jad1 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 This has been an extremely frustrating year. This team just doesn't have the talent to be much more than a middle of the road team. The Sabres have one superstar in Vanek, and then the rest of the team consists of serviceable second liners. Stafford, Connolly, and Roy are all second line players but not elite stars in the NHL. There's just not enough talent on this team and guys like Pominville and Hecht have been humongous disappointments this year. Can they turn it around? I guess they could, but they've been absolutely awful this year. And, while I guess Pominville can be a serviceable second line player as he has proven to be in the past, Hecht is nothing more than a third line grinder and his stats have been padded by playing with Briere and a very talented team in the past, but he's showing what he really is and that's just a defensive checking line player and not much more. I don't think you can be a playoff team with a bunch of second, third, and fourth line players and hope that they overachieve. The same could be said for the blueline as far as I'm concerned. They have 3 sets of second/third pair defenseman on the team, but there is no top pairing defenseman on this team at all. This team does not have a Chara, Pronger, Niedermeyer, or any top pairing defenseman. I know Campbell was here, but I would not consider him a top pairing defenseman as he's just not good defensively at all. Similarly, you can't have a bunch of second and third tier defenseman and hope that they overachieve. Miller is a top 10 goalie, but he's not good enough to compensate for the lack of talent around him. This team just doesn't have enough talent and until they assemble some talent, this is a very mediocre team. I agree with most of what you write here. Is there a coach out there who would have a winning record with Tallinder, Lydman, and Numminem making up half of his defensive corps? How about top six forwards like Hecht, Pomminstein, or Stafford? Who's the leader on this team? Who's the guy who hates to lose? Who gets into the face of his teammates when they cough up the puck with a blind back-hand pass in the neutral zone? Coaching only goes so far. This team is made up of a bunch of guys who are comfortable with mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Regarding a coaching change: what coach out there could win with this bunch of inconsistent, mentally fragile, soft, finesse, heartless players? EDIT: jad beat me to it by a matter of seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 This team is made up of a bunch of guys who are comfortable with mediocrity. And guys who are just way too comfortable, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Damning with faint praise: Ruff supporters who seem to think he can win only if a boatload of talent is dropped in his lap. Good coaches win in lots of different situations. Ruff is well on his way to missing the playoffs for the fifth time in seven years without a Dominator in goal. What does that tell you? Doesn't coaching have a lot to do with the deficiencies we all see in these players? If I see Roy do one more fairy hop and lose the puck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val james Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Darcy built these team and your seeing the results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I'm sorry. There's more than enough talent on this team to at least make the playoffs. That's not asking much. Really? Is there? I don't know, but I don't buy it. We all know your opinion of Miller, so I imagine if you include him in the discussion, that would indicate he's not talented enough or highly overrated. But, aside from Miller who you don't think is that good anyway, and Vanek, this team doesn't have near the talent of the rest of the teams they are fighting with. Just look at the standings. Boston is loaded. Washington is loaded. The Devils have Brodeur and the old band back together again with Holik, Shanahan, Rolston, and then you have guys like Gionta, Elias, Parise, and Zajac who are really good. We saw how much talent Philly has and Buffalo has nowhere near that kind of talent. Montreal has more talent than Buffalo but have had numerous injuries throughout the year. I think Carolina with Staal and Cole have two NHL superstars that the Sabres can't match up with except with Vanek, but aside from that the talent level is pretty even. Florida does not have as much talent at forward as Buffalo does, but their blueline with Bouwmeester, Ballard, McCabe, and Boynton are better than anyone the Sabres put out on a nightly basis. Pittsburgh has underachieved, but it's not for a lack of talent with Malkin and Crosby and now Kunitz and Guerin. The Rangers also have more talent than Buffalo but have a bunch of underachievers. Buffalo's just not as talented as anyone in the East anymore. It's just the fact, and you can see it in their play as well. Tallinder could have been that top pairing defenseman for Buffalo. I really thought he would become a Norris Trophy candidate based on how he played in 2005-2006. But those two broken arms have pretty much taken that player away from us and now we are left with an underachieving second or third tier defenseman. This team really just doesn't have the talent and the heart to compete, and that bugs me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Really? Is there? I don't know, but I don't buy it. We all know your opinion of Miller, so I imagine if you include him in the discussion, that would indicate he's not talented enough or highly overrated. But, aside from Miller who you don't think is that good anyway, and Vanek, this team doesn't have near the talent of the rest of the teams they are fighting with. Just look at the standings. Boston is loaded. Washington is loaded. The Devils have Brodeur and the old band back together again with Holik, Shanahan, Rolston, and then you have guys like Gionta, Elias, Parise, and Zajac who are really good. We saw how much talent Philly has and Buffalo has nowhere near that kind of talent. Montreal has more talent than Buffalo but have had numerous injuries throughout the year. I think Carolina with Staal and Cole have two NHL superstars that the Sabres can't match up with except with Vanek, but aside from that the talent level is pretty even. Florida does not have as much talent at forward as Buffalo does, but their blueline with Bouwmeester, Ballard, McCabe, and Boynton are better than anyone the Sabres put out on a nightly basis. Pittsburgh has underachieved, but it's not for a