GrimFandango Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I heard this mentioned on WGR a few weeks ago when discussing how the Sabres had been screwed by the cap like no other team since the lockout (due to their success). I did a quick search and didn't see it on the board anywhere so i went ahead and added up the total amount of compensation the 05-06 Roster is making around the league in 08-09. I do blame a lot of the recent struggles on Regier (and on the players themselves), but how in the world was he supposed to keep this team together from a few years back. Regardless, i found this interesting. The total amount of 08-09 compensation came to 79 Million (double the cap number from 05-06 and still well in excess of the current cap number, and it doesn't take into account the raise that Miller and Pommers is getting at the end of the season). If its already been done, i apologize for the double post, otherwise, take it for what you will. Maxim Afinogenov 3.5 Chris Drury 7.1 Ales Kotalik 2.5 Daniel Briere 8 Tim Connolly 3.5 Thomas Vanek 8 Derek Roy 3.5 Brian Campbell 7.1 Jochen Hecht 3.8 J.P. Dumont 4 Teppo Numminen 1.1 Jason Pominville 1.4 Paul Gaustad 1.7 Mike Grier 1.8 Henrik Tallinder 2.9 Dmitri Kalinin 2.1 Toni Lydman 3.2 Jay McKee 4 Taylor Pyatt 1.6 Rory Fitzpatrick n/a Adam Mair 0.7 Ryan Miller 3.5 Martin Biron 3.5 Mika Noronen n/a Andrew Peters 0.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thesportsbuff Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 that's actually an incredibly interesting set of statistics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Dwight Drane Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 The following players have verified through the media that they would have accepted these terms if signed 6-9 months earlier than when approached by Regier: Briere 5 years $25 million Drury 4 years $22 million Dumont $2.5 million per year McKee 4 years $10 million Campbell 5 years $25 million right there you trim off $9.7 million If those players were under contract and the Sabres weren't wounded possums, Kevin Lowe would never have made that offer to Vanek. Vanek would be signed for $6 million...and that is a consensus at the time. $11.7 in savings You didn't need Marty and Miller. We happened to let a guy walk that we could have had for $1.5 million that played like an all star in Pitt. $13.7 in savings If Drury and others were locked up, Greir stays If All of the above are signed long term, Regier doesn't have to reach for inflated extensions on Hecht, Afinogenov, Kotalik, Roy. Of those 4 only Roy is worth the money. With Grier and Dumont, Hecht isn't here today or for anywhere near that money. Minus $750K on all 4 mentioned, or cut player of choice $16.7 in savings When your top 3 centers are Drury, Briere, and Roy....you don't sign a thrice concussed strawman to be your 4th center at $3.5 million $20.2 in savings You are down to $58.8 in salary. You are $2.1 over the cap with the entire roster intact, minus Connolly and having Conklin as a backup to Miller. If Campbell is here, both Lydman and Tallinder probably don't get those extentions. I let Tallinder go and replace him with Butler. You can let Rory Fitzpatrick have a small salary and pick that back up through injuries. This is not fiction.......the key players COULD HAVE BEEN UNDER CONTRACT THIS YEAR AT THOSE PRICES! All other events were the dominoes of crap that unfolded because those key players were not here. How does this lineup look for $56 million? Vanek Briere Dumont Greir Drury Hecht Afinogenov Roy Pominville Kotalik Gaustad Pyatt Campbell Lydman McKee Kalinin Butler Fitzpatrick Miller Conklin Mair, Peters, Teppo I've made 1 post all season. This makes #2. I would have taken Quinn and Regier behind the barn and shot them dead 3 years ago, and the long time posters know that. By the time Drury and Briere were let go, it was too late for this group anyway. Dumont, Mckee, Greir, Pyatt have more grit in them than the entire current roster. That is where it started.....and 2 years out of the playoffs after being the Stanley Cup Favorite is where it ends. I thank the sweet baby Jesus I stopped watching, but if you guys let this organization get off for what they have done to you....then there is no hope for humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 The following players have verified through the media that they would have accepted these terms if signed 6-9 months earlier than when approached by Regier: And players never tell the media anything that isn't true....(yawn)...I'm going back to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Nobody can say with certainty exactly what numbers the players would have signed for and you always have to think about the context of the timing (like Briere's 5 x $5 million when it took an arbitrator just to get 1 x $5 million and people still weren't happy that they had to pay that much -- remember that the cap was much lower at that point.) However, the point does remain that looking at their current salaries isn't a great indication of what the Sabres could have had them for either. Certainly, in Campbell's case, they could have had him for much less than his Chicago salary. There isn't one of the big three (Drury, Briere, Campbell) that I would have wanted for his current salary (though, I'm not sure that Drury is overpaid by any more than how much Hecht is overpaid; i.e., what they are making - what they are worth), but at what they probably would have cost to keep here, I would have taken one or two (probably not all three.