Young Team, Dumb Team?

[Bmwolf21]

Sabres Edge Blog

 

Lindy Ruff today angrily disputed the notion that his players are tuning out his words and his system. If the Sabres really have stopped listening to the coach, as some theorists are surmising, you can add the title of "dumb team" to "young team."

 

-snip-

 

"As soon as we've had a few injuries and we've had some defensemen missing, you take out core, veteran defensemen, it's going to be dispruptive," Ruff said after today's practice that featured long lectures and lessons. "It's my job, and it may take a little while, and I know it's tough, but it's my job to get them back on the same page.

 

"Yes, they?re young. Yes, sometimes it doesn?t seem like they get the message and they go off on their own. I?ve got all kinds of examples. I can go back to the shootout where I recommended shooting the puck against [the Rangers' Henrik] Lundqvist, who just felt if he plays deep enough you?re not going to beat him. And our first, young shooter [Drew Stafford] decided to deke. That?s just an example. And he?s says, "Oh, I was just being stupid." Well, it is a little bit. It?s youthful thinking of, Maybe there is something better there. And we?re young. We?re young. That just shows a lack of maturity. I think that we?ve got to mature fast, and we?ve got to do it in the next 24 hours."

 

---John Vogl

[Kristian]

Sabres Edge Blog

 

Lindy Ruff today angrily disputed the notion that his players are tuning out his words and his system. If the Sabres really have stopped listening to the coach, as some theorists are surmising, you can add the title of "dumb team" to "young team."

 

-snip-

 

"As soon as we've had a few injuries and we've had some defensemen missing, you take out core, veteran defensemen, it's going to be dispruptive," Ruff said after today's practice that featured long lectures and lessons. "It's my job, and it may take a little while, and I know it's tough, but it's my job to get them back on the same page.

 

"Yes, they’re young. Yes, sometimes it doesn’t seem like they get the message and they go off on their own. I’ve got all kinds of examples. I can go back to the shootout where I recommended shooting the puck against [the Rangers' Henrik] Lundqvist, who just felt if he plays deep enough you’re not going to beat him. And our first, young shooter [Drew Stafford] decided to deke. That’s just an example. And he’s says, "Oh, I was just being stupid." Well, it is a little bit. It’s youthful thinking of, Maybe there is something better there. And we’re young. We’re young. That just shows a lack of maturity. I think that we’ve got to mature fast, and we’ve got to do it in the next 24 hours."

 

---John Vogl

 

And Lindy of course fails to mention WTF Stafford was even shooting in the first place.

 

So they don't listen to you Lindy, is that it? Maybe you should stop putting them in situations they clearly aren't ready for?

 

Yeah it's the NHL, everyone needs to step up and show they belong, but without veterans to lead the way a little, not even CROSBY would be half the player he is now. Penguins added both Mark Recchi and Gary Roberts because they knew their young players won't get things done on their own, no matter how talented they are. They need to learn from someone who's been around the block.

 

Stafford's been #%^$#! all year, and probably has about zero belief in his own game right about now.

 

But yeah, let's ask him to just skate down the middle and beat one of the best tenders in the league clean.

 

Fact is, it takes a heckuva lot more confidence to just shoot the puck than to deke, and if Lindy had any situational awareness, he'd have known that Stafford didn't have the stomach to pull such a move, at this time.

 

Oh, and let's go talk to the media about it afterwards, that'll get things going.

 

At this point, let a d-man take a shot. There's no pressure on him, as nobody expects anything out of him. Every forward we put on the shootout is grinding that stick to dust by the time he reaches the high slot, right now.

 

And while we're at it, shouldn't Paille be getting his "every 5 game scratch" about now? Lord knows it's really waking guys up like Max.

 

Cry me a f-ing river Lindy. Your team is making excuses, but I'm starting to wonder where they learned that? Go cry to management instead of the press, I've heard enough excuses coming out of this franchise to last me a lifetime, this year.

 

We won't make the ECF every year, hopefully this year will be an eye-opener. Seems like Lindy's been just as spoiled by success as his players, and some fans.

[Done]

Sounds like SDS should reserve a handle here for Lindy. When your team just put on the worst display in NHL history on a 5 minute powerplay, and you go pick on a 20 year old player from 2 games back with some BS "told you so", you've lost your Mojo and then some.

