PerreaultForever

This: https://www.cbssports.com/fantasy/hockey/news/golden-knights-robin-lehner-undergoing-season-ending-surgery/ Or this: https://theathletic.com/news/golden-knights-robin-lehner-surgery/0Nz9aGkBJQCQ/ Or even this: https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nhl/news/robin-lehner-injury-update-golden-knights-knee-surgery-report/odxv0raxeiojwrd0kcyp8vda Definitely something off about all of this.

I know, I think you are right. We have waited a long time and as we see signs of turning the corner we want to move it ahead as fast as we can. We want playoffs, or at least competing for them right up to the end, now, next season. I think it likely Adams has a longer time frame in mind and as long as it is moving (even slightly) forward he will consider it successful. I don't think they will tank for Bedard, but they might be thinking no need to not be in the lottery next year either. We will know for sure based on what (if anything) they do in free agency and into next season. you would have lost that bet.

Lehner hurt, maybe not hurt, maybe season ending surgery, maybe not season ending surgery. Doesn't that all sound familiar? Funny how Lehner drama seems to have started up with Jack's arrival. Something weird for sure.

I know this steers off topic, but solid goaltending will enhance the offense by allowing it to open up more and play from ahead more and not having to tightly defend tiny leads. I think we need a vet goalie for the next 3 years in terms of a plan forward.

See, to the stay on topic point, I don't think the offense will need enhancing next year. I expect Krebs and Cozens will be more productive, as will Power, probably Mitts. Add Quinn. It's the defensive side of the game that needs enhancing (including goaltending).

Husso's not going to be available. Holtby's way past it. No thank you. Lot's of trade possibilities but that should be left for the off season goalie threads which I'm sure will emerge.

I think the thing about Eichel (and the culture around him) was this. With Eichel the team/ownership thinking was how do we make Eichel better, and how do we make Eichel happy, and how do we motivate Eichel to give us his all. Dumped money and term at him arguably before he earned it. Gave him wingers (Skinner, then Hall, Sam all the time). Gave him a motivational speaker coach (with zero hockey ability). Always make Jack happy, do what Jack wants. And Jack was the same. All for the glory, but not so much for the hard work (quit on a back check much Jack?) The current crop are more about what do we have to do to be better and make the team better. It's a total reversal, and the way it should have been. We tanked, which was arguably foolish, but then the rebuild centered on a diva rather than on a team. Seems to be fixed now.

I'm not trying to move Mitts, I'm just looking at the roster and thinking who is valuable enough that someone might want to trade for him and yet not that valuable or necessary to the future of the team. He's the one I come up with. So just "sign a goalie". Who is that? Unless you think we can get Kuemper who is that goalie you want to just sign? Here's the list of what's potentially out there. https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/goaltender/ufa/ Korpisalo and DeSmith are probably the best of that bunch that isn't over the hill but neither excites me. I'd trade trade for a decent one if possible.

I'd welcome going after Comtois, but I doubt the Ducks are interested in moving him. I'd be more interested in moving Mitts for a goalie though. We have to upgrade goaltending if we actually want to compete next year and just assuming UPL will get it done could get us into a Hart/Philly type of situation that won't go well.

So close, Eichel fell at the blueline in OT but the Caps player wasn't close enough to make for a perfect ending.

Samson Who?

1) Thompson 2) Samuelson 3) Skinner 4) Okposo 5) Tuch 6) Dahlin 7) Anderson, but it's a low bar 8 ) Thompson

I get the order/chronology of some things mixed up at this stage and there are some swiss cheese holes in my memory, but that's pretty much true for everything. Also had university years and other distractions like many people.

I can live with that view as a meeting ground, but also see the paragraph above.

I'm not going to argue the goalies. We probably would have won a few more games with healthier goalies but I don't think that's as big of a factor as you do. With Tuch, that's the leadership, culture change moment. You can't use him as an injury argument since he was in rehab when we got him. Mitts I do not see as a factor this year. You can blame the injury for setting him back perhaps, but I think he's been a disappointment. I had hoped for more based on the end of last year. Might still come, but right now he's not a big part of us winning. Joker and VO are valid, but now we're just down to a few guys, like most teams, and so depth is in question, but really not number of injuries imo. There's one other side to this you're not considering. Injuries actually opened the door for some players and for Granato to try new things. If Miller is healthy all year maybe Fitz never gets a shot and doesn't get to show them his character and grit (which helps the team and the culture). maybe they don't bring Samuelsson along as fast as they did? maybe Krebs spends the whole season in Rochester if Mitts isn't hurt? next man up became next man up and it helped the team bond. So in some ways, I think it may have helped and in the end made us better.

I don't think it's useful to go over every single piece of this argument but look at that list above. The stats are skewed by things like this. The first 4 are of absolutely no consequence whatsoever. Quinn really doesn't matter either. He's not here now. Only Samuelsson factors in here and he didn't start the season in Buffalo. Tuch factors into the stats as well but we knew he was recovering when we made the trade so he doesn't really factor in either in terms of "we were injured". I acknowledged earlier that the goalies do count, even though KA put us in that scenario. The idea that an old guy like Anderson could carry a heavy season load was dumb and/or desperate. But yes, it did matter, I agree on that. Mitts maybe, but I'm personally still not sold on him being a huge factor, nor do I see VO as a huge issue either. Thompson, Skinner, Dahlin, Cozens, all healthy. Okposo healthiest he's been in ages. Key pieces all in play. The injury argument seems to imply that we are good enough, even were good enough, to compete, just bad luck of injuries held us back and I just don't see the team or their play that way. Players developed, things changed, attitudes changed, there was a lot to it. Ultimately I guess we will disagree forever since I firmly believe it's culture change (FIANALLY!!!!) that has led to this turnaround, and you believe it was already there and simply held back by injuries. Everything factors in obviously, but that's the fundamental difference. These things take time.

