mjd1001

When players get a lot of un-related injuries in their career, I don't usually think they are 'injury prone' due to their body just being more fragile than anyone elses. However, as you mentioned, it could be related to their style of play. The parts of the ice you spend your time in...how much you engage in physical play, maybe even something as simple as how your body is positioned when battling for a puck on the boards....all that can be related to how much/how often a player gets injured. I'm not there with Eichel being 'injury prone' yet, but we are for sure on the lookout if that keeps happening. Another 1 or 2 nagging injuries that cause him to miss time in the next year or so..and you might have to think he is 'injury prone' and likely to miss time due to his style of play, if nothing else.

Same here. Days 1 and 2 was body soreness and bad headaches. Days 3-4-5 were a bad cough (2nd and 3rd nights so bad I couldn't fall asleep) Days 6 and 7 I lost my voice Better on day 8, back to normal on day 9. Now it is 2 days after that and I woke up today with a bad cough again.

Who do I want to win? Really anyone but the Rangers or Leafs (most annoying fan bases, and to me, yes, more annoying than Bruins fans). Who do I think? Take out the favorites (that is no fun), but as a dark horse I think Edmonton is playing really really well lately.

I understand where you are coming from, but how big of a topic Eichel is, how he is a spotlight player in the NHL, how he was viewed by some/many as the 'savior' of the Sabres...he IS GOING to be talked about...and I'm fine with it..that is what message boards are for. If every time one of us got tired of talking about a topic and requested everyone else to 'move on' from it, this would be a very quiet and boring place to visit.

Interesting line combos for Vegas today:

We have gotten to the point where, as others have said, the discussion has gone circular. Same points are getting repeated....and not many people are moving off of their point of view. That is fine though, that is what discussion boards are for. I'm still of the Opinion that Eichel isn't close to the generational player we wanted him to be when he was in Buffalo...and he is not as good as Vegas thought he would be when they traded Tuch, Krebs, and a first for him. It seems like many Sabres fans (when he was here) and Vegas fans now wanted/expected him to be a top 5 NHL scorer, a potential 40-50+ goal, 100+ point guy, who can carry a team on his back. What he appears to be now is a guy who is 20th or so best in terms of scoring (his best year, his CAREER year got him to #10 in the league), a guy who will get you 30-35 goals and 90 points, and doesn't have the mentality to carry a team on his back. He might crack 40 goals and 90 points in the next year or two, but that would become his 'career' year, not the norm. Oh, and that is IF he is fully healthy for an entire season, something that with him seems less likely than with most other players. If he comes back strong next year and proves me wrong...breaks the top 10 in scoring and is the primary reason Vegas makes the playoffs, then he will prove me and a lot of other people wrong. But by this point, he no longer gets the benefit of the doubt that a season like that will LIKELY happen...to me it is likely NOT to happen until he proves it. Here is the what I would really like to know: How many people here (what percentage) would like to undo the Eichel trade if he was willing to stay here for the rest of his contract? How many people here (what percentage) at this point would undo the ROR trade?

many versions of it out there, here is one: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/analyzing-value-nhl-draft-picks/ Another good one: https://myslu.stlawu.edu/~msch/sports/Schuckers_NHL_Draft.pdf Bottom line...Of course you want the higher pick, but by the time you get down into the teens, there really isn't much of a difference between picks 16-17 and picks 20-21.

There is a chance Eichel has one more 'career' year in him...and for him I mean a 40 goal, 90-100 point year. There is a CHANCE we see that in the next year or two. What is more likely is that he keeps on being exactly what he always has been...a 30-35 goal scorer, 80-90 point guy who finishes 10th-20th in the league in scoring. The Troubling thing for Vegas is....UNLESS he is still suffering big time discomfort post surgery, the realization the league may be coming to is that he never was or will be what Buffalo and Vegas thought. Vegas has clearly been a worse team since he started playing for them. Buffalo is clearly a better team since he was moved and replaced with Tuch. Players that Jack spent a lot of time with in Buffalo are having bounce-back or career years after he left (Reinhart, Okposo, Skinner). These things are no longer small one-time things fans in Buffalo are looking for to take shots at him...they are now front and center and obvious. Vegas is in their most important stretch of games this season and as others have said, no goals, no points for Jack in over a week. A lot of people here accepted Jack needed to be traded but said all along "the team that gets the best player (jack) is going to win the trade". That really may not be the case here. The Sabres may end up being much better and Vegas worse with Jack and there and his cap hit taking up 1/8th of the cap room. If I'm in Vegas, I need Jack to produce the last few games in wins to get them into the playoffs, be a point-per-game guy in these playoffs with the team winning at least a round, AND follow up next year with a season taking them to the playoffs and leading at least the team in scoring. Anything less than that, and I end up thinking Vegas lost that trade by a lot.