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 The following players have verified through the media that they would have accepted these terms if signed 6-9 months earlier than when approached by Regier: Briere 5 years $25 million Drury 4 years $22 million Dumont $2.5 million per year McKee 4 years $10 million Campbell 5 years $25 million right there you trim off $9.7 million If those players were under contract and the Sabres weren't wounded possums, Kevin Lowe would never have made that offer to Vanek. Vanek would be signed for $6 million...and that is a consensus at the time. $11.7 in savings You didn't need Marty and Miller. We happened to let a guy walk that we could have had for $1.5 million that played like an all star in Pitt. $13.7 in savings If Drury and others were locked up, Greir stays If All of the above are signed long term, Regier doesn't have to reach for inflated extensions on Hecht, Afinogenov, Kotalik, Roy. Of those 4 only Roy is worth the money. With Grier and Dumont, Hecht isn't here today or for anywhere near that money. Minus $750K on all 4 mentioned, or cut player of choice $16.7 in savings When your top 3 centers are Drury, Briere, and Roy....you don't sign a thrice concussed strawman to be your 4th center at $3.5 million $20.2 in savings You are down to $58.8 in salary. You are $2.1 over the cap with the entire roster intact, minus Connolly and having Conklin as a backup to Miller. If Campbell is here, both Lydman and Tallinder probably don't get those extentions. I let Tallinder go and replace him with Butler. You can let Rory Fitzpatrick have a small salary and pick that back up through injuries. This is not fiction.......the key players COULD HAVE BEEN UNDER CONTRACT THIS YEAR AT THOSE PRICES! All other events were the dominoes of crap that unfolded because those key players were not here. How does this lineup look for $56 million? Vanek Briere Dumont Greir Drury Hecht Afinogenov Roy Pominville Kotalik Gaustad Pyatt Campbell Lydman McKee Kalinin Butler Fitzpatrick Miller Conklin Mair, Peters, Teppo I've made 1 post all season. This makes #2. I would have taken Quinn and Regier behind the barn and shot them dead 3 years ago, and the long time posters know that. By the time Drury and Briere were let go, it was too late for this group anyway. Dumont, Mckee, Greir, Pyatt have more grit in them than the entire current roster. That is where it started.....and 2 years out of the playoffs after being the Stanley Cup Favorite is where it ends. I thank the sweet baby Jesus I stopped watching, but if you guys let this organization get off for what they have done to you....then there is no hope for humanity. Thank you. To Swamp D, do a little research. Its not the players only that said this but the team itself has acknowledged what they were looking for by offering the same contracts long after they should have. TG and LQ screwed this city by their slow to respond, total inaction or shortsightedness(sic) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Thank you. To Swamp D, do a little research. Its not the players only that said this but the team itself has acknowledged what they were looking for by offering the same contracts long after they should have. TG and LQ screwed this city by their slow to respond, total inaction or shortsightedness(sic) And players and management never tell the media anything that isn't true....(yawn)...I'm going back to bed. Fixed. If I want to rehash this I'll just go back and read "Briere 48". We all made our feelings perfectly clear in that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Thank you. To Swamp D, do a little research. Its not the players only that said this but the team itself has acknowledged what they were looking for by offering the same contracts long after they should have. TG and LQ screwed this city by their slow to respond, total inaction or shortsightedness(sic) Thanks for what? The fantasy that NHL rosters can remain absolutely unchanged for four seasons on end? That players never want to leave the vibrant city of Buffalo, NY, or their beloved "players coach" Lindy Ruff? (Grier's wife wanted out of Dodge, IIRC, and Drury wanted to play for his boyhood team.) That agents are going to let their clients flush millions down the drain, on the verge of free agency? The post was well written, very creative and very entertaining, but entertaining for all the wrong reasons. I imagine Darcy could frame that one for the office john. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 The following players have verified through the media that they would have accepted these terms if signed 6-9 months earlier than when approached by Regier: Briere 5 years $25 million Drury 4 years $22 million Dumont $2.5 million per year McKee 4 years $10 million Campbell 5 years $25 million right there you trim off $9.7 million If those players were under contract and the Sabres weren't wounded possums, Kevin Lowe would never have made that offer to Vanek. Vanek would be signed for $6 million...and that is a consensus at the time. $11.7 in savings You didn't need Marty and Miller. We happened to let a guy walk that we could have had for $1.5 million that played like an all star in Pitt. $13.7 in savings If Drury and others were locked up, Greir stays If All of the above are signed long term, Regier doesn't have to reach for inflated extensions on Hecht, Afinogenov, Kotalik, Roy. Of those 4 only Roy is worth the money. With Grier and Dumont, Hecht isn't here today or for anywhere near that money. Minus $750K on all 4 mentioned, or cut player of choice $16.7 in savings When your top 3 centers are Drury, Briere, and Roy....you don't sign a thrice concussed strawman to be your 4th center at $3.5 million $20.2 in savings You are down to $58.8 in salary. You are $2.1 over the cap with the entire roster intact, minus Connolly and having Conklin as a backup to Miller. If