 

I am no good at taking micromanaged orders, and I do not appreciate being made a fool of. If you don't trust Stafford to make a hockey decision on the fly, then either he shouldn't be out there, or you are micromanaging. It makes me wonder if Vanek hasn't given Lindy a BIG FU in some of his previous shootouts. I remember one game where we needed him to keep alive, he skated in at 50% speed and shot a 30MPH floater right at the goalie's pads. I was dumbfounded at the time....but maybe Lindy made a fool out of him at practice for trying to deke the last time, so he gave his coach what he wanted.

[bottlecap]

It's a combination that the rest of the league has caught on to what we have been doing so they attack our weak spots - small, (they play small at least) weak D that's injured often, non-aggressive forwards and they have seemed to figure Miller out, especially on the shootouts. We also have a confidence crisis because it would seem the message our management is sending the players is they're not behind them. The main things are we have to get stronger D that doesn't panic so much and we have to get more aggressive on offense.

 

We need a housecleaning. The Ducks are the model of the new NHL. The Sabres had a couple great years but you need great defense and it all starts with the goalie. Sure would have been nice to have gotten Brylagov when he was available.

[shrader]

I've been thinking about Ruff's impact on this team over the last couple days. After watching so many uninspired performances, is it unreasonable to start questioning the coach? This comment about the young players not listening does go a long way to explaining why Paille always ends up in the doghouse though. At least that one question has been cleared up.

 

As for Stafford, his very limited successes in the shootouts have been when he doesn't try to get fancy and just shoots the puck, much like how Pominville scored in that Ranger game. It may have only happened once, but Stafford looked damn good when he went with the unexpected quick wrist shot.

[carpandean]

And Lindy of course fails to mention WTF Stafford was even shooting in the first place.

Stafford's been #%^$#! all year, and probably has about zero belief in his own game right about now.

But yeah, let's ask him to just skate down the middle and beat one of the best tenders in the league clean.

Fact is, it takes a heckuva lot more confidence to just shoot the puck than to deke, and if Lindy had any situational awareness, he'd have known that Stafford didn't have the stomach to pull such a move, at this time.

Yeah, what would make him think that Stafford has the stomach to

? :doh:

[Kristian]

Yeah, what would make him think that Stafford has the stomach to

? :doh:

 

My bad. Obviously Stafford scoring a goal like that against Brodeur means he should be able to do it again regardless of his form and confidence level, right?

 

Nice job of ignoring the "at this time" remark, too.

 

If we go by "Youtube stats", then Campbell is a sick bodychecker, Hank is a shootout king and Max scores highlight reel goals every night.

[Bmwolf21]

Sounds like SDS should reserve a handle here for Lindy. When your team just put on the worst display in NHL history on a 5 minute powerplay, and you go pick on a 20 year old player from 2 games back with some BS "told you so", you've lost your Mojo and then some.

I just don't buy that at all, Dwight. I'd agree it was petty and questionable if Lindy went into that unprovoked, but he was responding to questions about whether his team was tuning him out, and responded with an example.

 

Yeah, what would make him think that Stafford has the stomach to

? :doh:

Thank you. Lindy isn't exactly picking from the Eastern Conference All-Stars when shootouot time rolls around. Going into that shootout Staff was one of five (now six) Sabres to actually convert a SO attempt, and was 3-5 lifetime. Who else was Lindy going to put out there? Max, who is 0-2 this year and 5-13 career? 0-3/1-6 Roy? Vanek - 1-5 this year, 5-28 for his career and looks as bad as an enforcer on some attempts?

[Mike Oxhurtz]

Once the site crashed, so did my username. I have to start all over again. I guess I should have used the name "Regier" or "Regier Fan Club", since he likes to start over again and again.

 

Losing the other night to the Pens was depressing. Last year, we were beating the Pens, now they've swept us this year. The Pens made the right moves and has got their team in the position we were the last 2 years. Sabres management has been dismantling it. :censored:

 

I know were only 4 points out from the 8th spot, but after the last game, it doesn't give a good feeling that we can win enough games to make it. :bag:

[inkman]

Nice job of ignoring the "at this time" remark, too.

Don't mind him, he just doesn't like female posters. :thumbsup:

[shrader]

Thank you. Lindy isn't exactly picking from the Eastern Conference All-Stars when shootouot time rolls around. Going into that shootout Staff was one of five (now six) Sabres to actually convert a SO attempt, and was 3-5 lifetime. Who else was Lindy going to put out there? Max, who is 0-2 this year and 5-13 career? 0-3/1-6 Roy? Vanek - 1-5 this year, 5-28 for his career and looks as bad as an enforcer on some attempts?

