GASabresIUFAN

@sweetlou, if you don't mind, I'm going to transition this thread a little. While asking who the core is is an important question for our GM, I'm curious how people here think about all the Sabres and key prospect fit into the picture. I divide the guys into 6 categories. 1 - the Real Core. These are the 4 or 5 guys that management commits to long term. To me right now only Dahlin and now maybe Thompson fit that description. 2 - Potential Core - Mitts, Cozens, Power, Krebs, Quinn, and Levi could all earn promotion to the 1st category, but we are in wait and see for a variety of reasons such as injuries or youth. Depending on how things go, some of these guys will move up to Category 1 while others will transition to Category 3 or 4. I don't see anyone slipping to category 5. 3. Quality Veteran Depth - Tuch, Skinner, and Okposo are the guys in this category. Tuch has 4 years left and isn't going anywhere and could be next year's Captain, but I don't see him as a guy extended long-term at 29. Skinner is 29 with 800 games and is rejuvenated this season with another 5 years on his deal. KO is 33, wears an A and has one year left. He is also reborn under DG. I would have said he's gone after next season, but I can also see him extended to continue to mentor the kids. 4. Good transitional depth - This category is guys who will a fill need for a period of time, but won't be core players. Samuelsson, JJP Jokiharju, VO, and UPL are the current guys that fit this description. This doesn't mean they aren't good players and in some cases force their way into long-term consideration, but ultimately they'll be replaced by prospects pushing up from below or outside vets because they get to expensive to re-sign. For example, I really really like Samuelsson and Jokiharju, but once we commit to long-term deals for Power and Dahlin, it's doubtful we'll be able to afford to keep these guys forever. Levi and Portillo will eventually take over from UPL. 5. Expendable young players - I see these guys as players who could play here awhile in a depth role but will be replaced relatively quickly and could also be used to enhance trades. I see Fitzgerald, Johnson, Bryson, Asplund, Murray, Weissbach, Laakosonen and Portillo as these type of guys. Portillo was the hardest to place. He could end up being the best of our three goalie prospects or guy we trade for depth elsewhere. 6. JAGs (Garbage?) - On the good side of this category are guys like Girgensons, Pysyk, Anderson and Hinostroza and on the bad, Bjork, Hayden, Caggiula, Dell, Eakin, Subban, and Butcher. Hagg and Jankowski are somewhere in the middle. The more we can shrink this category the better. I only see Girgensons and Bjork returning because they are under contract, but none will missed when they are gone.

There is one thing that I don't think is debatable. Losing Jack has left the Sabres with only one truly dynamic player and that is Dahlin. As much as I like, Tuch, Thompson, Mitts, Cozens and even Krebs, none of them truly drives offense individually. The line of Skinner, Tuch and Thompson are playing as an excellent collective and driving offense. This lack of a dynamic player shows itself on the PP and in OT more than any other place, but it is felt. Team efforts like last night are how this team needs to succeed without a true No 1. center.

I was thinking more replacing Hayden, but either or is fine. The only games Bjork should play for us next season is as a short term injury fill in. Truthfully he needs to be waived if we can't find a trade partner and sent to Rochester.

Has this trade changed the fortunes of either club? Obviously it's early days and both teams have other issues. LV record with Jack: 2-3-1. Jack is now playing 19 minutes a night and getting his shots but has only 1 goal in 18 shots (5.6%), and 3 assists. LV record without Jack 28-17-3. They are still third in the Pacific, but could easily miss the playoffs. Edm and Ana are within 3 points. Sabres with Tuch: 7-13-3. Tuch is playing almost 20 minutes a night and has 7 goals and 16 assists for 23 points in 23 games. He hasn't scored a goal in 7 games. The Sabres without Tuch are 10-17-5. Pts per game have fallen slightly since Tuch was added to the lineup (.78 vs .74), but scoring is up slightly (2.74 vvs 2.65 for the season). Krebs has 3 goals and 7 assists for 10 points in his 21 games. Granted this debate will ebb and flow over time. Right now the I'd argue Tuch has improved the Sabres forward group, but that the team's other issues (goaltending and defense) are to overwhelming for that impact to influence the standing to much. As to LV, 6 games is to small a sample size given Jack's injury and missing a year of game action. However, I'm going to keep an eye on that shooting %. That needs to improve for Jack to have the impact LV purchased. I am glad Jack in back on the ice, but they need him to be a star for this to ultimately work for them.

Can someone update the title of this thread? How about something like "How much more upside does Dahlin have?"

This is a much better role then becoming a goon. I'm kinda hoping he continues to work on his O so that he can become a guy who can play up the lineup when needed and contribute. With him, Tuch, Samuelsson, and Thompson, this team could become much more physically imposing. I also like Dahlin's added feistiness. I wish Murray was playing here right now over Bjork and Hayden.

