triumph_communes

Two year term on a guy begging for 5 and his comparable all got 4 or 5 year deals? Amazing! No downside to the contract whatsoever. I believe Mittelstadt will still be 2C and he will be fine, and Johansson will be his backup center in a pinch or if he’s struggling too much. They’re both lefties and can alternate through that role.

The problem with Mittelstadt was his conditioning (just like Eichel at the same age), and being anchored by Okposo almost all season. His shifts with Skinner and Reinhart were magical. Eichel can hold his own with other wingers we have. Its not the end of the world if we go into the season with Mittelstadt as a 2C. Girgensons and Larsson or Rodrigues can hold down the 3/4C just fine. More talent on the wing and these centers aren’t in shambles like last season. Plus a new system and coach will do wonders.

Bleh, bad situation to be in.

I stand similarly with the other poster from above. Botterill’s job is to ensure continued success year after year. The timeline for that, unfortunately, is longer than may be fair to fans. But given the hole Murray had us in, it’s necessary. Housley’s job was to just get the most out of the player pool his GM gave him. He had all season to switch Girgensons or Rodrigues to center and call up Smith et al, but he didn’t ask for that. Thompson’s problems were his cute dekes. He gets away with them in the AHL, but he doesn’t in the NHL. I believe the reason he stayed up is because keeping him down was just going to reinforce bad habits. I also have a difficult time being hard on a player who was stapled to Sobotka the vast majority of his time.

Thanks for the drawn out reply. I respectfully disagree with the overall assessment, but I’m just going to focus on a few points: 1). There are many interviews where Botterill has stated that his relationship with the coach is to suggest players for the main squad, but he has repeatedly said final decision on which league a player is in is on the coach. Yes, the GM obviously has the power to trump this line if needed, but Botterill lets the coach have reign. This is the sort of leash that helps him attract guys like Krueger in the future— most coaches have a bit of an ego and don’t want to fight their GM. Look at Toronto this off season and all that messy noise.. 2) Thompson was never meant as some 1 for 1 replacement for ROR. At most he was a half replacement, in the future. That’s some incredible pressure to put on the kid. His role is to be a large body finisher on a team that has plenty of playmakers. This team needs RWs and unfortunately he didn’t develop right away and that’s why we ended up with Vesey as a stop gap for the upcoming season. 3) On the trade deadline Botterill made it clear- the team was in no position to hedge the future just to make the playoffs last season (with a coach he already gave up on). He also didn’t sell everything for spare parts either. Montour was the perfect balance there and was a great trade. Again though, if you think he failed at acquiring a 2C mid season, I will reiterate that statistically the team was getting very lucky bounces and was bound to regress to a mean unless Housley changed something (and he didn’t). Also, you don’t often see trades mid season for 2Cs like that. The better deals were this offseason that he is yet to make. 4) The Montour trade was as much positive endorsement the GM could realistically give on a team that was already playing with no heart. I believe they gave up on the coach who couldn’t figure out how to teach his system to the players on the team who were struggling to learn it. Housley’s failures appear to be on communication more than anything.

Toronto was only marginally worse until they actually signed Ceci and told him to expect to be in their top-4. They got much worse. Kadri was a huge loss too

I work under the premise that Krueger was Botterill’s coaching target all along, and the only reason we didn’t get him instead of Housley originally is because he refused to abandon Southampton until his stint was naturally over. Botterill was operating under a premise that if Housley couldn’t motivate the boys then he was gone I also take Botterill’s words at face value that he has repeatedly stated that all roster decisions were the coach’s final decision to make. And that it was Housley, not Botterill’s doing that Sobotka had the time on the ice last year he did. Remember, even then Sobotka was eventually scratched in the end of last season beyond the injuries sustained The reason Botterill stood pat is that he saw the underlying analytics behind the ten game run and saw how it was cardiac kid luck, not sustainable success that was occurring. And it’s not like Botterill did nothing, he went out and acquired Montour without taking anything away from the current roster, yet Housley couldn’t inspire a fly to get out of the way of a slap back into reality. Tage has a chance, absolutely. I also see what Botterill did to Moulson and know if the coach has no interest, Botterill has no problem making someone disappear. If you look at Krueger’s history as an NHL coach, he played rookies more often than not. He would set them up for success, something I don’t think Mittelstadt ever once was put in the situation of last year. Krueger made Yakupov look like a rising star— I am really excited to see what magic he can do here. I understand the Housley love of Sobotka, but I don’t think Krueger is that dumb. I think Mittelstadt can play the sheltered 2C type minutes as long as we have Erod holding down a 3rd line that maybe dos some more lifting that other teams do. But we have an amazing shutdown duo in Larsson and Girgensons (that honestly Vesey is a perfect compliment for, given Vesey likes to take the puck right to the net while the other two will cycle ad infinitum) and if they are used properly, can shelter Mittelstadt some. Sheary-Mittelstadt-Reinhart in their short time last year was dangerous, and as long as Kruger watches the tape from those games, I foresee him putting that forward next season. Plus Oloffson as a LH RW on Eichels side is what Eichel needs. We all wanted a better player there like Nyquist or Zucc, but those players chose not to sign here. Oloffson will be a gem to help spread the rest of the talent elsewhere in the line up.