 

Here's the question though. Last year they seemed to be very effective in scoring in the shoot out. Drury very rarely went, so the only shooter we lost was Briere. Now all of a sudden none of these guys can score. I don't get it. They must hate the shoot out as much as I do and in order to make a statement, they're tanking their season. :D

[Bmwolf21]

Here's the question though. Last year they seemed to be very effective in scoring in the shoot out. Drury very rarely went, so the only shooter we lost was Briere. Now all of a sudden none of these guys can score. I don't get it. They must hate the shoot out as much as I do and in order to make a statement, they're tanking their season. :D

:lol:

But I read that Sabres' fans loved the shootout last year because it helped us win the Presidents' Trophy. I'm so confused.

 

Really, though - I think Briere was the big difference. Last year you had two guys that were scoring at a pretty regular clip - Briere and Kotalik were both converting in the neighborhood of 40%, so I think that helped a lot.

[spndnchz]

Lost out there in cyberspace is a thread about "they've given up". How can we think that the players have given up on their coach? Sure, its happened, I'm sure, in some sport out there, but the Sabres? This is the team that "may take a few games to find themselves". "Themselves" being the operative word meaning "where do I stand when it comes to this system Lindy talks about?"

 

With all of the line changing all season long, injuries (come on, all teams have this at some point), trades, has any one player actually found what role they play in the "system"? If you told your employee every morning they'd be doing something different - have a different role - that day, would they ever get good at it? Know their place?

 

I think Lindy is a great coach. Some of these players don't believe and/or do not want to play this system. I don't think they've given up, they just want to be the 'saviour' themselves and that we know doesn't work. It's teamwork and some of these guys don't know where on the team they fit in.

 

In this off season this mng't team needs to figure out the roles of these players, tell them what their role is and if they don't want to play it, cut them loose, period.

[X. Benedict]

The Ducks are the model of the new NHL.

 

Now we just need to find the next Chris Pronger.

[Kristian]

Now we just need to find the next Chris Pronger.

 

We just let Scott Niedermayer's identical twin go, so I think that ship sailed.

 

Well... At least they're twins if you judge by what they both expect to get paid.

[X. Benedict]

We just let Scott Niedermayer's identical twin go, so I think that ship sailed.

 

Well... At least they're twins if you judge by what they both expect to get paid.

 

I would say more Mathieu Schneider....

[Done]

I just don't buy that at all, Dwight. I'd agree it was petty and questionable if Lindy went into that unprovoked, but he was responding to questions about whether his team was tuning him out, and responded with an example.

Thank you. Lindy isn't exactly picking from the Eastern Conference All-Stars when shootouot time rolls around. Going into that shootout Staff was one of five (now six) Sabres to actually convert a SO attempt, and was 3-5 lifetime. Who else was Lindy going to put out there? Max, who is 0-2 this year and 5-13 career? 0-3/1-6 Roy? Vanek - 1-5 this year, 5-28 for his career and looks as bad as an enforcer on some attempts?

 

The point is...the kid is in the NHL, a shootout is a very subjective event, and you need to be able to trust your instincts and improvise. You said yourself that Danny Briere was going to go blocker on Miller, but as he approached it looked like Miller was leaning that side so he went glove and beat him.

 

For Stafford to be "forced" to shoot the puck outright, which is what has been enforced by a coach calling him out in the media....it shows either a lack of trust on Lindy's part, or the question was a good one by the News. Maybe Stafford's response to Ruff was the easiest way to get Ruff to shut up. How much more simple does hockey get than on a breakaway??? That is the essence of it.

 

Sabres=Economy

 

 

PS...

I used to be on a 20% warning rate here, so just to remind SDS....blow it out' yer arse!

[inkman]

Once the site crashed, so did my username.

Do you know Mike Hochsbigga?

 

What about Harry P. Niss?

 

You must cetainly know Heywood? Heywood Jablowmi that is.

[Bmwolf21]

The point is...the kid is in the NHL, a shootout is a very subjective event, and you need to be able to trust your instincts and improvise. You said yourself that Danny Briere was going to go blocker on Miller, but as he approached it looked like Miller was leaning that side so he went glove and beat him.

 

For Stafford to be "forced" to shoot the puck outright, which is what has been enforced by a coach calling him out in the media....it shows either a lack of trust on Lindy's part, or the question was a good one by the News. Maybe Stafford's response to Ruff was the easiest way to get Ruff to shut up. How much more simple does hockey get than on a breakaway??? That is the essence of it.

