PerreaultForever

thumbs down war now with @LGR4GM what a surprise 🙂 I am always amused how we both hate Sabres losing so much but have such antithetical visions of how to fix it or build the team. Neither of us gets what we want so the debate goes on forever.

pave over it. Fill those potholes with some of that Frakking leftovers. Get it done!

People talk about Marner's Selke votes and that he does play 2 way hockey but I'm curious as to what his defensive stats are in the playoffs? To my eyes every year that core 4 gets shut down offensively in the playoffs when it gets tough but also fails defensively and allows goals against. One year the worst guy was Marner, another year it was Matthews. One year Nylander was good another he was invisible. This year I personally thought Matthews was the worst of them but they never delivered as a whole and Marner was part of that. His size makes him less effective come playoff time as well. I don't want to follow that model. Would Marner get us into the playoffs? Maybe. Would we get past round 1? Not a chance. I'd be hesitant if I was GM to make Marner a plan as I suspect if we talked to him his agent would just use us as leverage for another deal and we'd be left hanging. So it would be one good offer and if it was not taken I'd move to plan B right away. But if I was GM Marner wouldn't be my plan anyway. As I've said elsewhere, I'd rather give the money to Bennett and Marchand if I was going to go to spend crazy. I wouldn't be shocked if the Leafs are thinking that very same thing.

I agree fully about the front office and I stick with what I've said many times. This all started when LaFontaine went out the door. Nobody in that role since and that's all on TP. The on ice comparison holds though. Sure, it's a different game today etc. but the dynamics of a good hockey team are still the same. That team had a high octane top line, a checking line that could counter punch and score and grit and character in the bottom six with a third line that had upside offence as well. The D had size but also puck moving skill. It was a balanced roster. Had a great PK as well as a good PP. Players had roles and players stuck to them with decent and sometimes very good coaching. A star goalie was all it was missing or it might have been a dynasty. Definitely would have won a cup or two. None of that team makeup for success has changed.

I do understand, but I also do think that's a loser mentality that the franchise has driven into you with all the failure (and maybe you magnify it with the Bills as a "city"). If one keeps thinking that way. If the franchise keeps looking down the road in case of these things, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Look, the bottom line is we already know Dahlin put them on notice. He told Adams he's tired of this and he expects improvements now. I guarantee you if they crap out this coming season he's gone. That might even be why Adams gets another year. He's on notice to get it done this year or else. If he doesn't they clean house and the next guy guts it trading Dahlin maybe Thompson, and we start a new 5 year plan same way Adams gutted it with Eichel Reinhart Risto. It'll suck, but that'll be the TP plan. We have the assets. Get it done now. Future picks don't matter.

disagree. You make your own luck. No season has been lost because of bad luck. It's been bad decisions by management and bad rosters.

I mentioned Cuylle because Rags have cap issues and he's there as an RFA they might not think worth keeping if he got offer sheeted. I see him as a 20 goal guy with an edge. Power forward. Not Jeannot. A thing we are lacking in though. I disagree with this "we are unlucky" narrative. Sabres make their own bad luck with bad decisions. Injury stats are boosted by trading for injury prone players. Zucker, Greenway, Norris all had injury issues before they ever came here.

Not what I'm expecting. If you go back to where I first posted it you will see I said it's not going to happen. No chance. It was put out there as dream of what would be possible for a good GM with the assets and cap room Adams has. If you look at the Sabres objectively they have a luxury position to make moves compared to other teams. Other teams have no prospects to trade if they've been all in for years, no or few picks, few desirable players to unload without damaging their rosters and often little to no cap space. or one or more of those issues. Sabres have cap room and a treasure chest full. NOT getting it done takes an extreme amount of ineptitude. and that ineptitude is what I expect. I'm not doing the math but remember you would shed Norris and Byram. Other teams get these things done. Teams with taxes too.

lol, okay so you just need Hasek level goaltending. Funny man. More likely at best you get Hasek level right now at his current age.

That's the era I became a fan and silly me, I thought I'd picked one of the best teams in the league. How little of what it was like then remains that it makes me sad to think about. They were talented but also tough and had character and compete. Perfectly constructed team just missing a star goalie and ultimately that was the difference. If Sabres had had their goalie I think they'd have won that cup. (not blaming our goalie to be clear, he was fine, just that for all the Broad Street Bully bs they wouldn't have won their cups without theirs) You know, that roster and how it was constructed is what Adams should be trying to build. Why they don't look at that as the blueprint is beyond me.

If you are even considering unprotected firsts to maybe get McKenna you've already lost and you might as well gut the roster again and tank fully. It's a loser mentality. I want a team that will bump a Marnerless Toronto out of the standings and make a late 2026 1st irrelevant. We have scorers. We have a top line. Peterka Thompson Tuch is a top line. Peterka Kulich Thompson maybe even. That's a scoring line either way. Marchand Bennett Cuylle would be a killer 2nd line right up there with what Florida does now. Able to both shut down another team's high end line and score. Nasty and hard to play against. Then you've got a 3rd line with Benson and McLeod and Zucker or Kulich or Tuch or whoever wins the job that is good enough to compete at that level. Greenway becomes 4th line dominant. We would score more top to bottom but most of all also stop some scoring against. The D would have solid pairs that let Power and Dahlin drive the play and Clifton/Samuelsson would be reduced minutes bottom pairing at best. Add a decent NHL goalie. It's a fantasy, but it would be a very good hockey team.

