Motor City Method - By Ken Holland

[nobody]

I haven't seen the full article from The Hockey News listed here. I found a version of it at:

 

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/07/ju...e_agency_k.html

 

I've copied the info here. Mods, please delete the text below if you want.

 

 

 

July 1, The Hockey News: Motor City Method

The Red Wings' GM Shares Detroit's Nine Secrets to Stanley Cup Success

 

By Ken Holland (Edited by Mike Brophy)

 

There is no greater feeling than winning the Stanley Cup. It represents the culmination of years of hard work, it justifies all the tough decisions that had to be made along the way--and it strengthens the trust and bond between the people who made those decisions.

 

There is no set formula for building a winner, but over the years, we in the Detroit Red Wings organization have come up with what we consider a pretty trustworthy guideline. We're no different than any over the other 29 NHL teams in that we are always searching for ways to be better, but there are some areas of operation which we have learned not to tinker with too much. We have learned to trust the decisions we made in the past that led us to the ultimate success.

 

Here are nine important elements of our success:

 

1. Good People: My philosophy is to find the very best people you can. When I'm confident we have the right people working for us, it makes it easy for me to get out of the way and let them do their thing. There is a trust and bond with the people in our organization, an understanding we are all working for the same result: the Stanley Cup. My feeling is, it's hard enough to let somebody go if you're winning. I also think if you win enough and somebody does take your job, then there will be other opportunities for you.

 

THe only thing that matters to me is winning and I believe we have a lot of people in our organization who share that sentiment. Our assistant GM Jim Nill does such a great job that any time another GM Job opens up, I get calls from teams asking for permission to speak to him.

 

Our management group also includes Steve Yzerman, Scotty Bowman, and Jim Devellano. It's all about the team and if we can find a way to enjoy success, then we all get our just rewards.

 

When I became GM in 1997, our scouts might have worried I'd stick my nose in too much. That didn't happen. You either watch 150 games or don't get involved. I choose to let others do the majority of the legwork. Jim Nill runs our amateur draft with help from (director of European scouting) Hakan Andersson and (director of amateur scouting) Joe McDonnell. They are the key decision-makers and run the draft. When I go to see amateur games or world junior games, I may write a note and give it to Jim, mentioning what I thought about a player or two, but he knows if he wants to, he can throw my note in the garbage. I point out what I have seen and what my opinion is, just like a scout would, but ultimately it comes down to what our scouts think.

 

Mike Babcock is the coach and he makes the coaching decisions. When I travel with the team, I may approach Mike after a game and say, "I liked this player," or "I didn't like that player," or "Why did we do this on the penalty kill?" I'm always going to ask questions and give my opinion, but ultimately it comes down to Mike's decisions. He's the coach...he's the boss...I've got to support him.

 

Everybody has their duties and my job is to make sure we have top people running those specific areas. I have to make sure they have all the necessary tools and support so they can do their jobs to the best of their ability.

 

I like to go out and keep tabs on the players we've drafted and signed. Jim runs our AHL affiliate in Grand Rapids, but I like to go down there 10 or 12 times a season to get an idea of how far those guys are from playing with us.I go to the world junior tournament to see our kids there. I saw Brendan Smith, our first round pick who plays for Wisconsin, when the Badgers played at Michigan and Michigan State.

 

At the trade deadline we gather with our pro scouts and talk about what we need and get their opinions of the players we might like to pursue. Ultimately I make the final decision, but that decision is based on the input I get from our people.

 

It's the same for our players. Guys like Nicklas Lidstrom, Henrik Zetterberg and Pavel Datsyuk don't have big egos. They understand they have a job to do and by doing their jobs to the best of their ability, it enhances the chance for our team to be successful as a whole.

 

2. Players Learn from Other Players: In my opinion, when Scotty Bowman arrived as the coach in 1993 and asked Steve Yzerman to go from being a great offensive player to a great two-way player, it set the tone for the organization moving forward. Steve sacrificed offense to become a better faceoff man, shot-blocker and defensive forward. When guys saw that, they couldn't help but fall in line.

 

In 2002 we brought Zetterberg over from Europe to watch some playoff games and he said his favorite players were Igor Larionov and Steve Yzerman, then two of our key veterans. I decided it was important to keep Larionov for another year or two, even though he was coming to the end of the line. Coaches can teach players only so much, but they can also learn a lot from veteran players. People look at our team and say we're old, but we're old for a reason. Those guys serve a purpose in our organization. They are there to guide our young players. I'd like to think when an older player is done here, he's done.

 

3. Uncovering Draft Gems: We've been very successful in acquiring impact players late in the draft. Part of it is luck, but the question is, why are we so lucky? We put an emphasis on skills and hockey sense. We don't put an emphasis on size. If you look at Darren Helm, Zetterberg or Valtteri Filppula, they were all weak little kids, but they had hockey sense. We knew that they would get strong with time. They were all world junior-type players. Not all of our picks pan out, but the ones that do have skills and good hockey sense.

