to games throughout the season... Solid marketing approach in other words..however the core solid baseball fans(the ones who paint their faces and hillbilly pickups like pirates and pirate ships are finally starting to be more vocal and staying away from the ball park especially when it's still July and your already out of it and having another firesale..... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereal Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I have been exiled in Pittsburgh since 92 (coincidentally the last playoff year for the pirates). They sold the fans here shortly after that season and subsequent losing seasons they needed a new baseball only stadium and got it... I believe they have been making money every year since 98 or so supposedly to the tune of anywhere from 5-8 million a year net. Interesting thing they regularly fill up the ballpark seats with friday fireworks, concerts after the game, special kids giveaways... I will say it is a beautiful park to watch an evening game just don't come to watch the pirates, pick a game where your other favorite team is playing here. What also helps is Western PA is big youth sports region, Football, Baseball, Wrestling, Nascar in that order.. The youth baseball and high school baseball programs are packed with new marks and allot of community promotion events bring in all the various groups through the many community atheletic associations to games throughout the season... Solid marketing approach in other words..however the core solid baseball fans(the ones who paint their faces and hillbilly pickups like pirates and pirate ships are finally starting to be more vocal and staying away from the ball park especially when it's still July and your already out of it and having another firesale..... . Yeah I'll admit, I've been in Pgh the past five years and it's been great to be able to go to a MLB game any time for anywhere from $1/ticket to $20. NICE stadium, family-friendly, great for tailgating too. I see how the fans here can be a bit steamed, but hell, I can't pity them too much, given what the Pens/Stillers have been up to. <_< I think it was two summers ago, a bunch of people tried to stage a walkout during the 3rd inning of a game to protest the FO here. And if I remember correctly, it failed somewhat due to the fact that the team was actually winning the game, so many people wanted to stay and witness the miracle :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I can agree with a lot of what has been said, but everyone acts like its the same teams in the world series every single year and that its only NY, LA, Bos or CHI teams and that no other teams have a chance. I understand that most of these smaller market teams don't retain a lot of their players but it isn't like they have no chance. Just the past years there have been teams in the WS that aren't the "BIG TEAMS" Last year: TBrays. 07: Col Rockies 06: St. Louis, Det 05: CWS, Houston 04: STL 03: FLMarlins 02: SF Giants 01:AzDiamondbacks http://mcubed.net/mlb/ws.shtml keep looking down the list, I think more people think there is less parody than there actually is. Some teams are sure to be in there year after year but it isn't like the same 6 teams are the only ones represented or the only ones winning. I honestly feel like some of it is just Tribe fan sour grapes. Baseball is an especially fickle game, hell two years ago Lee was sent down to the minors, and he comes back to win Cy Young two years later. Yeah, there are Cinderella teams making the WS one year but falling apart the next and having to blow it up and rebuild. Look at who the teams you listed played against: Last year: TBrays. - Philly 07: Col Rockies - Boston 06: St. Louis, Det(not a big market, but a medium one that has been a top 10/12 payroll since; 3rd-highest payroll LY, 5th-highest in 09) 05: CWS, Houston - two mid-size markets with the 12th/13th highest payrolls that year 04: STL - Boston - St Louis had the 9th-highest payroll that year 03: FLMarlins - NY Yanks 02: SF Giants - LA/Anaheim Angels - SF actually had the higher payroll (10th highest) versus LAA's 14th 01:AzDiamondbacks - NY Yanks - AZ had the 8th-highest payroll that year 00: NYYanks - NY Mets So it's less big market versus small market, but more like higher payroll = better chance you get into the playoffs/WS. I'm not saying that spending more $$ means you'll automatically make it into the playoffs - but the extra spending sure seems to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 E$PN had something last night about what would their roster be if they kept everyone over the past few years...their lineup would be something like this: 1B LaRoche 2B Sanchez SS Wilson 3B Aramis Ramirez LF Bay CF McLouth RF Nady C Jason Kendall SP Snell RP Mike Gonzalez They didn't mention Damaso Marte, either. Didn't their GM put something in the Post-Gazette shortly after the McLouth trade explaining why he did it? I know the fans were pi$$ed about that one. Is it really fair to put together a list like this that points out where they could be without all their salary dumps when some of these guys were the product of earlier salary dumps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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