Campbell is here, both Lydman and Tallinder probably don't get those extentions. I let Tallinder go and replace him with Butler. You can let Rory Fitzpatrick have a small salary and pick that back up through injuries. This is not fiction.......the key players COULD HAVE BEEN UNDER CONTRACT THIS YEAR AT THOSE PRICES! All other events were the dominoes of crap that unfolded because those key players were not here. How does this lineup look for $56 million? Vanek Briere Dumont Greir Drury Hecht Afinogenov Roy Pominville Kotalik Gaustad Pyatt Campbell Lydman McKee Kalinin Butler Fitzpatrick Miller Conklin Mair, Peters, Teppo I've made 1 post all season. This makes #2. I would have taken Quinn and Regier behind the barn and shot them dead 3 years ago, and the long time posters know that. By the time Drury and Briere were let go, it was too late for this group anyway. Dumont, Mckee, Greir, Pyatt have more grit in them than the entire current roster. That is where it started.....and 2 years out of the playoffs after being the Stanley Cup Favorite is where it ends. I thank the sweet baby Jesus I stopped watching, but if you guys let this organization get off for what they have done to you....then there is no hope for humanity. Ya, if ifs and buts were candy and nuts, everyday would be Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Nobody can say with certainty exactly what numbers the players would have signed for and you always have to think about the context of the timing (like Briere's 5 x $5 million when it took an arbitrator just to get 1 x $5 million and people still weren't happy that they had to pay that much -- remember that the cap was much lower at that point.) However, the point does remain that looking at their current salaries isn't a great indication of what the Sabres could have had them for either. Certainly, in Campbell's case, they could have had him for much less than his Chicago salary. There isn't one of the big three (Drury, Briere, Campbell) that I would have wanted for his current salary (though, I'm not sure that Drury is overpaid by any more than how much Hecht is overpaid; i.e., what they are making - what they are worth), but at what they probably would have cost to keep here, I would have taken one or two (probably not all three.) Who do you think we miss the most? Drury, Briere or Campbell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 That's it, I'm calling PETA. This poor dead horse has been through enough. :wallbash: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 That's it, I'm calling PETA. This poor dead horse has been through enough. :wallbash: I saw a bumper sticker. PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Thanks for what? The fantasy that NHL rosters can remain absolutely unchanged for four seasons on end? That players never want to leave the vibrant city of Buffalo, NY, or their beloved "players coach" Lindy Ruff? (Grier's wife wanted out of Dodge, IIRC, and Drury wanted to play for his boyhood team.) That agents are going to let their clients flush millions down the drain, on the verge of free agency? The post was well written, very creative and very entertaining, but entertaining for all the wrong reasons. I imagine Darcy could frame that one for the office john. People like you have to explain why players and agents, who according to you care nothing about the city or team, for some reason want to influence public opinion by lying about negotiations yet ownership and management, who have everything to gain by misleading the public, apparently are naive, oblivious to the market people, who always tell their constituency the truth. You keep throwing out those Grier and Drury myths as fact yet question any logical assertion that management just screwed up. Grier emphatically denied that family had anything to with his decision and Drury was ready to sign in October if TG had only signed off on the deal. Other players repeatedly sign for below market all across the NHL but according to you, Buffalo, despite being a destination for players upon retirement, apparently offers players no such allure. The fact remains that this organization tore apart a playoff team and have failed miserably in their attempts to rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Who do you think we miss the most? Drury, Briere or Campbell? With either Briere or Drury, they are in the playoffs. With one of them and Campbell they are challenging Boston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 With either Briere or Drury, they are in the playoffs. With one of them and Campbell they are challenging Boston. Briere currently gets paid 1 million dollars per goal. Perty shweet. (yawn)...I'm going back to bed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Briere currently gets paid 1 million dollars per goal. Perty shweet. (yawn)...I'm going back to bed. And in 17 games he has contributed more to his team then Hecht has in 60. Why am I not surprised that someone who is still in bed at 1:00 has no clue how good business works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 People like you have to explain why players and agents, who according to you care nothing about the city or team, for some reason want to influence public opinion by lying about negotiations yet ownership and management, who have everything to gain by misleading the public, apparently are naive, oblivious to the market people, who always tell their constituency the truth. You keep throwing out those Grier and Drury myths as fact yet question any logical assertion that management just screwed up. Grier emphatically denied that family had anything to with his decision and Drury was ready to sign in October if TG had only signed off on the