 

Also, because our team is good, we don't have to rush players. Filppula was a regular in the Finnish League and when he came over, we put him in the AHL for a year. He had a good rookie season there and the next year he makes it as a regular with our team. You only make our team when you're ready. You don't make it just because you were a second round draft pick and you have entitlement. You make our team because you are ready to play.

 

Because we like skill, when a player joins our team, skill plays with skill. In the end, we obviously got tremendously lucky with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. They are superstars. Sometimes you get lucky with one; we got lucky with two. I said all along if you write donw the best 10 forwards in the league, and even if you shrink the list to five, we have two of them. And on top of that, we have Lidstrom--the best defenseman.

 

4. On-Ice Discipline: People always say other teams mimic the one that wins the Stanley Cup and, on one level, there is some truth to that. Anaheim won the Cup last year and was a very physical team. But I think too much accent was put on the Ducks' physical play; they were also a very highly skilled team.

 

I can remember two or three times, and as recently as when we lost to Edmonton in the first round two years ago, sitting in Jim Nill's office with the two of us thinking out loud, wondering if we needed to get bigger and tougher. You analyze what went wrong and what you might do differently if you had the chance. You wonder about your team philosophy and in the end we decided we are who we are--let's stick with our philosophy because we believe in it. Our philosophy is skill and puck possession. That is no secret. We try to have four lines of skilled players with a puck-moving defense. Let's stick to the program.

 

After the work stoppage we brought Babcock in as our coach and we got 124 points, but lost in the first round of the playoffs. The temptation to change your philosophy is always there when you lose.

 

It gnaws away at you.

 

You wonder, "Are we good enough? Are we big enough?"

 

But if you look at the Edmonton series, we didn't lose because the Oilers were deeper or stronger than we were. We lost because their goalie played great and we had some key injuries. We also had some guys like Dan Cleary, Johan Franzen, Niklas Kronwall, Brett Lebda, Val Filppula--eight or nine guys--who had never been in the playoffs before.

 

Ultimately, we decided to stick to the program.

 

Mike Babcock did the same thing this year when we got up 3-0 against Dallas and then lost Games 4 and 5. Do you tinker with the lines or make lineup changes? Ultimately, we stick to the program.

 

5. Puck Possession: The first thing about puck possession is you need to have skill. Puck possession works for us because of our defense. With Lidstrom, Brian Rafalski and Kronwall, we obviously have guys who can control the game. Lebda can skate and handle the puck. Andreas Lilja can make a pass...Chris Chelios can make a pass. Then we pick up Brad Stuart at the trade deadline and he was a perfect fit for us.

 

When I hired Mike Babcock, he came in during August of '05 and he watched our playoff series against Calgary in '04 when we lost out in the second round. He thought we needed to chip-and-chase more and felt they clogged us up in the neutral zone too often. I told him I disagreed. Mike believed in the chip-and-chase game; I'm a puck possession guy.

 

After much discussion, he still felt he wanted to go to training camp and get the puck to holes and put pressure on the puck. Chip-and-chase.

 

We get to training camp with 60 guys that we break into three teams for scrimmage purposes and when the puck gets dropped, somebody wins it back to Lidstrom who fires it over to this guy and this guy fires it over to that guy and that guy plays it up to that guy. Our players do what they do; they just start playing with the puck. It becomes clear very quickly what kind of team we are.

 

Pretty soon if I mention a chip-and-chase player to Mike, he doesn't want to hear about the guy. Our defense is we hang onto the puck. When we have the puck you are going to have to work really hard to get it back because we're not just going to give it to you.

 

It started with the Russian Five in the '90's and it has worked for us.

 

That's why I don't believe in overhauling the team. If you move out a bunch of guys and bring in new players, you have to find a new philosophy. We look for players that we think will be able to play within our system.

 

Because we like to roll four lines with skill, we look for a certain type of player. Other than Zetterberg and Datsyuk, nobody really wows you. But we get guys who are capable of chipping in on offense. Some teams play a fourth line that you know they can put out all winter and they're not going to score a point. They're big and strong and they might fight, but they won't score. We want some goals out of the fourth line. Because our defense gets the puck and moves it up and we like to hang onto the puck, we need guys up front who can do something when the puck comes to them. If you attack the other team's net enough, sooner or later the puck has to go in.

 

6. Ownership: Mike Ilitch. I talk to all our people and when I want something, I go to Mr. Ilitch and--boom!--it's done. I don't have to appeal to a group of owners like some GM's; just one person.

 

Mr. Ilitch makes sure we have what we deem necessary for our team to have the best chance to be successful. For instance, our team has a private plane. Our players are fed very well on the plane. Being based in the East, but playing in the Western Conference, it's important our players are comfortable with all the travel.