Agree on the goalie but while it was a pipe dream it wasn't "fanciful". It's a possible (with the assumption you could get the free agents to sign) way to reshape the team dynamic and fill the holes on the roster. We don't just need a player or two, we need better leadership, compete, and team dynamic. We need guys who drag other guys into the fight and as they put it on Shoresy we need a team that "hates to lose"

Well from a purely objective point of view this is what fascinates me about it and why I pay a little attention to them to see what happens. Ideally I think both teams need a little of what the other has/does and a mix is the way to go but we have one extreme and they have the other. So far neither has worked. I'm still interested to see if one "wins" over the other.

You seriously think it could? Seriously?

Zero chance that line up would get in the playoffs. Zero.

Disagree. We have snipers and goal scorers. We need rugged and D. Even if you think Quinn can be very good you are allowed to trade quality for different quality. The make up of the whole roster is what matters. Dream scenario that completely changes the team: You sign Bennett and Marchand in free agency. You then trade Norris for a top 4 D man. You trade Byram for a goalie. You offer sheet and get Cuylle. You trade Quinn for another D man. (Maybe Toronto loses Marner and they give up Carlo as an example) You pick up a lower level grit guy or two in free agency or via lower level trades. Gadjovich Greer types. Bottom end depth guys who can scrap. You make the playoffs and maybe more. Nothing here impossible. None of it actually going to happen with this GM and owner.

Mostly I think that's cause they give almost every top player a NMC. Once you pay your top guys you have to ride with them unless they agree to move. Leafs supposedly had a deal to move Marner to Carolina but he said no as an example. It does show you how hard it is to move up though. Once buried in the basement you need to make a lot of correct moves and you most definitely need good goaltending. Ottawa for example does not get in without that hot run Ullmark had. There's exceptions though so nothing is certain. Washington has defied the rebuild scenario with a quick turnaround and Dallas seems to be able to draft well despite finishing high. Tampa stayed relevant although that might still be ending. The biggest surprise is probably that Edmonton stayed top 4. Crap goaltending and reduced depth but here we are again and Corey Perry gets one more crack at it.

It's all a lot like last year isn't it.

On paper yes, and they have a huge goaltending hole but the comparison still holds until one of the two make the playoffs. Completely antithetical rebuild plans. neither has worked yet. The verdict remains to be seen on which plan is best.

This is pretty much the truth, but all of that is on Adams and yet Adams is still here. Why do we not have more bodies in place? We don't spend to the cap, Adams didn't add players. There were waiver wire players even that could have been added here and there. AJ Greer was a waiver guy playing for Florida and they also got Boquist that way. In terms of roster construction the Florida lines fit the bill better. What they have done is cobbled together a 4th line that has toughness and grit but also doesn't yield too much and so isn't a liability. If the top 2 lines in the playoffs cancel out the game falls on that third line and that's where they killed Toronto. Post deadline they have the best 3rd line in hockey. Sabres 3rd line? Constantly cobbled together leftover pieces that didn't fit elsewhere. This will never happen but if they added Marchand and Bennett and then traded Norris for a top 4 D man to play with Power then they might actually have the basis of a good competitive roster. Byram could also be moved for another D man or solid winger. The "core" of this team just isn't a solid competitive core.

I don't think he's comparable to either of those two and he's not at that level. He's a goal scorer but he is primarily a perimeter player but also in fairness that is who the Sabres are. That is how they play. It's not a good way, but it is their way. Peterka imo is a 20 goal guy but he's weak defensively and often too soft (although I think that could be coached out of him if done right). He should be paid accordingly but not more.

By AHL standards he's a star. It makes a huge difference.

Well maybe if we had a lights out Hasek type goalie but "fixing" with anything viable is doubtful to have changed anything. We picked up a lot of late season garbage points as a loose team taken lightly. It was, as every year, meaningless. We might have gotten a little closer like Detroit at best.

So you are suggesting he's a Sutter or a McSorley?

That second sentence is in no way shape or form true. "solid to excellent"? Your bar is way way way too low. I cannot recall a good back checking forward group on this team since Pegula bought it. It's just not what they do, and then the D runs around trying to do too much. We want to be the Leafs but we aren't as good but also have the same issues only magnified. Take the Seth Jones goal as an example. Carlo was left back and some fans are attacking the trade and blaming him for being crap D but the reason it happens is Reilly thinks he can make an offensive play and tries to jump the gap for a quick attack. He shouldn't have. Carlo was hung out to dry. That sort of thing happens to the Sabres all the time as we promote all this quick exit puck mover stuff and it doesn't work and never has worked but we stick with it cause that's Terry's vision, just like Shanahan and Dubas's, going to redefine hockey with speed and skill. They never learn. Do we need better D? Absolutely. We need some rock solid defenders. Do we need better goaltending? Absolutely. Consistent at bare minimum. Will adding a goalie and a D man fix this team and get us in the playoffs? Not a chance. Not until the forwards get some balls and all start playing with Benson's attitude. Fearless and aggressive. Until then we will be a middling at best perimeter and possession team that likes to shoot from a distance.