deal. Other players repeatedly sign for below market all across the NHL but according to you, Buffalo, despite being a destination for players upon retirement, apparently offers players no such allure. The fact remains that this organization tore apart a playoff team and have failed miserably in their attempts to rebuild. Why did Drury care if the deal was signed in October or June? What changed? Team success, personal success driving up his value? The Rangers came a-calling maybe, through back door channels? I also wonder why a team leader such as Drury would want to sign in season, knowing what it might do to Briere. Don't you remember Drury sitting in the lockerroom at MSG during the playoffs, talking about what a special place it is? You didn't find that a little odd? As for Grier, I guess I'll have to admit I have no idea what was in his head. Neither do you. He was hitting FA for the first time and tested the waters. Didn't he also question the commitment of ownership? There's one important qualification to make to your comment that Buffalo is "alluring" to hockey players. "Upon retirement." That Hockey News survey from a year or two ago had Buffalo at or near the bottom of the list of places players least wanted to play. Also, not to split hairs, but how many in the hockey community live in the city of Buffalo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 With either Briere or Drury, they are in the playoffs. With one of them and Campbell they are challenging Boston. With all three and a army of naked Carmen Electra robots they could have taken over the world. :thumbsup: If we are going to live in fantasy land lets just go all the way with it. :wallbash: We go over the history again and again and it can be rewritten to fit the opinions of individual posters as it has been over the past two years. Nothing changes the fact that the players that left did so as free agents. Which means it was their decision to leave. They cashed in big in the free agent market which was their right. It was their decision. If they wanted to stay in Buffalo and play for the Sabres they would be in a Sabre uniform on Wednesday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 With all three and a army of naked Carmen Electra robots they could have taken over the world. :thumbsup: If we are going to live in fantasy land lets just go all the way with it. :wallbash: We go over the history again and again and it can be rewritten to fit the opinions of individual posters as it has been over the past two years. Nothing changes the fact that the players that left did so as free agents. Which means it was their decision to leave. They cashed in big in the free agent market which was their right. It was their decision. If they wanted to stay in Buffalo and play for the Sabres they would be in a Sabre uniform on Wednesday night. Correct! This irrefutable fact is also important: with Drury and Briere and Campbell, the Sabres made the finals zero times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdexchange Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Why did they attack Sarah Jessica Parker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Correct! This irrefutable fact is also important: with Drury and Briere and Campbell, the Sabres made the finals zero times. And without them they are a ship without a captain contmeplating the reality that the playoffs are beyond their grasp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Correct! This irrefutable fact is also important: with Drury and Briere and Campbell, the Sabres made the finals zero times. And without them they are a ship without a captain contmeplating the reality that the playoffs are beyond their grasp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Why did Drury care if the deal was signed in October or June? What changed? Team success, personal success driving up his value? The Rangers came a-calling maybe, through back door channels? I also wonder why a team leader such as Drury would want to sign in season, knowing what it might do to Briere. Don't you remember Drury sitting in the lockerroom at MSG during the playoffs, talking about what a special place it is? You didn't find that a little odd?As for Grier, I guess I'll have to admit I have no idea what was in his head. Neither do you. He was hitting FA for the first time and tested the waters. Didn't he also question the commitment of ownership? There's one important qualification to make to your comment that Buffalo is "alluring" to hockey players. "Upon retirement." That Hockey News survey from a year or two ago had Buffalo at or near the bottom of the list of places players least wanted to play. Also, not to split hairs, but how many in the hockey community live in the city of Buffalo? Why? From Rock Stars to Athletes to Evangelist, everyone comments what a special place MSG is. Hockey players talk all the time about their reverence for Montreal or Toronto or "Hockey Night in Canada" yet they don't all flock there. As for the other question, all that crap about not wanting to sign one and not the other is Darcy and Larry crap to fit into their "company plan" with regard to chemistry. Drury or Briere signing in season would have had nothing to do with the other's level of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 And without them they are a ship without a captain contmeplating the reality that the playoffs are beyond their grasp! And with them they would be a older cash strapped team with contracts that would prevent future moves. Instead of a younger cash strapped team with contracts that prevent future movement. :wallbash: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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