 

Mr. Ilitch will always do what he can to make newcomers feel comfortable. When I joined the Wings in 1994 as the assistant GM, my wife told Jim Devellano, "We're coming, but we want our children to attend a private Catholic school." Mr. Ilitch made some calls to some private Catholic schools that were already full and our daughters got in.

 

We flew two private planes to the final game in Pittsburgh because we wanted to include staff and family in what turned out to be the deciding game. Mike Ilitch made that happen. I don't recall him ever saying no to anything I have requested. It's about trying to treat all the people in our organization first-class.

 

7. Salary Cap: We have a capologist, but working with a budget is also my strength. I like numbers. I was a goalie--you're always working out your goals-against average.

 

Even when you go back to the days when there was no salary cap, the way we built it then is no different than now. In '01-02 we had seven or eight high-profile guys and then we looked for support players. Steve Duchesne was looking for work so we brought him in. Then we brought in Jason Woolley. Quality guys. We drafted Pavel Datsyuk and he joined us. We made a pitch for Boyd Devereaux. It is important to supplement your quality top players with quality depth players.

 

I don't think team-building is any different except the guys who used to make $10 million a year now make $7 million a year. I read a book called The Blueprint, about the NFL's New England Patriots, who to me are the best team in the world at managing the cap. I learned from the book. The Patriots have a lot of above-average players to go with a core of players they draft and develop, and they have a handful of superstars.

 

I won't put big money into defenders, guys who only defend. There are guys out there who make millions of dollars that strictly defend. We don't believe doing that gives you bang for your buck.

 

I was a minor league goalie, so I really appreciate defense. In 1999, when we were trying to go for a three-peat, we basically cleaned out a draft bringing in experienced players: Chris Chelios, Wendel Clark, Ulf Samuelsson, and Bill Ranford. We lost in the second round and over the next six to 12 months, when Jim Nill and I would go for lunch, we'd talk about team defense. I told him when we lose Yzerman, (Brendan) Shanahan and (Sergei) Fedorov, we can stay competitive by being good on defense. Over the past few years we placed a huge priority on signing and drafting defensemen. You can't have enough defensemen.

 

I'll put big money into the goal position if I have one of the top five in the game and I'll build my team around that guy, but we haven't had one of the top five guys since 2001-2002 when we had Dominik Hasek in his prime. Our feeling is, have solid goaltending. If another team pays $4-5 million a year for a goalie, we'll pay $1-1.5 million a year and sink the rest of our money into defense. Chris Osgood and Hasek were good enough for us that if we play good team defense, they'll help us win games.

 

8. Reclamation Projects: We are always on the lookout for players who have attained a level of success, but might be a bit down on their luck or are looking for another opportunity. In that regard, we were fortunate to get the likes of Osgood, Stuart, Cleary and Darren McCarty among others, who helped us win the Cup this season.

 

Some of the players we already knew. Stuart, for example, I met through my involvement with Team Canada at the World Championships two years ago when I was the GM. He was a quiet kid who played very well.

 

the thing is to try to put people in a position where they can succeed. In basketball they have what they call the sixth man. Well, we have what we call the seventh forward--and that's Cleary. He is a very valuable player for us; able to move up and play on one of our top two lines or he can play on the checking line. He's one of the best seventh forwards in hockey.

 

9. Patience: Patience is something you hopefully learn over time. We've done that at the coaching and management levels, and it is something we expect our players to learn, too.

 

When we were playing Nashville in the first round and we'd be sitting in the suite watching the games with the Black Aces--the kids who are on the cusp of joining our team in the near future--and I'd lean over to defenseman Jonathan Ericsson and whisper in his ear, "You notice Lidstrom doesn't do too much? He doesn't overextend himself?" Players are obviously going to make mistakes, but not the big boo-boos where you try to force the puck from the corner to the far blueline that gets intercepted and then they come back at you on a 3-on-2 or 2-on-1.

 

Over the past 10 years I'll stand by the philosophy that has helped make us a success. We have won six Presidents' Trophies, four Stanley Cups, we've had eight consecutive 100-point seasons. We lost in the first round three times in 13 years, but we've gone to the final four seven times in 13 years and to the Stanley Cup final five times in 13 years.

 

I just think the philosophy seems to be working. Next year we could lose in the first round because we're out of energy, but judge us on five years; not on one year.

[SabresOnTheWarpath]

I'll put big money into the goal position if I have one of the top five in the game and I'll build my team around that guy, but we haven't had one of the top five guys since 2001-2002 when we had Dominik Hasek in his prime. Our feeling is, have solid goaltending. If another team pays $4-5 million a year for a goalie, we'll pay $1-1.5 million a year and sink the rest of our money into defense. Chris Osgood and Hasek were good enough for us that if we play good team defense, they'll help us win games.