We know that Thompson is the biggest bargain Sabre, but it’s a pretty good battle between Butcher and Eakin for most overpaid Sabre.

Because DG and KA need their collective heads examined. I can't wait until Z and Vinnie return so 2/3 of the turd line can be sent to the pressbox.

Team looks much better with a healthy and active Mitts and VO. Those two’s best game in weeks and weeks. That allows us to roll at least 3 good lines. Now if they could play with that fire every night. Just think those Leafs fans paid $500 per seat to watch that beat down. No way the Leafs come close to the Cup with that defense.

No idea.

They are sinking like the Russian stock market.

The first move should be to renovate the damn building.

The Sabres aren’t moving regardless of who owns the team. I hate to say this but if TP does sell the team I wouldn’t be happy about bringing in another new administration despite my dislike of how KA has handled the goaltending and defense. At some point we are going to have to stick to a plan and see what happens. KA is the 4th GM to have hand in this rebuild. It’s time to stick with it

This is what I wrote last off-season. It was obvious what needed to be done and of course he did none of it. Ullmark and McCabe walked (rightfully so) and instead of using his cap space to do the necessary upgrades, he gave us Anderson, Dell, Hagg, Butcher and Pysyk. Continued mismanagement. No wonder we never win and make no real progress up the standings.

Hard to win with goaltending like that. No surprise that our record is 2/7/1 during that period. We have allow 3 or more goals in all 10 games and 4 or more goals in all 8 losses. Dear Kevyn, goaltending matters.

no question.

Here are a couple of interesting RHD that would be a good fit for us this summer and would help in the leadership role. They are also young enough to be here for more then one season. 1) TB's Jan Rutta. 31 and has won a Cup with TB. Stay at home D who would be an excellent addition. Why would he come here. Simply put $ and a chance to play with a Dahlin or Power. Has only been in the NHL 5 years. Skates about 17 minutes a night for TB. Current cap only 1.3. 2) Washington's Nick Jensen. He's 31 and has a current cap 2.5 and one year left on his deal. Could easily be a cap casualty in Washington with 71 mill spent on only 16 players and two RFA goalies. I'd love to see KA work out a deal to get Vanacek and Jensen from them.

I was researching on capfriendly for the goaltenders with one year left on their deal who we may be able to acquire this offseason in a reasonable trade 1) Quick - age 36. ytd 30 games 2.54 . 913. Cap hit $5.8. Why he might be available. He lacks a NTC or NMC. Petersen was just extended for $5 mill starting next year and is their starter long-term. They already have $58 committed to 12 players (including Quick). May want to spend their money elsewhere. 2) Varlamov - age 33. YTD 15 games 2.67 .914. Cap Hit $5.0. Sorokin the starter. NYI have 67 mill committed to 16 players (including Varlamov). They need help on D and Dobson a costly RFA to re-sign. Maybe Varlamov will waive his M-NTC (16 team list) for a chance to start again. 60 games of playoff experience including the NYI run the last two years. 3) Talbot - age 31. YTD 31 games 2.94 .910. Cap Hit 3.667. Min needs all the cap relief they can get with Parise and Suter costing them 12.743 next year against their cap. They also need to give Fiala a huge raise. Kahlkonen (also in line for a big raise) is the starter next year. FYI Goligoski is having a huge comeback year with Min and is a UFA this summer. Quick is a lifetime King and I doubt they'll trade him, but he'd be a great mentor to our young goalies and would have instead credibility in the lockerroom. That said I'm pretty sure Varlamov and Talbot will be available. Sadly, I'm sure teams will try to get Varlamov at the deadline driving up his price. Still I'd inquire if I was KA as their aren't many teams that can take on his cap hit. The NYI need depth at LHD. Sounds like a good place to send Bryson? How about Bryson and a 4th? That leaves Talbot. Min will have to dump him this summer, but they need him for the playoff chase this season. What is he worth? A 3rd in 2023. Would you trade Bryson for him or Asplund? Also I'd make an offer sheet to Washington for Vanecek. Both Vanecek and Samsonov are RFAs and they probably can't afford to keep them both. Vanecek is 26 and in 24 games has a 2.39 .915. I'd offer him a three year deal with an average cap hit of 4.2. Washington would have to match or we only give up a 2nd rd pick. It would be a steal for us as I doubt Washington would be able to afford to match the deal. This gives us a 26 year old goalie who has proven he can play in the NHL who is young enough to earn the starting job long-term or become a trade asset if UPL can beat him out.

