djwilli3 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Apparently they started handing out rose colored glasses to everyone on this site with their first post of the day. You all should go on believing that somehow Buffalo is vastly improved over last season. After all, ignorance of reality is bliss. And frankly if you're pointing to Lalime and Rivet and suggesting that somehow that really is a vast improvement, that shows how far gone people really are. I've been a fan for a long time and I can't recall when these two type signings would get people thinking that we truly improved from our position. And Brian Campbell comes into my analysis because we traded him last year and he thus was not playing for us and not on the roster. And in case you forgot, the team played rather poorly after his dispatch. Perhaps losing one of our best players had something to do with that. And the fact that the guy they acquired for him, whom everyone was raving about at the time, is now gone, doesn't show me much from the FO. Lalime and Rivet might be better than what we had, but the fact remains, they are not vast improvements. They are nothing more than a band aid covering a gushing head wound. :death: Believe what you want, but this FO doesn't have the reputation it does for no reason. Vast improvement. :wallbash: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Apparently they started handing out rose colored glasses to everyone on this site with their first post of the day. You all should go on believing that somehow Buffalo is vastly improved over last season. After all, ignorance of reality is bliss. And frankly if you're pointing to Lalime and Rivet and suggesting that somehow that really is a vast improvement, that shows how far gone people really are. I've been a fan for a long time and I can't recall when these two type signings would get people thinking that we truly improved from our position. And Brian Campbell comes into my analysis because we traded him last year and he thus was not playing for us and not on the roster. And in case you forgot, the team played rather poorly after his dispatch. Perhaps losing one of our best players had something to do with that. And the fact that the guy they acquired for him, whom everyone was raving about at the time, is now gone, doesn't show me much from the FO. Lalime and Rivet might be better than what we had, but the fact remains, they are not vast improvements. They are nothing more than a band aid covering a gushing head wound. :death: Believe what you want, but this FO doesn't have the reputation it does for no reason. Vast improvement. :wallbash: This is getting mildly amusing. You challenge us to find 3 areas where the team has improved since the end of last season. Then you decide those areas don't count because you don't think Rivet is an improvement over a player that wasn't on our roster at the end of the season. Now, an improvement is not enough...it needs to be a vast improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Apparently they started handing out rose colored glasses to everyone on this site with their first post of the day. You all should go on believing that somehow Buffalo is vastly improved over last season. After all, ignorance of reality is bliss. And frankly if you're pointing to Lalime and Rivet and suggesting that somehow that really is a vast improvement, that shows how far gone people really are. I've been a fan for a long time and I can't recall when these two type signings would get people thinking that we truly improved from our position. And Brian Campbell comes into my analysis because we traded him last year and he thus was not playing for us and not on the roster. And in case you forgot, the team played rather poorly after his dispatch. Perhaps losing one of our best players had something to do with that. And the fact that the guy they acquired for him, whom everyone was raving about at the time, is now gone, doesn't show me much from the FO. Lalime and Rivet might be better than what we had, but the fact remains, they are not vast improvements. They are nothing more than a band aid covering a gushing head wound. :death: Believe what you want, but this FO doesn't have the reputation it does for no reason. Vast improvement. :wallbash: Pre Campbell Trade: 30-24-9 for 69 out of 126 possible points or 54.8% of 126 Post Campbell Trade: 9-7-3 for 21 out of 38 possible points or 55.2% of 38 The loss of Campbell had no impact on their record. Perhaps you forgot they played rather poorly before his dispatch. But please, don't let facts get in the way of your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Pre Campbell Trade: 30-24-9 for 69 out of 126 possible points or 54.8% of 126Post Campbell Trade: 9-7-3 for 21 out of 38 possible points or 55.2% of 38 The loss of Campbell had no impact on their record. Perhaps you forgot they played rather poorly before his dispatch. But please, don't let facts get in the way of your argument. I was just about to get in on this when you posted this. Thanks for saving me the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I was just about to get in on this when you posted this. Thanks for saving me the trouble. np! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwilli3 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 This is getting mildly amusing. You challenge us to find 3 areas where the team has improved since the end of last season. Then you decide those areas don't count because you don't think Rivet is an improvement over a player that wasn't on our roster at the end of the season. Now, an improvement is not enough...it needs to be a vast improvement. That misses the point. Would you rather have had Campbell still on the roster for say 6 mil, or have Rivet for 3.5 mil? I take Campbell, a young guy who has a ton of talent and has played well for us and is a fan favorite over a journeyman hole-plugger on D that doesn't fix the overriding problem of lack of physicality on the defensive side of the puck. If you wanted to address that, there were better options. But hey, if you think that counts as an improvement, be my guest. What tune will you whistle if we fail to bring back Pratt and/or Numminen? Will we still be "improved" on D from where we were last season? Maybe you think so, but most people who watched the games would say otherwise. And we apparently will have to agree to disagree on Lalime. You think it is a solid improvement. I think they traded one used up commodity for another who is likely to see, at most, five more games than Thibault did this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djwilli3 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Pre Campbell Trade: 30-24-9 for 69 out of 126 possible points or 54.8% of 126Post Campbell Trade: 9-7-3 for 21 out of 38 possible points or 55.2% of 38 The loss of Campbell had no impact on their record. Perhaps you forgot they played rather poorly before his dispatch. But please, don't let facts get in the way of your argument. Because record is all that matters in terms of how the team played, right? Sure, if you didn't watch the games, then it is easy to say that they were just as good or bad after Campbell left. For those of us who had to suffer through watching those 21 games and seeing how bad the D actually was without him, there was an appreciable downward dip in their play, which says a lot, because, as you pointed out, they were pretty bad most of the season up to that point. But, don't let the reality of the situation get in the way of your stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Because record is all that matters in terms of how the team played, right? Sure, if you didn't watch the games, then it is easy to say that they were just as good or bad after Campbell left. For those of us who had to suffer through watching those 21 games and seeing how bad the D actually was without him, there was an appreciable downward dip in their play, which says a lot, because, as you pointed out, they were pretty bad most of the season up to that point. But, don't let the reality of the situation get in the way of your stats. Not trying to score any great points here, but the only thing that seemed to suffer after Campbell was traded were short handed opportunities against on the PP. If anything, bringing in Sekera and Weber after Soupy left gave the D a boost 5x5. I don't think that reflects poorly on Campbell, they just needed to change it up a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 That misses the point. Would you rather have had Campbell still on the roster for say 6 mil, or have Rivet for 3.5 mil? I take Campbell, a young guy who has a ton of talent and has played well for us and is a fan favorite over a journeyman hole-plugger on D that doesn't fix the overriding problem of lack of physicality on the defensive side of the puck. If you wanted to address that, there were better options. But hey, if you think that counts as an improvement, be my guest. What tune will you whistle if we fail to bring back Pratt and/or Numminen? Will we still be "improved" on D from where we were last season? Maybe you think so, but most people who watched the games would say otherwise. And we apparently will have to agree to disagree on Lalime. You think it is a solid improvement. I think they traded one used up commodity for another who is likely to see, at most, five more games than Thibault did this year. I'm not a big fan of the Sabres off-season thus far, but I'll take Rivet at $3.5 over Campbell at anything over $4.0. I don't see Teppo/Pratt having any impact, good or bad, on this season. The Sabres success will depend on Tallinder and Lydman finding their game again. If they struggle it will set the entire defense back. I agree that Lalime is not much of a improvement if any. I fully expect Enroth to have some starts down the back stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 That misses the point. Would you rather have had Campbell still on the roster for say 6 mil, or have Rivet for 3.5 mil? I take Campbell, a young guy who has a ton of talent and has played well for us and is a fan favorite over a journeyman hole-plugger on D that doesn't fix the overriding problem of lack of physicality on the defensive side of the puck. If you wanted to address that, there were better options. But hey, if you think that counts as an improvement, be my guest. What tune will you whistle if we fail to bring back Pratt and/or Numminen? Will we still be "improved" on D from where we were last season? Maybe you think so, but most people who watched the games would say otherwise. And we apparently will have to agree to disagree on Lalime. You think it is a solid improvement. I think they traded one used up commodity for another who is likely to see, at most, five more games than Thibault did this year. I would not pay $6 million