deluca67 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'm all for getting rid of the predetermined, Peters-style, "let's throw our gloves down and pretend we're boxers for 30 seconds before either of us lands a punch" type of fighting. That being said, I'm inclined to believe fighting still has a place in NHL hockey. I still like seeing the players policing themselves rather than watching referees try to "take control." Maybe the AHL and other developmental leagues need to take another look, but I'd be disappointed if the NHL banned it. John Buccigross wrote a nice piece on this earlier this year at ESPN.com. I agree with his reasoning: And as he points out later in the column, sure, people can die in fights. But people also die in their own bathrooms, and nobody's calling for a ban on showers. That has to be the most retarded argument I have seen in a while. The intent of a fight is to hurt your opponent. That is not the intent of a shower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Agreed. That is what broke his neck, but there were others on top of Bertuzzi when they fell. I am not condoning the play. I am just saying that many factors came into play and it all ended up bad. Very bad. Cooke got his ass handed to him in the fight with Moore. The Canucks lost 8-2. AT HOME! Bertuzzi was Naslunds' best friend and wanted Moore to face the music. Crawford shouldn't have had Bertuzzi on the ice. Granato also shouldn't have had Moore on the ice. I just wish Moore had turned around and just grappled with Bertuzzi. He wouldn't have gotten beaten to a pulp because everyone on the ice would have been in there lickitysplit. But I don't condone the play. I'm just sayin it was unlucky how the final result ended up. For those of you who are putting the blinders on, just keep track of how many punches to the head go on in a game with the glove on. It happens a lot, maybe not like that fateful night, but it happens and who's to say that one of those can't do the same thing that happened that night? As for fighting, I could take it or leave it, but I'd prefer to watch two guys in an NHL uni go at it, over that barbaric UFC any night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rickshaw Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 If I were a betting man I'd say that Bertuzzi driving him into the ice was what broke his neck. His arm was on the back of Moore's head/neck and he drove him forward. Not singling rickshaw out, but I've seen a lot of people who seem to be OK with what happened to Moore (or at the very least have a "#%^$#! happens"/"he shoulda manned up and fought" attitude toward it) always seem to discount the fact that Cooke goaded Moore into a fight one period earlier, and the Canucks should have been satisfied then. But in that game the Avs were kicking their all over the ice, and Crawford and co. got embarrassed and mad and decided that Moore hadn't paid enough yet.) Perfect Storm. Sad but true. And to clarify, I'm not OK with what happened to Moore, but I do wish he'd just faced Bertuzzi. That most definitely WOULD have ended it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carpandean Posted January 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Most of us agree upon that.I was just saying Bertuzzi's want to beyond cheap shot him started it all. Simple common sense... I wasn't disagreeing with you. I completely believe that the whole thing was beyond a cheap shot. In addition, if I were betting, I would say that Bertuzzi driving him to the ice broke his neck, not the guys that jumped on afterwords (though, obviously that didn't help.) That is what broke his neck, but there were others on top of Bertuzzi when they fell. No, there weren't: The Avs player (legs seen in first pic) piled on a good second after Bertuzzi drove his head into the ice. Again, while the piling on definitely didn't help, there's a very good chance that his neck was broken on the initial impact with the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wonderbread Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 That has to be the most retarded argument I have seen in a while. The intent of a fight is to hurt your opponent. That is not the intent of a shower. I'm sure retarded people every where are now offended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'm perplexed by the argument that fighting, pre-instigator, allowed the players to "police" the game. It's almost laughable. How do you explain all the goonery and thuggery and mayhem and disfigurement that took place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 My thoughts: Fighting is stupid. Bertuzzi should not be playing in the NHL, period. Moore might still be playing if fighting was not allowed. Then again, Moore might not have had a job if fighting was not allowed. I'd rather see a position reserved for a skill guy than a fighter. If you absolutely need retribution, there is plenty of leeway within the rules to make someone pay(hitting is allowed in the NHL) All players in the NHL need to have more respect for opposing players, Although I feel that current NHL officiating has fostered this attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Then again, Moore might not have had a job if fighting was not allowed. I'd rather see a position reserved for a skill guy than a fighter. Unless he had a different rep in the minors, Moore wasn't a fighter. He was a 3rd/4th-line grinder/banger-type player. The fight against Cooke in the period before Bertuzzi piledrove him was the first and only of his career, according to hockeyfights.com. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Unless he had a different rep in the minors, Moore wasn't a fighter. He was a 3rd/4th-line grinder/banger-type player. The fight against Cooke in the period before Bertuzzi piledrove him was the first and only of his career, according to hockeyfights.com. I kinda thought that when I wrote it. The point stands though. A different set of guys would have a gig if fighting was not allowed and I'm not sure if that's a bad thing. One thing that I am sure of, though, is that the way the game is called is directly responsible for how players treat each other; you can always tell when a game is going to get out of hand, fighting wise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I see your point about some guys being forced into different roles or being out of hockey, but I don't think that applies (or would have applied) to Moore. He was just an energy/checking line guy, nothing more. Taking fighting out of the game wouldn't mean checking and hitting would be gone as well - there would still be the Mairs and Kaletas in the game, they'd just have to adjust somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Fighting or no fighting is definitely a tough call. When you watch the European game, the skill is great to watch, but whenever there is an altercation, all the patty-cake with sticks up in the face gets annoying. You would almost rather they fight. But then again, a lot of the passionless, so-called fights accomplish nothing and are just a cue for me to go get another beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crestwood Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 That has to be the most retarded argument I have seen in a while. The intent of a fight is to hurt your opponent. That is not the intent of a shower. Aw, man, and I thought I'd made it the whole day without something I'd done being called retarded. That wasn't really part of my argument at all -- I said we should rid the NHL of Peters-style, prearranged fighting, and that fighting is what makes the NHL different the other major sports. Fighting is insurance against the Sean Averys and Chris Neils of the league. They know at some point, they'll have to stand up for their antics, and that teams will be especially protective of the captains/stars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I'm sure retarded people every where are now offended. But, do they know it? :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Aw, man, and I thought I'd made it the whole day without something I'd done being called retarded. That wasn't really part of my argument at all -- I said we should rid the NHL of Peters-style, prearranged fighting, and that fighting is what makes the NHL different the other major sports. Fighting is insurance against the Sean Averys and Chris Neils of the league. They know at some point, they'll have to stand up for their antics, and that teams will be especially protective of the captains/stars. Sorry Crestwood. I was referring to the quote not you opinion. I should have put the quote in bold text. I was not calling your opinion "retarded". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crestwood Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Sorry Crestwood. I was referring to the quote not you opinion. I should have put the quote in bold text. I was not calling your opinion "retarded". No worries, DeLuca. For the record, I'm also against whatever the hell Chara was trying to do to Roy tonight, too. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Another AHL fighting incident: PHILADELPHIA - Philadelphia Phantoms forward Garrett Klotz was hospitalized Friday night after a seizure following a fight in an American Hockey League game against the Manchester Monarchs. ------------------ Just after the opening faceoff, Klotz and Kevin Westgarth of the Monarchs took off their helmets and squared off. Westgarth landed a couple of punches, and Smith said Klotz was cut on the face and fell to the ice, where he had ?convulsions.? http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28822185/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 Another AHL fighting incident: PHILADELPHIA - Philadelphia Phantoms forward Garrett Klotz was hospitalized Friday night after a seizure following a fight in an American Hockey League game against the Manchester Monarchs. ------------------ Just after the opening faceoff, Klotz and Kevin Westgarth of the Monarchs took off their helmets and squared off. Westgarth landed a couple of punches, and Smith said Klotz was cut on the face and fell to the ice, where he had ?convulsions.? http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28822185/ The really sad thing is that even if a player dies in a fight nothing will change. Those "old school" Don Cherry types have way too much influence over the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlecap Posted January 24, 2009 Report Share Posted January 24, 2009 here's a great article about Sanderson: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/sports/h...