lack of talent with Malkin and Crosby and now Kunitz and Guerin. The Rangers also have more talent than Buffalo but have a bunch of underachievers. Buffalo's just not as talented as anyone in the East anymore. It's just the fact, and you can see it in their play as well. Tallinder could have been that top pairing defenseman for Buffalo. I really thought he would become a Norris Trophy candidate based on how he played in 2005-2006. But those two broken arms have pretty much taken that player away from us and now we are left with an underachieving second or third tier defenseman. This team really just doesn't have the talent and the heart to compete, and that bugs me. That's a good post. I appreciate it. I don't think talent is the problem with Miller. His head has held him back, IMHO. And he certainly hasn't been a problem after overcoming a pretty poor start. The Sabres are top 5 in PP and PK. This group has shown it is more than capable of being a top 10 team, at least, in goals -- and were last year without Drury and Briere IIRC (sorry to go all DaveB/TaroT on you.) There's enough here to get into the playoffs, for crying out loud. Coaching can make all the difference. It's just time for a fresh approach to the talent that is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingcongkorab Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I agree with most of what you write here. Is there a coach out there who would have a winning record with Tallinder, Lydman, and Numminem making up half of his defensive corps? How about top six forwards like Hecht, Pomminstein, or Stafford? Who's the leader on this team? Who's the guy who hates to lose? Who gets into the face of his teammates when they cough up the puck with a blind back-hand pass in the neutral zone? Coaching only goes so far. This team is made up of a bunch of guys who are comfortable with mediocrity. Bingo, but I still think you need to look at the coach. If the second coming of Paul Maurice can turn the Hurricanes around maybe a coaching change could do that here. Don't get me wrong, I really like like Lindy and think he is a good coach but sometimes a change of scenary is good for both parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Bingo, but I still think you need to look at the coach. If the second coming of Paul Maurice can turn the Hurricanes around maybe a coaching change could do that here. Don't get me wrong, I really like like Lindy and think he is a good coach but sometimes a change of scenary is good for both parties. That's a good way of thinking about it. It doesn't have to be punishment for the job Ruff has done. He's been a good coach. But time runs out on the best of them, including the greats like Bowman. There's nothing wrong with changing coaches! And the wolves would have been howling about it years ago if Ruff wasn't a popular former Sabre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 That's a good post. I appreciate it. I don't think talent is the problem with Miller. His head has held him back, IMHO. And he certainly hasn't been a problem after overcoming a pretty poor start. The Sabres are top 5 in PP and PK. This group has shown it is more than capable of being a top 10 team, at least, in goals -- and were last year without Drury and Briere IIRC (sorry to go all DaveB/TaroT on you.) There's enough here to get into the playoffs, for crying out loud. Coaching can make all the difference. It's just time for a fresh approach to the talent that is here. I won't rehash the offensive mirage that was last season's goal totals, but I will say this - there's just enough talent to sneak into the playoffs, and that's where they are -- trying to sneak into the postseason. They are not talented enough to win the division or finish higher than 7th (maybe 6th if the teams ahead of them all falter) and are closer to being a bubble playoff team than a true contender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val james Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Maybe they will canned the assistants. Patrick and ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
val james Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 That's a good way of thinking about it. It doesn't have to be punishment for the job Ruff has done. He's been a good coach. But time runs out on the best of them, including the greats like Bowman. There's nothing wrong with changing coaches! And the wolves would have been howling about it years ago if Ruff wasn't a popular former Sabre. [/quote Right-on! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Damning with faint praise: Ruff supporters who seem to think he can win only if a boatload of talent is dropped in his lap. Good coaches win in lots of different situations. Ruff is well on his way to missing the playoffs for the fifth time in seven years without a Dominator in goal. What does that tell you? Doesn't coaching have a lot to do with the deficiencies we all see in these players? If I see Roy do one more fairy hop and lose the puck... Do you really believe that the Sabres had a 'boatload' of talent with when they went to the ECF two years in a row? Drury and Briere were good players, but they aren't among the elite players in the league. Those two guys, however, did take care of the locker room and worked with Ruff to hold the players accountable. The Sabres have had some young teams over the last seven years. When Ruff took the rookie Roy to task for 'fairy hopping,' Drury reinforced the message. Today if Ruff did the same thing, Pomminstein would proably pat Roy on the back and tell him not to worry about it, tomorrow is another game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I like Ruff as a coach. Think he is great. But he seems burned out to me. He seems way too proud to quit and firing him is the best thing for him and the team, IMO. Maybe the team is bad, also. Hecht, Pommer, Paille, Max and Connolly being injured so much sure didn't help. Those are a lot of players to have turn in really poor seasons for any coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob_sauve28 Posted March 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 That's a good way of thinking about it. It doesn't have to be punishment for the job Ruff has done. He's been a good coach. But time runs out on the best of them, including the greats like Bowman. There's nothing wrong with changing coaches! And the wolves would have been howling about it years ago if Ruff wasn't a popular former Sabre. That's about the way I see it, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulax Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Do