Ok, we have to keep in mind that scoring is up in the league across the board, so it is a bit easier to get points this year than in the past. But, yes, Skinner is having or likely to have his best year producing points with Jack on one of the not-so-good teams. On the other spectrum, on a GREAT team Sam Reinhart is having his career year without Jack. Since returning to action, Jack is having his worst year in terms of points since his rookie year, and it is now clear this version of the Sabres are producing points better without him than the last version of them was with him.....and Vegas is producing points with him less than they were without him. Maybe next year after a full offseason of 'healing', he'll turn things around, but almost EVERY meaningful metric we choose to look at points to him being a good, but VERY over-rated player when it comes to team and teammate success. Skinner's success is just one sign of this. It is hard to think of a young 'superstar' player in any league (other than ones with career ending injuries or massive legal trouble) that have fallen as far as Eichel has in the past 24 months...not only in public opinion among Sabres fans but also around the league (does ANYONE close to the league even consider him a top 10 player at the moment). The only way he salvages anything is if Vegas makes the playoffs, wins at least 1 round (preferably 2) and he is a point-per-game player during that playoff run. To bring this back to the topic....it does appear Skinner did not 'need' jack in anyway, and is evolving or flourishing as a player with different teammates. As others have said, did/does Skinner need a vacuum to step into? Is he benefiting by addition by subtraction or other players he played with?

Fans will start coming back pretty quickly when the team shows they are going to be a serious playoff contender for 30-40 games. If they are in playoff position next season once the NFL season comes to an end the arena should be mostly filled on a nightly basis.

Talent vs Culture? I personally still think talent wins out. At least short term...a slightly more talented player will make your team better than one with even just a little less talent. HOWEVER, I equate a large part of 'culture' to 'wanting to be here'. It is obvious that Adams is a big believer in the 'wants to be here' thing. That is big for me also. For me there are 2 ways to enjoy a sports season: 1.) Win the championship 2.) Exceed expectations. Championships aren't all that matters...'enjoying the ride' is good for me as long as you exceed the expectations I had for you. If you aren't going to win it all, exceed expectations. And if you are going to exceed expectations, for ME, I want to feel like tall the players 'want' to be here. That is one of the biggest things for me as a fan of a team.

And I'm fine with it, but any upgrades will happen in the offseason....including Mitts getting healthy (if he isn't 100% now) and the young guys developing into a new season. Point is while the games are fun for me now because they are winning, the next step isn't being taken now...any step (large or small) will be taken in the offseason or early next season.

I understand the concept of the thread, 'hating' the season is over when they are playing pretty well, but for me, its time. Yes, they are playing well, but even if a new season started today, this team isn't a cup contender. How they are playing now is the VERY WAY we hoped this season would end when that time came. That goal achieved. Now the offseason is the next step to look forward to.

I see no reason to trade Girgensons and have zero desire to do so. He is actually pretty productive for a 4th line guy. He is an above average skater. You have relied on him to be one of your better penalty killers for years. He is one of your captains, and by all indications wants to be here and his teammates look up to him as a leader. Oh, and its not like he is hanging onto his career by a thread, he is only 28 years old and is a 15 goal-per-82 game guy the last 2 seasons. If Buffalo didn't have Girgensons, he is a guy that I would WANT them to go and get for my 4th line and penalty killing.

The entire season leading up to March 1....Olofsson had 1 PPG Since March 1, Olofsson has 6 PP goals. As Victor produces...so goes the PP.

I'm willing to pay more for tickets, more than the current prices by far, if I'm given a lot better experience like I've seen in other cities.

I agree 100%. Honestly, with the exception of maybe a few seats at the arena, as a hockey fan I can see things BETTER at home. If you want me to come out to the game these days, give me a reason to. Give me a reason to get a worse view from the 300 level or any level outside of the blue lines than I get at home. Again, I can see all I need to see of the game at home on a high def tv these days...that doesn't make me or anyone else less of a fan. Gone are the days of watching it on a 25" non-highdef tv with one single speaker. If you want many of us at the Arena, it isn't a matter of fans 'being soft' for wanting more, it is a matter of giving us a grade-A, top shelf night out to go with that game. Most other Arenas built near the time of the Key Bank center (Boston, Toronto, Philly to name a few) have undergone major renovations and are much better than the KBC (yes, I have been to a few of them in the past 5 years). Some of the newer Arenas (Detroit), blow it clean out of the water. Major upgrades are needed.