Well at the right price you can argue for almost anyone, but his price will be high. I'd rather let Philly over pay him and laugh at them getting worse and worse. After so many years I think we finally have the beginning of a solid team first culture that we haven't had since the glory days and I want to keep building around that young core and their bonds. My adds would all be good value complimentary pieces and role players, not central pieces or "stars". I truly believe Cozens will break out next season like Tage did this year (not necessarily in big scoring numbers but in terms of general play) and we will already have the centers we need on the roster. Copp would take us up a notch faster, but even he isn't essential to the plan and I wouldn't overpay him too much either.

I totally agree with you on Kreuger having a set idea and trying to force players to fit into the slots he saw for them and expecting them to do exactly what he said. Absolutely. Skinner's a skilled player but probably our least disciplined and hardest to coach and his fall from grace is the extreme example of that square pegs in round holes thing you're talking about. I won't buy into the injury thing though. All teams get injuries, and when you look at main players or key contributors we didn't have that huge disparity compared to other teams. more than average maybe, but many key guys have played all or most of the year. If it's a real turnaround, and I'm not fully convinced it is, just optimistic that it might be, then you're left with several changes and it'll be debated forever which meant the most. Some will say the coaching but my stance for years has been the problem was the culture, Sam and Jack in their tandem glory, and the general lack of team leadership. Subtraction has led to a brighter future and so I finally got my wish, something that many disagreed with and even mocked me for when I proposed it over 2 years ago. If people still don't want to believe that removal was the key they can, and they can give all the credit to Granato or whoever, but I feel vindicated all the same. the future is brighter now. lot's of luck vegas.

I agree overall about BPA but you have to keep in mind a lot of times they have several players closely ranked and the choice as to which one is "better" isn't obvious or clear so when that happens maybe you pick the need from that closely rated group. McAvoy was my choice, but a lot of teams didn't think so, not just us. We of course blew it royally and ironically Tage was 26th in that draft and now would be top 10 if not higher. Who knew?

See, I'm against that strategy. He's too expensive and takes us away from this group think young core dynamic he have going.

Saw part of the LA game. Quick was in vintage form. He keeps that going and they might stay ahead after all. Need Dallas to win their game in hand and then Vegas is 6 out of a wild card and 5 out of the division.

To the first paragraph, I'm not sure you can say it was finally about having enough legit NHLers as we added Krebs Tuch and Muel but we ditched Sam Jack and Risto so that's 3 for 3. There are issues with the 3 ditched, but you can't say they're not legit NHLers. (Flyer fans might disagree :)) To the second, that's interesting to me because I think it's the other way around. These young guys come in guns a blazing and have all kinds of offensive skills, it's the defense they have to learn and all the little things that go with that and are necessary for solid team D are harder to learn. Some of them don't like doing it, and some of them have simply never had to, but how well they learn determines what they will or won't ultimately become. So idk, there's no question the train seems to be back on the tracks and it's kind of refreshing that we're disagreeing on who gets more of the credit rather than who is to blame. That in and of itself is positive.

Well, to the RHD, they are the best available in free agency. Neither is perfect, I agree, but they would substantially upgrade what we have on the right side now, and add more team toughness. Good compliments to our speedier young puck movers. Hopefully at the same time we draft and develop RHDs and in 3 years we are moving on from both. If we don't upgrade the right side now, it'll take longer to get playoff competitive. Only other solution is trading for a better RHD but that means giving up assets, while this is just money and cap space which we have tons of. Copp is a different kind of player and one we lack. Again, he is the best option available in free agency. Not dumping Mitts by the side of the road, but if we are to trade for a goalie, I see him as potentially expendable. Least valuable of the young centers we have. Krebs seems to have more potential imo. Lastly Girgensens, just thinking it's likely his last year here anyway, so perhaps a trade while you can and go younger and/or add toughness. Nothing against the guy, just don't see him in the long term plans and am trying to think ahead.

Definitely better hair.

This. My dream scenario is we go all in and sign Copp, Manson and Gudrandson and trade for a decent vet goalie (willing to part with Mitts if we sign Copp). That gives us a formidable starting D Joker-Dahlin Manson-Power Gudrandson-Samuelsson (Fitz and possibly Bryson as depth players) Forward lines along the mix of: Skinner-Thompson-Tuch Asplund-Krebs-VO Peterka-Cozens-Quinn Girgensens-Copp-Okposo possible additional add of DesLauriers and/or Lazar which would also allow for a Girgensens trade. Goalie, UPL and let's say Talbot if maybe they re-sign Fleury and we make some sort of deal around Talbot and Mitts. other goalies equally possible. we do that, and we are in the playoff race guaranteed.