Theres two options July 1st: 1. The Murray approach of signing Moulson and Okposo to huge contracts 2. Patience and building from within on a realistic timeline

Theres 18 forwards who could easily take one of the 13 slots. There’s at least 12 defenders for 7-8 slots. If that’s not competition I’m not sure what is. If if you’re afraid Sobotka wasn’t pre-relegated, I don’t think you understand what meritocracy means. A lot of these guys will get new leashes under a new coach.

The ‘hole’ at 2C is just a year or so until Mittelstadt’s strength and condition catches up and he takes it. It’s not a problem to be solved by FA where the deals are 4+ years and for top dollar. A trade involving Ristolainen I bet is still on the table, pending what shakes out with the Habs offersheeting players like Point and Tampa being forced then to make a move to make space. Some people pled need to calm the hell down. Rome wasn’t built in a day and Murray had this team in a bad bad place. Plus, a coach was the difference between last place in the league St Louis and Stanley cup champions St. Louis. We’ve got a good one coming, be patient.

Both Oloffson and Vesey will play RW

Skinner-Eichel-Oloffson Sheary-Mittelstadt-Reinhart Smith-Rodrigues/Ruotsalainen-Vesey Girgensons-Larsson-Okposo Wilson/Sobotka/Elie waived Thompson and Nylander injury callups Dahlin-Montour McCabe-Ristolainen Scandella-Miller Hunwick/Nelson one waived Pilut to push Scandella or McCabe out of the lineup when healthy. Bogosian to kick the remaining 7th dman back when he’s healthy So, much, competition here, coming from young guys, fringe guys, and old vets. Nobody’s spot is safe, pretty crazy. Only Okposo is getting gifted minutes imo

Mittelstadt will center. We have other LWs.

Don’t want Johansson. Give me Nyquist

One year of Hoffman for all of that? Saves Florida cap space? Not sure he value is right there

Nyquist would be a decent alternative to Zucc and Donskoi, assuming they can keep the years down to 3 maybe 4.

Great dream, but the NMC I have a hard time seeing being waived. Trochek is is the only ‘realistic’ guy on their roster without a trade clause that has the salary they need to move, and even then him being ‘realistic’ is a stretch. Theyre in the division. Just let them burn. Just like Toronto

Pilot is on IR. He is also a lock for the NHL, worst case just after a short recovery stint because he has that option. The Miller acquisition does not necessitate a trade, but once Pilut and Bogo heal up, it does. Remember, Krueger and Botterill were very worried in interviews weeks ago about starting the season with, in their words, ‘two of their six defenders on IR’. This trade helps with that on its own. What it does do is give Botterill a lot of flexibility: If he wants to trade Risto on July 1st, he can do so without having to scramble for scraps to replace him while we wait on the other prospects like Borgen to make their way up. If he doesn’t find the Risto trade he wants, he keeps him. There won’t be a need to trade away the excess defender until November timeframe and they can choose between many options that can all be easily moved for low draft picks if needed. By then camp is over the season has started and it will be easier to make the decision on who to trade or cut. No defenseman on the roster has an albatross multi year contract that can’t be moved or easily buried. Beyond just the analytics and the player Miller himself, one of the best parts about the trade is the flexibility it gives Botterill going into both next week, but the start of the season as well.

This is a stopgap to mid season where two players coming off IR will force a trade Before: Dahlin-Montour McCabe-Ristolainen Scandella-Miller Nelson After: Dahlin-Montour Pilut-Ristolainen McCabe-Miller Scandella-Bogosian-Nelson, two traded for picks I didn’t even include Hunwick, but either him or Nelson will be waived anyway

Oloffson-Eichel-Zuccorello Skinner-Mittelstadt-Reinhart Smith/Ruostalainen-Dzingel-Thompson Girgensons-Larsson-Rodrigues/Okposo Trade/demote: Sheary, Sobotka, Nylander, Wilson, Elie just signing two guys and promoting a couple results in a lot of bad cap to deal with

But he’s OUR eklund

Safe means high floor, connotes low ceiling, yes. The digressions of the pick all focus on other players available having higher ceilings (higher hockey IQ). This is especially so for the Johnson pick. And I think those digressions are misguided Teams dont build for long term success by shoehorning themselves into tiny 3 year ‘windows’.

We already have Eichel, Dahlin, etc. Even if we acquired the next Matthews we couldn’t really afford him. Picking guys who are safe complimentary picks that fit a role no other rostered player currently provides since Folingo is a good thing. Tons of picks who will at least play depth roles is how we will end up with continued success. People who are mad at Botterill and prefer a TM’s draft need to be reminded with how many of his 1st and 2nd round picks even panned out, or the players he traded multiple 1st and 2nd round picks for don’t even play for the team anymore because they were so busted. Safe picks are what this team needs the most. Cozens is a safe pick and that’s great. And if they want to play him right away/- remember Krueger was the only coach in the league that made Yakupov not only serviceable, but look like a star. The ‘rushed’ examples like Mittelstadt were stuck playing with Okposo all season because we had a dumb coach. If they think Cozens can grow into his body playing here, then trust them. I bet he spends a year beefing up though, he has a lot of frame to fit into still.

I don’t understand any comparison with Psysk. He was a below average skater that had no offense. Just played things safe and had a decent first pass. This kids a top-10 in his draft year skater, has moxie, and played for a winning team. He isn’t your flashy goal scorer, but Sexton/Botterill have their own metrics they track with these kids and hit a bunch of times with the Penguins— maybe give them the benefit of the doubt here.

Coaching has held the team so far back, I wouldn’t be so pessimistic with next season even if not many faces change.