 

someone should send this to Darcy

[PASabreFan]

Good stuff. Why does he want to share his "secrets"? :)

 

We could work on number 5. Our defense especially just throws the puck around the ice like it's a radioactive turd. Forget that it doesn't make good hockey sense (see the emphasis the Wings put on possession), but it also looks TERRIBLE from a fan point of view. For all the talk about how the post lockout Sabres would sell hockey to the fans, it's pretty awful to watch, if you ask me, and nobody did.

 

This one was interesting too, in the context of the Miller situation:

 

"I'll put big money into the goal position if I have one of the top five in the game and I'll build my team around that guy, but we haven't had one of the top five guys since 2001-2002 when we had Dominik Hasek in his prime. Our feeling is, have solid goaltending. If another team pays $4-5 million a year for a goalie, we'll pay $1-1.5 million a year and sink the rest of our money into defense. Chris Osgood and Hasek were good enough for us that if we play good team defense, they'll help us win games."

 

So we're going to pretty much stand-pat on a mediocre defense (happy, BM?) and then overpay for a slightly above average goalie who has shown some weaknesses when the team in front of him plays pond hockey?

[X. Benedict]

Nice find.

[SabresFan526]

Great post! That's a great read. I really enjoyed it and learned a lot. I think Ken Holland is one of if not the best GMs in the NHL. I've always felt that way. The one glaring difference that I've noticed between the Sabres and the Wings is that the Wings are willing to take some risks by investing money if they absolutely feel the guy is the right guy for their team. Rafalski is the example. Also, they will do whatever it takes to keep their key guys and make them happy. Lidstrom is the example here as he has never played for any other team. Overall, I think their method is the right one, and I'm hoping guys like Pominville and Roy become our Datsyuk and Zetterberg. Maybe 10 years from now Sekera will be our Lidstrom. But what the Sabres have not been good at so far is keeping these guys here and never letting them go, which the Wings have been very good at in terms of keeping their core players together. Thanks for sharing this.

[carpandean]

To quote Mel Gibson in the Patriot:

 

I've just been in the mind of a genius. [Holland] knows more about [hockey] than we could hope to learn in a dozen lifetimes.

[Ghost of Dwight Drane]

I think the Sabres follow the EXACT same blueprint. The difference is, if you are all skill and no heart, you won't get it done. I like the part where he says the coach stopped harping on a dump-n-chase when he could see how skilled his team was at moving the puck around. Problem is, if these guys get run, they will stick up for themselves. There are also veteran guys around to learn from. Darcy/Lindy try to create leadership and heart from within, and it hasn't worked. Getting a guy like Rivet is a start, but I wish they were bright enough to get 2 Rivets and a McCarthy/Draper 2 years ago and we could have finished the thing off.

 

To me, this is justification for Darcy to sit back, feel good and say..."Well, Detroit's doing it!"

[nfreeman]

Great article. Thanks. Here are the points that struck me the most:

 

2. Players Learn from Other Players: In my opinion, when Scotty Bowman arrived as the coach in 1993 and asked Steve Yzerman to go from being a great offensive player to a great two-way player, it set the tone for the organization moving forward. Steve sacrificed offense to become a better faceoff man, shot-blocker and defensive forward. When guys saw that, they couldn't help but fall in line.

 

In 2002 we brought Zetterberg over from Europe to watch some playoff games and he said his favorite players were Igor Larionov and Steve Yzerman, then two of our key veterans. I decided it was important to keep Larionov for another year or two, even though he was coming to the end of the line. Coaches can teach players only so much, but they can also learn a lot from veteran players. People look at our team and say we're old, but we're old for a reason. Those guys serve a purpose in our organization. They are there to guide our young players. I'd like to think when an older player is done here, he's done.

 

5. Puck Possession: ... Because we like to roll four lines with skill, we look for a certain type of player. Other than Zetterberg and Datsyuk, nobody really wows you. But we get guys who are capable of chipping in on offense. Some teams play a fourth line that you know they can put out all winter and they're not going to score a point. They're big and strong and they might fight, but they won't score. We want some goals out of the fourth line. Because our defense gets the puck and moves it up and we like to hang onto the puck, we need guys up front who can do something when the puck comes to them. If you attack the other team's net enough, sooner or later the puck has to go in.

 

Lessons for our team: veteran leadership is important (get us that veteran center we need, Darcy!), and there's nothing wrong with trying to roll 4 lines that can score (this is directed more at those posters here that want the traditional top line/2nd line/checking line/energy line).

[SabresFan526]

Great article. Thanks. Here are the points that struck me the most:

Lessons for our team: veteran leadership is important (get us that veteran center we need, Darcy!), and there's nothing wrong with trying to roll 4 lines that can score (this is directed more at those posters here that want the traditional top line/2nd line/checking line/energy line).