&ref=hockey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foligno's Nose Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 I guess enough is enough after awhile here. These recent incidents (and past accidents) leave no doubt that changes have to be made. The history is rich enough with fights of all lengths (McSorely - Probert), ferocity (Ray - Twist) and real drama (Shanahan - Brashear). Time to stop it. Place it among the cherished relics of the past. The NHL is not smart enough, but the NHL/ NHLPA should find the will to save themselves from a future tragic event and protect the players. They can make the bold change aan set the standard for every other league . Just eliminate it. Nice and easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Bettman says league will "examine" fighting. http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=264478&lid...os=secStory_nhl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foligno's Nose Posted January 25, 2009 Report Share Posted January 25, 2009 Bettman says league will "examine" fighting. Bettman needs his head examined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blugold43 Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 it needs to be done away with. i really enjoy don cherry, but he's obviously a cartoon character. as far as this issue is concerned, screw cherry and i don't see how anyone can defend what has gone on in the nhl with regard to some of the aforementioned incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tulax Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 "What happens when you have a tragedy of this nature -- and that's what it was, it was a tragedy -- there tends to be an overreaction in the media," Burke said after the NHL's board of governors met in the historic Windsor Hotel, the same hotel in which the NHL was formed in 1917. "Our job is to make sure this game is run properly and not to overreact. I intend to listen. "As I said earlier, I think any discussion about the elimination or abolition of fighting will be a very brief one," Burke said. "I don't think there's any support for that whatsoever of a meaningful nature. But a discussion of how we do this, how players do that part of the job, I think it's important and I think that's going to be a lengthy one." As featured in an article by Scott Burnside of ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/allstar2009/columns/story?columnist=burnside_scott&id=3857908) I saw this little gem from the new Maple Leaf's GM on his take on fighting. I realize that he is a bit biased on the matter given that his successful teams in the past have led the league in fighting, but to say that the reporting on two very serious incidents in close proximity to each other is an overreaction on the medias part seems a bit bold. Is that his idea of doing damage control? By saying that the media is pushing this too far? I agree that these events were tragedies and that they must be looked into, but I do believe that the coverage they are getting in at least the States, while minimal due to the sport and the star quality of those involved, is definitely well deserved. I was all for keeping fighting because it is "part of the history of the game" but recently I've realized that fighting makes hockey unlike any sport I can think of because it allows for reckless, moderately controlled violence during a stoppage of play. Maybe the executives will be able to figure out a way to make fighting safer for history's sake. However when I see the face of the league (Crosby) jump someone in the faceoff circle and start punching him without giving him any way to defend himself, I would think that it's in the leagues image interest to cut fighting down. Can you imagine if Crosby, being the "tough guy" Captain that he becomes during a losing streak, dished out a fatal blow? I think you could waive good bye to all the relevance this sport once had with fair weather fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 26, 2009 Report Share Posted January 26, 2009 Another AHL fighting incident: PHILADELPHIA - Philadelphia Phantoms forward Garrett Klotz was hospitalized Friday night after a seizure following a fight in an American Hockey League game against the Manchester Monarchs. ------------------ Just after the opening faceoff, Klotz and Kevin Westgarth of the Monarchs took off their helmets and squared off. Westgarth landed a couple of punches, and Smith said Klotz was cut on the face and fell to the ice, where he had ?convulsions.? http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28822185/ Some company needs to create some sort of removable visor. Sure, it doesn't deal with the issue of fighting at all, but at least it would take care of this situation where players are forced to remove their helmet before fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted January 27, 2009 Report Share Posted January 27, 2009 Why is fighting allowed in hockey? It's 2009, isn't it time to remove fighting from the sport at every level. Sabres fans have witnessed a couple guys near deaths from having jugulars cut. It's 2009, isn't it time to remove the blades from the sport at every level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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