 

Sabres=Economy

I don't get your point. Lindy provided an example of his young team not listening to and trusting the coaching staff and thinking they know better. Ruff didn't "force" or "require" Stafford to shoot. He did what any coach would do - he coached his players, trying to put them in the best possible situation to be successful. Ruff didn't come out after the game and say "that frigging Stafford didn't listen to me, he deked when I told him to shoot, what an idiot, that's why we suck lately." Even (according to Lindy) Stafford admitted afterward that it was a brain fart.

 

If, as you suggest, Stafford's response was the equivalent of giving the finger to Ruff, I would say he's the dumbest player ever. Ignore the coach and screw up - yeah, that's a fantastic way to get the old man off his back.

 

If the simplest play in hockey is the breakaway, then why do we suck at shootouts so badly? Why have we converted less than 25% of our SO ops? Oh, wait - I know the answer - Lindy must be overcoaching all these guys and holding them back, making them second-guess themselves.

 

And I have no idea what you are talking about WRT Miller and Briere.

[Doohickie]

they just want to be the 'saviour' themselves and that we know doesn't work.

You wouldn't be thinking of, for instance, Max, would you? The guy has some of the craziest skilz on the team, but has become one of the least effective players. Roy doesn't look anywhere near as flashy, but he seems to frequently and effeciently stickhandle into the offensive zone, then finds a well-positioned player to dish off to.

[spndnchz]

You wouldn't be thinking of, for instance, Max, would you? The guy has some of the craziest skilz on the team, but has become one of the least effective players. Roy doesn't look anywhere near as flashy, but he seems to frequently and efficiently stick-handle into the offensive zone, then finds a well-positioned player to dish off to.

I think of, but not all inclusively, the stick handlers on the team. Max, Timmy in particular. Timmy used to try a lot more to stick-handle through the defense, he got called on it and has since, IMO only tried it when he has no other chance to dish. Max on the other hand has looked good taking it to the net, or at least gaining the blueline for a change before he coughs it up. The defenders know that if Max stops (as another poster commented) all you need to do is stick check him.

 

One other thing I've noticed. Giving it away to soon on the power play. You watch Timmy on the PP and he looks to pass, the D moves in on him (within inches sometimes) and he just stickhandles, the D backs off and he then makes his play. Others, like Roy I saw the other night, same scenario, he gets pressured and tries to pass the puck between the D's legs or pass it off their stick and it's out of the zone. These boys need to re-realize they are good players and can take other teams on with their skill, not just trying not to be the one's that f#$k up.

[Mike Oxhurtz]

Do you know Mike Hochsbigga?

 

What about Harry P. Niss?

 

You must cetainly know Heywood? Heywood Jablowmi that is.

 

I also know Stu Pitt, Mike Huntstinks, Al Killeu, Pete Zerria, Bill Loney, Sal Manilla

[Done]

I don't get your point. Lindy provided an example of his young team not listening to and trusting the coaching staff and thinking they know better. Ruff didn't "force" or "require" Stafford to shoot. He did what any coach would do - he coached his players, trying to put them in the best possible situation to be successful. Ruff didn't come out after the game and say "that frigging Stafford didn't listen to me, he deked when I told him to shoot, what an idiot, that's why we suck lately." Even (according to Lindy) Stafford admitted afterward that it was a brain fart.

 

If, as you suggest, Stafford's response was the equivalent of giving the finger to Ruff, I would say he's the dumbest player ever. Ignore the coach and screw up - yeah, that's a fantastic way to get the old man off his back.

 

If the simplest play in hockey is the breakaway, then why do we suck at shootouts so badly? Why have we converted less than 25% of our SO ops? Oh, wait - I know the answer - Lindy must be overcoaching all these guys and holding them back, making them second-guess themselves.

 

And I have no idea what you are talking about WRT Miller and Briere.

 

The talking points in the Sabres dressing room the past 6-8 weeks has been "We have to be smart". I've heard it pounded into the skulls of the team, and into the microphones of the media nonstop. Stafford didn't do what Lindy suggested, so he relegated to an answer he figured the coach wanted to hear.