Agreed. I'm also hoping for that second line centerman. I also agree that the Sabres do not need to be a traditional forward team. Why can't all 4 lines contribute offensively? It's what served us well for two years coming out of the lockout and the Red Wings just won the Cup with that same system. Why should we change? I still think we should have one line that plays against the other team's top line that is defensively responsible, but Detroit has proven that it can be your top scorers who are also defensively responsible. Look at the guys they've had like Yzerman, Federov, Shanahan and now Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Just because you are a good offensive player does not excuse you from playing defense. This is why I feel like losing Drury was such a huge void for the Sabres to overcome and I still don't feel like they have effectively replaced him.

[djwilli3]

If that was a blueprint for successs in today's NHL, and based on Detroit's success it certainly seems to be, we are missing quite a few of those things. Most of them dealing with how we approach the cap situation. Too bad our FO hasn't taken the approach to paying players that the staff in Detroit has.

[tom webster]

I haven't seen the full article from The Hockey News listed here. I found a version of it at:

 

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2008/07/ju...e_agency_k.html

 

I've copied the info here. Mods, please delete the text below if you want.

July 1, The Hockey News: Motor City Method

The Red Wings' GM Shares Detroit's Nine Secrets to Stanley Cup Success

 

By Ken Holland (Edited by Mike Brophy)

 

There is no greater feeling than winning the Stanley Cup. It represents the culmination of years of hard work, it justifies all the tough decisions that had to be made along the way--and it strengthens the trust and bond between the people who made those decisions.

 

There is no set formula for building a winner, but over the years, we in the Detroit Red Wings organization have come up with what we consider a pretty trustworthy guideline. We're no different than any over the other 29 NHL teams in that we are always searching for ways to be better, but there are some areas of operation which we have learned not to tinker with too much. We have learned to trust the decisions we made in the past that led us to the ultimate success.

 

Here are nine important elements of our success:

 

1. Good People: My philosophy is to find the very best people you can. When I'm confident we have the right people working for us, it makes it easy for me to get out of the way and let them do their thing. There is a trust and bond with the people in our organization, an understanding we are all working for the same result: the Stanley Cup. My feeling is, it's hard enough to let somebody go if you're winning. I also think if you win enough and somebody does take your job, then there will be other opportunities for you.

 

THe only thing that matters to me is winning and I believe we have a lot of people in our organization who share that sentiment. Our assistant GM Jim Nill does such a great job that any time another GM Job opens up, I get calls from teams asking for permission to speak to him.

 

Our management group also includes Steve Yzerman, Scotty Bowman, and Jim Devellano. It's all about the team and if we can find a way to enjoy success, then we all get our just rewards.

 

When I became GM in 1997, our scouts might have worried I'd stick my nose in too much. That didn't happen. You either watch 150 games or don't get involved. I choose to let others do the majority of the legwork. Jim Nill runs our amateur draft with help from (director of European scouting) Hakan Andersson and (director of amateur scouting) Joe McDonnell. They are the key decision-makers and run the draft. When I go to see amateur games or world junior games, I may write a note and give it to Jim, mentioning what I thought about a player or two, but he knows if he wants to, he can throw my note in the garbage. I point out what I have seen and what my opinion is, just like a scout would, but ultimately it comes down to what our scouts think.

 

Mike Babcock is the coach and he makes the coaching decisions. When I travel with the team, I may approach Mike after a game and say, "I liked this player," or "I didn't like that player," or "Why did we do this on the penalty kill?" I'm always going to ask questions and give my opinion, but ultimately it comes down to Mike's decisions. He's the coach...he's the boss...I've got to support him.

 

Everybody has their duties and my job is to make sure we have top people running those specific areas. I have to make sure they have all the necessary tools and support so they can do their jobs to the best of their ability.

 

I like to go out and keep tabs on the players we've drafted and signed. Jim runs our AHL affiliate in Grand Rapids, but I like to go down there 10 or 12 times a season to get an idea of how far those guys are from playing with us.I go to the world junior tournament to see our kids there. I saw Brendan Smith, our first round pick who plays for Wisconsin, when the Badgers played at Michigan and Michigan State.

 

At the trade deadline we gather with our pro scouts and talk about what we need and get their opinions of the players we might like to pursue. Ultimately I make the final decision, but that decision is based on the input I get from our people.

 

It's the same for our players. Guys like Nicklas Lidstrom, Henrik Zetterberg and Pavel Datsyuk don't have big egos. They understand they have a job to do and by doing their jobs to the best of their ability, it enhances the chance for our team to be successful as a whole.

 

2. Players Learn from Other Players: In my opinion, when Scotty Bowman arrived as the coach in 1993 and asked Steve Yzerman to go from being a great offensive player to a great two-way player, it set the tone for the organization moving forward. Steve sacrificed offense to become a better faceoff man, shot-blocker and defensive forward. When guys saw that, they couldn't help but fall in line.