you really believe that the Sabres had a 'boatload' of talent with when they went to the ECF two years in a row? Drury and Briere were good players, but they aren't among the elite players in the league. Those two guys, however, did take care of the locker room and worked with Ruff to hold the players accountable. The Sabres have had some young teams over the last seven years. When Ruff took the rookie Roy to task for 'fairy hopping,' Drury reinforced the message. Today if Ruff did the same thing, Pomminstein would proably pat Roy on the back and tell him not to worry about it, tomorrow is another game. Look at the nomination of Rivet for Captain. These guys claim to be sick of the Briere/Drury discussion but rather than have a leader emerge from within the locker room simply voted for the new guy. Can you imagine this conversation: "Well, he's tough and was on a team that got to the playoffs: he's got to be the guy who will push us to the postseason." When I watch this team it seems like they're begging for someone to produce when the pressures on. Is there honestly a player on the team that would ask for the puck in the last seconds of a game to tie it or go for the win? No! Not when that opportunity could backfire if they missed and blew the game. Then one of the players, on an individual basis (besides Miller), would have to step up and take the blame for the loss. The most annoying part of the whole situation is that they say all the right things, they sound like they know what they're doing. On the ice, that's a completely different thing. I'm starting to wonder why guys like Miller, Pominville, Hecht, Vanek, Roy, and Connolly all signed extensions to play here? When they say that they like the core of this team, are they talking about the core that's on the ice or off it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlecap Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I think we're only two or three superstars from being a contender. (including a goalie) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I think there's a little clue on sabres.com as to what's coming down the pike. On the page where they're pitching season tickets for next year we see this: "Since Tom Golisano has purchased the team, the Sabres have increased its annual player spending from $28 million in 2006 to our current year's spending of $53 million." Tom's probably getting tired of taking the flak for this franchise's slide back into mediocrity. Whether or not he joined in the Drury Cluster#%^$#!, he's probably way beyond taking blame for it now. In sports, Drury-Briere is about 100 years away, son. He has to believe he has ponied up the dough to have a playoff product on the ice -- hence the "chew this microphone in half" comment. I also tend to believe that this man is not lacking in sack. How can he not clean house? The problem is LQ. Where does he fit in? Me, I'm still daydreaming about Bowman coming back and spell-checking one of the few typos on his resume. Why wouldn't he want to help bring a Cup to Buffalo? I was going to say white out the typo, but then people would think I am old or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 If someone can name a coach that could do a better job with this roster I would gladly vote Ruff. This team has : Three quality forwards Vanek, Roy & Pominville Three decent young guys Stafford, Sekera & Butler and a decent goalie in Miller. The rest of the roster is a bunch of crap that would drag any team out of a playoff race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 What's Tommy G think about this? It's over. Do you fire both Ruff and Regier or only one and which one? Where do they go from here? Sign a big off season free agent and build around them? Or is the salary cap already filled up? IF the Sabres miss the playoffs for the 5th time in 7 years, Ruff & Regier both go. It will have gone way beyond stale for Lindy and Regier's idea of building a team just is not panning out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I've said it before...and I'll say it again: Less we forget that Quinn controls the purse, Darcy shops for the groceries, and Lindy makes dinner with the food he's got. Its obvious that with the exception of 1 bottle of Cristal and a few decent leftovers that the fridge is pretty empty. If you fire Lindy...You get James Patrick... No Thanks. I'll Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I'd say that Regier gets the axe first, but at some point the media is going to start chirping about Lindy.Agreed. Regier needs to go first, then give Lindy the year with a revised roster and if he can't do anything with it, he goes too. Who are you going to find out there thats better then Ruff? Some players need to be moved, unfortunatly with Regier, that won't ahppen until the player is able to walk on their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 If someone can name a coach that could do a better job with this roster I would gladly vote Ruff. This team has : Three quality forwards Vanek, Roy & Pominville Three decent young guys Stafford, Sekera & Butler and a decent goalie in Miller. The rest of the roster is a bunch of crap that would drag any team out of a playoff race. I agree with you about 95%, I wouldn't say Pomminstein is a quality forward this season, and Miller is better then just decent. On a team with some slightly better talent, Ruff would have some stanley cups under his belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 is there any ways we can waive Hecht? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SabresFan526 Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 is there any ways we can waive Hecht? Yes, put him on waivers and if he is not picked up you can send him down to the minors as part of waivers. That's how the waiver rule works :thumbsup: But, I don't think Hecht is the main problem. He's one of them. I don't think he's a second line player and should not be playing as one. He's a third line checking forward, and if given that role, I think he could play really well. Also, I think this year is more of first year in long term contractitis than Hecht being a bad player. It happens to a lot of players including Vanek. I think that is also the case with Pominville as well this year even though his contract doesn't kick in till next year. Put him on the third line with Goose and Pominville and get some scoring forwards to play with Roy on the second line and this team will have more talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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