for Campbell. I think it's too much money to pay for a defenseman who has trouble in his own zone. I would definately take Rivet at $3.5 million. Rivet fills a hole that we had on roster all season last season. Additionally, , it leaves $2.5 million to spend somewhere else for the same cap hit. But again this is moot, because Campbell is signed for $7.1 million cap space, not $6 million. Contrary to what you believe, you are not the only one on the board who watches the games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I would not pay $6 million for Campbell. I think it's too much money to pay for a defenseman who has trouble in his own zone. I would definately take Rivet at $3.5 million. Rivet fills a hole that we had on roster all season last season. Additionally, , it leaves $2.5 million to spend somewhere else for the same cap hit. But again this is moot, because Campbell is signed for $7.1 million cap space, not $6 million. Contrary to what you believe, you are not the only one on the board who watches the games. :w00t: :D Campbell is water over the dam.. I wasn't happy that they didn't figure out a way to keep him. But it's done. Realistically, there was no way the Sabres were going to get to keep him unless they agreed to a King's ransom. It was pretty clear after his All Star appearance/notoriety that he was heading toward free agency (a right by the way which sometimes gets lost on this board). His stock would NEVER be higher. It would be lunacy to think he would sign for <5M. Giving a defensmen 1/8th of your payroll seems crazy to me considering you need at least six of them to play a game. The only way a defensemen might warrant 7M is if they are a cross between Pronger and Campbell. So be happy for Brian that he cashed his one and probably only ticket. I haven't jumped up and down yet on Rivet. I have only fuzzy memories of him playing in Montreal. I want to see how he goes into the corners and what decisions he makes with the puck. Can he hit a streaking forward? I like the potential though. I like his style of game and believe that the Sabres need at least one more of his ilk. I especially like his price tag and three-yr contract. I want Spezza to think twice about going into the Buffalo corners. I want Alfie to be looking over his shoulder..... I hope that Rivet brings that. Campbell sure didn't. But to be fair, that wasn't his role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdexchange Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 That misses the point. Would you rather have had Campbell still on the roster for say 6 mil, or have Rivet for 3.5 mil? Rivet at 3.5 > Campbell at 6. Without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Rivet at 3.5 > Campbell at 6. Without a doubt. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I take Campbell, a young guy who has a ton of talent and has played well for us and is a fan favorite over a journeyman hole-plugger on D that doesn't fix the overriding problem of lack of physicality on the defensive side of the puck. If you wanted to address that, there were better options. I'll agree with you on one thing... After looking at Rivet's hit totals since the trade went down, I don't think he is this "I'm going to pound your face into the boards whenever you come by me" defenseman. He'll drop the gloves a few times a year, will play physical from time to time and is an overall solid defensive defenseman. A very good 2nd pairing guy. I disagree that Rivet is a "journeyman". I also would take Rivet any day of the week at 3.5 over Campbell...even at the same salary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Rivet at 3.5 > Campbell at 6. Without a doubt. In a vacum I am not sure I agree with this ... Campbell brings a rare skillset, and if you have the other defensemen to complement him and cover for him, he can be a real difference-maker. Anyone, in any industry, who has a rare skill is going to be paid a premium. Campbell is not the perfect defenseman but he is not the enormous liability he is being made out to be by some. He's just very average in his own end. On the current Sabres roster, however, there was not only a bigger need for a Rivet-like player but other players (Miller, Pominville) who need to be paid more starting next year ... given that set of circumstances, I like Rivet at $3.5 million more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
X. Benedict Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 :w00t: :D I haven't jumped up and down yet on Rivet. I have only fuzzy memories of him playing in Montreal. Most of the time he was the sacrificial lamb when Souray got caught up ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spndnchz Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 I'm not a big fan of the Sabres off-season thus far, but I'll take Rivet at $3.5 PLUS A 1st ROUNDER over Campbell at anything over $4.0. I don't see Teppo/Pratt having any impact, good or bad, on this season. The Sabres success will depend on Tallinder and Lydman finding their game again. If they struggle it will set the entire defense back. I agree that Lalime is not much of a improvement if any. I fully expect Enroth to have some starts down the back stretch. fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneGibbous Posted July 10, 2008 Report Share Posted July 10, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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