 

In 2002 we brought Zetterberg over from Europe to watch some playoff games and he said his favorite players were Igor Larionov and Steve Yzerman, then two of our key veterans. I decided it was important to keep Larionov for another year or two, even though he was coming to the end of the line. Coaches can teach players only so much, but they can also learn a lot from veteran players. People look at our team and say we're old, but we're old for a reason. Those guys serve a purpose in our organization. They are there to guide our young players. I'd like to think when an older player is done here, he's done.

 

3. Uncovering Draft Gems: We've been very successful in acquiring impact players late in the draft. Part of it is luck, but the question is, why are we so lucky? We put an emphasis on skills and hockey sense. We don't put an emphasis on size. If you look at Darren Helm, Zetterberg or Valtteri Filppula, they were all weak little kids, but they had hockey sense. We knew that they would get strong with time. They were all world junior-type players. Not all of our picks pan out, but the ones that do have skills and good hockey sense.

 

Also, because our team is good, we don't have to rush players. Filppula was a regular in the Finnish League and when he came over, we put him in the AHL for a year. He had a good rookie season there and the next year he makes it as a regular with our team. You only make our team when you're ready. You don't make it just because you were a second round draft pick and you have entitlement. You make our team because you are ready to play.

 

Because we like skill, when a player joins our team, skill plays with skill. In the end, we obviously got tremendously lucky with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. They are superstars. Sometimes you get lucky with one; we got lucky with two. I said all along if you write donw the best 10 forwards in the league, and even if you shrink the list to five, we have two of them. And on top of that, we have Lidstrom--the best defenseman.

 

4. On-Ice Discipline: People always say other teams mimic the one that wins the Stanley Cup and, on one level, there is some truth to that. Anaheim won the Cup last year and was a very physical team. But I think too much accent was put on the Ducks' physical play; they were also a very highly skilled team.

 

I can remember two or three times, and as recently as when we lost to Edmonton in the first round two years ago, sitting in Jim Nill's office with the two of us thinking out loud, wondering if we needed to get bigger and tougher. You analyze what went wrong and what you might do differently if you had the chance. You wonder about your team philosophy and in the end we decided we are who we are--let's stick with our philosophy because we believe in it. Our philosophy is skill and puck possession. That is no secret. We try to have four lines of skilled players with a puck-moving defense. Let's stick to the program.

 

After the work stoppage we brought Babcock in as our coach and we got 124 points, but lost in the first round of the playoffs. The temptation to change your philosophy is always there when you lose.

 

It gnaws away at you.

 

 

 

So, since this is the same thing Schoop started his show with, is Nobody Mike??

 

You wonder, "Are we good enough? Are we big enough?"

 

But if you look at the Edmonton series, we didn't lose because the Oilers were deeper or stronger than we were. We lost because their goalie played great and we had some key injuries. We also had some guys like Dan Cleary, Johan Franzen, Niklas Kronwall, Brett Lebda, Val Filppula--eight or nine guys--who had never been in the playoffs before.

 

Ultimately, we decided to stick to the program.

 

Mike Babcock did the same thing this year when we got up 3-0 against Dallas and then lost Games 4 and 5. Do you tinker with the lines or make lineup changes? Ultimately, we stick to the program.

 

5. Puck Possession: The first thing about puck possession is you need to have skill. Puck possession works for us because of our defense. With Lidstrom, Brian Rafalski and Kronwall, we obviously have guys who can control the game. Lebda can skate and handle the puck. Andreas Lilja can make a pass...Chris Chelios can make a pass. Then we pick up Brad Stuart at the trade deadline and he was a perfect fit for us.

 

When I hired Mike Babcock, he came in during August of '05 and he watched our playoff series against Calgary in '04 when we lost out in the second round. He thought we needed to chip-and-chase more and felt they clogged us up in the neutral zone too often. I told him I disagreed. Mike believed in the chip-and-chase game; I'm a puck possession guy.

 

After much discussion, he still felt he wanted to go to training camp and get the puck to holes and put pressure on the puck. Chip-and-chase.

 

We get to training camp with 60 guys that we break into three teams for scrimmage purposes and when the puck gets dropped, somebody wins it back to Lidstrom who fires it over to this guy and this guy fires it over to that guy and that guy plays it up to that guy. Our players do what they do; they just start playing with the puck. It becomes clear very quickly what kind of team we are.

 

Pretty soon if I mention a chip-and-chase player to Mike, he doesn't want to hear about the guy. Our defense is we hang onto the puck. When we have the puck you are going to have to work really hard to get it back because we're not just going to give it to you.

 

It started with the Russian Five in the '90's and it has worked for us.

 

That's why I don't believe in overhauling the team. If you move out a bunch of guys and bring in new players, you have to find a new philosophy. We look for players that we think will be able to play within our system.