 

It is a bad example by Ruff to use this situation. My point about Miller and Briere was....on the postgame interview with Briere after the latest Philly game where Briere scored the winning goal in the shootout, Briere said he knew Miller and figured he could beat him on the blocker side and that's where he was going to shoot it. As Briere approached Miller, it looked to Briere that Miller had the Blocker side shut, so he decided at the last second to go glove side. He scored.

 

The point is, if Ruff wants to use Stafford dekeing on a shootout as an example of a dumb play, Ruff is grasping for straws. A shootout is a subjective situation where you use instincts to perform. You may have studied tape and tendencies, but Lundquist isn't a computer program. If STafford felt his best move at the time was to deke, then that was the best move at the time. Maybe Stafford is stupid...I don't know, but if I am a player and my decision on a shootout is questioned in the media by my coach, I am ready to shove a stick up Lindy's a$$.

 

Here's the most logical progression

 

1) Sabres have no leaders and suffer from groupthink

2) Ruff overcoaches situations because these guys don't take any initiative on their own

3) Sabres throw in the towel against Pittsburgh after slowly rolling downhill all year

4) Lindy has no power over the team anymore

5) Writers see Lindy is lost

6) Lindy defends himself by throwing Stafford under the bus

7) Stafford has no sack, so the story of him saying "That was stupid" is the quickest way to diffuse a situation on Stafford's part

8) Lindy goes to the car and downs a fifth of Wild Turkey to numb the pain

9) Nothing changes

10)Go Green, because Gaustad says so

[Doohickie]

10)Go Green, because Gaustad says so

:w00t:

 

Well, I have been bicycle commuting lately.....

[Bmwolf21]

The talking points in the Sabres dressing room the past 6-8 weeks has been "We have to be smart". I've heard it pounded into the skulls of the team, and into the microphones of the media nonstop. Stafford didn't do what Lindy suggested, so he relegated to an answer he figured the coach wanted to hear.

 

It is a bad example by Ruff to use this situation. My point about Miller and Briere was....on the postgame interview with Briere after the latest Philly game where Briere scored the winning goal in the shootout, Briere said he knew Miller and figured he could beat him on the blocker side and that's where he was going to shoot it. As Briere approached Miller, it looked to Briere that Miller had the Blocker side shut, so he decided at the last second to go glove side. He scored.

 

The point is, if Ruff wants to use Stafford dekeing on a shootout as an example of a dumb play, Ruff is grasping for straws. A shootout is a subjective situation where you use instincts to perform. You may have studied tape and tendencies, but Lundquist isn't a computer program. If STafford felt his best move at the time was to deke, then that was the best move at the time. Maybe Stafford is stupid...I don't know, but if I am a player and my decision on a shootout is questioned in the media by my coach, I am ready to shove a stick up Lindy's a$$.

 

Here's the most logical progression

 

1) Sabres have no leaders and suffer from groupthink

2) Ruff overcoaches situations because these guys don't take any initiative on their own

3) Sabres throw in the towel against Pittsburgh after slowly rolling downhill all year

4) Lindy has no power over the team anymore

5) Writers see Lindy is lost

6) Lindy defends himself by throwing Stafford under the bus

7) Stafford has no sack, so the story of him saying "That was stupid" is the quickest way to diffuse a situation on Stafford's part

8) Lindy goes to the car and downs a fifth of Wild Turkey to numb the pain

9) Nothing changes

10)Go Green, because Gaustad says so

Sorry, Dwight - I think your "logical progression" is all over the place, so I made a quick correction to help make everything make sense:

 

8) Lindy Dwight goes to the car and downs a fifth of Wild Turkey to numb the pain and logs on to SabreSpace to skewer the players, coaching staff and front office. :nana:

 

Seriously, though - you want to see an example logical progression, look at what Lindy told the guys to do.

1. Coach advises players that Lundy stays back in the net, so it will be hard to deke him but he will leave more holes open to shoot at, so shooting gives players best chance to score.

2. Sabres' two failed attempts come on dekes, but the lone goal comes on - wait for it - a shot.

 

And I'd love to see Stafford or anyone get fired up and pissed off at someone, anyone - even Lindy. Maybe Ruff singled out Stafford to get a rise out of him and get his blood boiling. Maybe Lindy wants to see if Stafford gets pissed off and responds, or if he sulks and skates around with his head down like our Cowardly Lion defenseman.

 

Either way, I don't think that Lindy can be guilty of overcoaching these guys on the shootouts, since they absolutely suck one-on-one in the SO. When we get to the SO, can you name one player on our roster that strikes fear in the opposing goalie or coach?