Yes, UPL is still a rookie. He's need to have played 25 games this year or at least 6 games last year and at least 6 games this season to no longer be considered a rookie. Samuelsson however with 12 games last year and 16 this year won't be a "rookie" officially next year.

I have no problem beginning to prune and it may happen. I don't see Bryson, Fitzgerald,. Asplund or Olofsson as long term pieces. Who do you want to prune? Last year everyone would have said we could probably prune Thompson and Jokiharju. Oops. Good analogy, but I think the ratio will more likely be 8 to 13 vets to younger players. Each forward like will have least one vet (Skinner, Okposo, Tuch and Girgensons), On the backend KA is going to add a veteran goaltender and at least two veteran D just to get us cap complaint. He'll also likely add a 4th line center. I think the roster will look something like this Vets - 8 - Girgensons (500+ games), Okposo (900 games), Skinner (850 games), Tuch (300 games) plus 4th line center, 2 veteran D and 1 vet goalie Some NHL experience 7 - (100 to 300 NHL games) - Mitts, Thompson, Cozens, Dahlin, Jokiharju, VO, and Asplund, Rookies - 7 - UPL, Samuelsson, Fitzgerald, Quinn, Krebs, JJP, & Power I can see Bryson or Bjork returning, but I hope KA moves on from both.

I think we generally agree that vets like Eakin, Hayden, Anderson, Miller, Hagg and even Girgensons aren't the right guys to move this team forward. Skinner, Tuch and KO seem like the only ones delivering the right message on and off the ice. Truth be told, there will probably even less veteran presence on next year's team as Power, Quinn, Krebs, Samuelsson, UPL and possibly others become full time NHLers. So it makes it more imperative then ever for KA to make good decisions on how to get the Sabres cap compliant next season with vet who are proven winners. I think where we basically disagree is quantity of outside help. From my research the best teams seem primarily home grown. However even on successful teams home grown players can range for kids to vets. In 2005/06 the Sabres picks on the team ranged from the 1995 draft (McKee and Biron) to the 2003 draft (Vanek). Only 1996 wasn't represented.

Carolina in 2019 had the same number of vets we have now, except their vets were 26 and 27 and many were home grown. Only 3 players on their roster were over 28; Williams (36), McElhinney (35) and Staal, J (29). Again, the answer to the question is having the right veterans, not just a large number of vets.

I'm not so sure. I went and looked at the average age stats from 2018-19 and the three youngest teams were Buffalo, Colorado and Carolina. Today 2/3 of those teams are at the top of the NHL standings. It looks like they allowed their kids to grow together and then supplemented to fill roster holes. Obviously their rebuilds worked and ours didn't. I think this is KA's strategy. I'm hopeful that KA will use this off-season and his considerable cap room to start filling roster holes not filled with players in our system. Even our good teams in 2005/05 and 2006/07 were build mostly on the backs of our draft picks and developed players. Miller, Biron, Noronen, Max, Kotalik, McKee, Vanek, Roy, Campbell, Kalinin, Gaustad, Peters, Novotny and Paille were all Sabres picks. Outside talent was under 25 like Connolly and Pyatt or in the middle of their prime like Briere, Drury, Lydman, Dumont, and Hecht. Only 30+ players were Grier and Numminen. In fact, the Sabres, according to Elite Prospects, they were the 2nd youngest team that season at 25.91. Amazingly they were even younger the next season at 25.62. I don't think the number of vets really matter. It's having the right vets and the right leadership to insure accountability who set a standard that losing is un-acceptable. We haven't had that since Drury left town. Maybe Tuch resets that standard here.

When Chicago won their 1st Cup they only had 7 players over 25. Kane was 20 and Toews 21. Each rebuild is different, but one of the keys for Chicago was the playoff experience of Hossa and Campbell to go with the talent of Kane and Toews. Tuch is the first such guy for us. We need more.

We don’t lack vets. Up front KO is nearing 900 games, Skinner over 800, Z is in his 8th season and Eakin is nearing 700 games. Vinnie is in his 7th season. On the back end Pysyk is in his 10th season and Miller his 7th. Anderson has played in over 650 NHL games over 19 seasons. We have the wrong vets. What we are missing in leaders who know how to play winning NHL hockey. Tuch is the playoff leader on this team with 66 playoffs games. Eakin is second at 50 and Anderson 48. Skinner has never reached the playoffs. KO has only played in 24, Pysyk 4. I think Tuch is the only guy on this team that truly knows what a winning effort looks like. Tuch’s presence has already evaluated Thompson. Of the vets listed odds are that only KO, Skinner and Z will be returning. We need to supplement them with vets who have Cup experience and command respect in the dressing room. That’s where a goalie like Quick and a D like Orlov come in. Guys who understand winning and will hold the kids accountable.