 

Because we like to roll four lines with skill, we look for a certain type of player. Other than Zetterberg and Datsyuk, nobody really wows you. But we get guys who are capable of chipping in on offense. Some teams play a fourth line that you know they can put out all winter and they're not going to score a point. They're big and strong and they might fight, but they won't score. We want some goals out of the fourth line. Because our defense gets the puck and moves it up and we like to hang onto the puck, we need guys up front who can do something when the puck comes to them. If you attack the other team's net enough, sooner or later the puck has to go in.

 

6. Ownership: Mike Ilitch. I talk to all our people and when I want something, I go to Mr. Ilitch and--boom!--it's done. I don't have to appeal to a group of owners like some GM's; just one person.

 

Mr. Ilitch makes sure we have what we deem necessary for our team to have the best chance to be successful. For instance, our team has a private plane. Our players are fed very well on the plane. Being based in the East, but playing in the Western Conference, it's important our players are comfortable with all the travel.

 

Mr. Ilitch will always do what he can to make newcomers feel comfortable. When I joined the Wings in 1994 as the assistant GM, my wife told Jim Devellano, "We're coming, but we want our children to attend a private Catholic school." Mr. Ilitch made some calls to some private Catholic schools that were already full and our daughters got in.

 

We flew two private planes to the final game in Pittsburgh because we wanted to include staff and family in what turned out to be the deciding game. Mike Ilitch made that happen. I don't recall him ever saying no to anything I have requested. It's about trying to treat all the people in our organization first-class.

 

7. Salary Cap: We have a capologist, but working with a budget is also my strength. I like numbers. I was a goalie--you're always working out your goals-against average.

 

Even when you go back to the days when there was no salary cap, the way we built it then is no different than now. In '01-02 we had seven or eight high-profile guys and then we looked for support players. Steve Duchesne was looking for work so we brought him in. Then we brought in Jason Woolley. Quality guys. We drafted Pavel Datsyuk and he joined us. We made a pitch for Boyd Devereaux. It is important to supplement your quality top players with quality depth players.

 

I don't think team-building is any different except the guys who used to make $10 million a year now make $7 million a year. I read a book called The Blueprint, about the NFL's New England Patriots, who to me are the best team in the world at managing the cap. I learned from the book. The Patriots have a lot of above-average players to go with a core of players they draft and develop, and they have a handful of superstars.

 

I won't put big money into defenders, guys who only defend. There are guys out there who make millions of dollars that strictly defend. We don't believe doing that gives you bang for your buck.

 

I was a minor league goalie, so I really appreciate defense. In 1999, when we were trying to go for a three-peat, we basically cleaned out a draft bringing in experienced players: Chris Chelios, Wendel Clark, Ulf Samuelsson, and Bill Ranford. We lost in the second round and over the next six to 12 months, when Jim Nill and I would go for lunch, we'd talk about team defense. I told him when we lose Yzerman, (Brendan) Shanahan and (Sergei) Fedorov, we can stay competitive by being good on defense. Over the past few years we placed a huge priority on signing and drafting defensemen. You can't have enough defensemen.

 

I'll put big money into the goal position if I have one of the top five in the game and I'll build my team around that guy, but we haven't had one of the top five guys since 2001-2002 when we had Dominik Hasek in his prime. Our feeling is, have solid goaltending. If another team pays $4-5 million a year for a goalie, we'll pay $1-1.5 million a year and sink the rest of our money into defense. Chris Osgood and Hasek were good enough for us that if we play good team defense, they'll help us win games.

 

8. Reclamation Projects: We are always on the lookout for players who have attained a level of success, but might be a bit down on their luck or are looking for another opportunity. In that regard, we were fortunate to get the likes of Osgood, Stuart, Cleary and Darren McCarty among others, who helped us win the Cup this season.

 

Some of the players we already knew. Stuart, for example, I met through my involvement with Team Canada at the World Championships two years ago when I was the GM. He was a quiet kid who played very well.

 

the thing is to try to put people in a position where they can succeed. In basketball they have what they call the sixth man. Well, we have what we call the seventh forward--and that's Cleary. He is a very valuable player for us; able to move up and play on one of our top two lines or he can play on the checking line. He's one of the best seventh forwards in hockey.

 

9. Patience: Patience is something you hopefully learn over time. We've done that at the coaching and management levels, and it is something we expect our players to learn, too.

 

When we were playing Nashville in the first round and we'd be sitting in the suite watching the games with the Black Aces--the kids who are on the cusp of joining our team in the near future--and I'd lean over to defenseman Jonathan Ericsson and whisper in his ear, "You notice Lidstrom doesn't do too much? He doesn't overextend himself?" Players are obviously going to make mistakes, but not the big boo-boos where you try to force the puck from the corner to the far blueline that gets intercepted and then they come back at you on a 3-on-2 or 2-on-1.

 

Over the past 10 years I'll stand by the philosophy that has helped make us a success. We have won six Presidents' Trophies, four Stanley Cups, we've had eight consecutive 100-point seasons. We lost in the first round three times in 13 years, but we've gone to the final four seven times in 13 years and to the Stanley Cup final five times in 13 years.

 

I just think the philosophy seems to be working. Next year we could lose in the first round because we're out of energy, but judge us on five years; not on one year.

[tom webster]

Let's try that again.

 

Since Schoop started his show with this story, are nobody and schoop the same person???

 

Seriously,

 

One thing Holland didn't mention is the amount of money that Detroit spends on consultants and vice-presidents.

[SabresFan526]

Let's try that again.

 

Since Schoop started his show with this story, are nobody and schoop the same person???

 

Seriously,

 

One thing Holland didn't mention is the amount of money that Detroit spends on consultants and vice-presidents.

I would go a bit further than the statement you made there. I'm not sure how much they spend on consultants and VPs is a good indication of anything because for all we know it could be a bunch of people with big titles who do absolutely nothing within the organization (not too different for most of the companies I have ever worked with in my consulting career). What I think really drives your point home is how much they spend on scouting. They have the largest scouting department in the entire NHL. They find guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Holmstrom, Helm, Franzen, etc. all with very late round picks as they are usually pretty good and make the most of every single one of their drafts. This year was no exception as in my opinion, they drafted the best goalie prospect in this year's draft in Thomas McCollum with the last pick in the first round. They really spend a lot of money on their scouting department to go out and find guys who will contribute to their type of system and they find them very late in the draft as well.

[rbochan]

I'd also image that their scouts don't look like this:

 

 

[Two or less]

I think it's BS. Half the stuff he wrote is common sense stuff. The real reason they win is because they demand winning. Fans demand it. Coaches demand it. And when it all fails, they just look down the hallway and see Yzerman and Bowman, legends in the sport, and they demand winning.

 

Second of all, they keep winning because they have great scouts and they pick gems all the time in drafts. Zetterberg and Datysuk get selected by anyone else in any previous round, Ken Holland's theory goes out the window.

[bottlecap]

I think it's BS. Half the stuff he wrote is common sense stuff. The real reason they win is because they demand winning. Fans demand it. Coaches demand it. And when it all fails, they just look down the hallway and see Yzerman and Bowman, legends in the sport, and they demand winning.

 

Common sense isn't common. You need quality guys from top to bottom. We had Bowman coaching here and yet we couldn't get him enough quality guys to finish the job. I think ultimately it starts with the owner and we've had good-very good (but not great) owners and that's reflected in the teams.

[BetweenThePipes00]

Common sense isn't common. You need quality guys from top to bottom. We had Bowman coaching here and yet we couldn't get him enough quality guys to finish the job. I think ultimately it starts with the owner and we've had good-very good (but not great) owners and that's reflected in the teams.

That's just flat out not true ... Bowman was the GM and had 100% control of every personel move when he was in Buffalo ... he could never make up his mind if he wanted to coach or not and spent a good chunk of his time scouting in Europe to find gems like Timo Jutila and Jiri Dudacek .... He learned from all the mistakes he made as Sabres GM, I'll give him that.

[nobody]

Let's try that again.

 

Since Schoop started his show with this story, are nobody and schoop the same person???

 

Seriously,

 

One thing Holland didn't mention is the amount of money that Detroit spends on consultants and vice-presidents.

 

 

Schoop would never call himself nobody! But I did hear about this story from his show and then tried to find it.

 

The one big thing that is different between a team like the Sabres and the Red Wings is the money they spend not related to the salary cap. Detroit and Buffalo had pretty much the same cap number but you know (I can't prove the number - I tried searching) Detroit spent a lot more money overall on their entire team budget.

[R_Dudley]

Schoop would never call himself nobody! But I did hear about this story from his show and then tried to find it.

 

The one big thing that is different between a team like the Sabres and the Red Wings is the money they spend not related to the salary cap. Detroit and Buffalo had pretty much the same cap number but you know (I can't prove the number - I tried searching) Detroit spent a lot more money overall on their entire team budget.

 

Great article .... :thumbsup:

 

Bold above pretty much my read on where we differ as well however there is no real way I can see to compare apples to apples per say. I think you have to infer it from the quantity and quality of the people they employ and keep over time especially if they are really being looked at by other teams. Kind of a market driven salaries for FO just like the market for the player's.

[Two or less]

Common sense isn't common. You need quality guys from top to bottom. We had Bowman coaching here and yet we couldn't get him enough quality guys to finish the job. I think ultimately it starts with the owner and we've had good-very good (but not great) owners and that's reflected in the teams.

 

And that goes to pretty much all the Championship teams. Not just Ken Holland's Red Wings.