I was at an Amerks game where that happened when I was a little kid in the Aud.. Amerks playing in the aud....big pre-game brawl with no refs....the player "Andy Ristau" stands out in my head. 1987. here is a link. Me and my friend were standing in the front row of the oranges just watching it....https://www.upi.com/Archives/1987/04/17/A-brawl-before-an-American-Hockey-League-game-that/6488545630400/

I'm not totally sure why, but I am not super interested in the offseason at all this year. Just get me through it and get me to the games. Maybe its because I like the 'team building' phase that you to through getting to the top. I am having much more fun with Sabres talk, about the players, the direction of the team...than I am with the Bills. It wasn't always that way but it is now. Maybe its just because they finally have the QB, and while all the moves around him will matter...having the QB and just not MESSING UP BADLY the moves around him might be all you need, along with some luck. Give me week 1, update me on the moves you made in the offseason once the games start. I just can't get to 'hyped' up over every offseason move the Bills make until they are on the field.

Most of the Hasek Vezina seasons with the Sabres. Still were my favorite team, but for a few years I didn't get to see many games as I moved out of WNY then to the Boston area and was working so much I didn't have time to catch many games on cable (even when I COULD find a Sabres game to see)

I've posted on this thread a few times, and my thinking keeps changing in subtle ways. Goaltending is needed, but I'm good with planning for UPL to be hear next year full time, as long as you have a capable backup (nothing groundbreaking there). I don't need to see many free agent signings, certainly not anything close to the big money guys. Also, don't need any signings or trades for 'veteran leadership guys'. I think this team has what they need there already. I'd like to see just subtle changed to the core. Lets see if Quinn and JJP can make the roster....see if Mitts and Cozens show more production. Power develops and Dahlin goes from a top 20 D-guy (what he has been playing like the past couple months) to a top 10 guy. IF those things happen this team will be fine on the ice. If they don't, then you can make moves early in the season next year to address those issues. This isn't a playoff team and probably won't be next year, but I'm happy with seeing where they can go with most of what they have here now (goaltending obviously is the biggest concern for Wins though)

Better in which way? How do you define what/who is a better hockey player? Do you value a 2-way guy who is very valuable across all 200 feet and can win you a lot of faceoffs? Who is going to give you no less than 15 goals a year? Who has never hit 30 in his career but averages more than 20? Then ROR is better than Tage to you.. Do you value a forward that might give you 40+ goals in a season and already has given you 30+? A guy that has the potential, a ceiling, to double the 'average' goal output of the other guy, and is just entering the prime of his career, where ROR is going into his 14th season next year and likely past his peak? Then Tage is better than ROR for you.

I could go pretty deep into this.... There are a lot of players in many sports who have 'more talent' and at one point are 'projected' to be better players, but it just doesn't work out. A lot of pre-draft hype is based on skating speed, how hard your shot is, and how well you can dominate teenage competition that will never get to the NHL level. The Scouts are good at digging deeper than just that, but they aren't always right. We have to get the word "generational" out of our minds when we discuss Eichel, and just look at the production he gives in the NHL and not a projection of what was fed to us when he was a teenager himself. Could Jack have a career path that is 'good' to 'very good' without ever maintaining superstar status? Is it possible he ends up being a 'top 30' forward in the nhl (meaning 25-35) instead of a top 5 guy ever? Lets give it another year in Vegas where he had more time 'to heal', but that is a possibility. And if that IS a possibility, is it also possible that Tage can achieve that same level? I think it is. So to respond to the topic...it is NOT outrageous to ask the question because the answer might be different than what a lot of people believe now. Many 'think' Eiche is more talented than Tage because we were told he was 7 years ago, and because we think he is a faster skater (we can see that with our own eyes). But maybe hockey talent favors Tage's reach, his size, his shot accuracy.....maybe Tage's 'hockey sense' and 'vision' have developed over the last few years better than Jacks. Maybe those things that actually are ways to measure 'talent' have swung in Tage's favor. If, IF, Tage is 'more talented' than Eichel in his shot accuracy, release, height/reach, ability to read a play and know when too shoot....are we just to default to saying Eichel is more talented because his shot is almost as good AND he skates faster and we were told he was more talented years ago? Is it possible Jack could have come out of the draft viewed as 'almost generational', had his 'career' year a few years into his career (still only being about 10th in scoring that year), and for the rest of his career be a very good/star player without even coming close to his pre-draft hype? Maybe. Maybe not. It is a possibility. Despite all his talent, Jack may be a 30-35 goal-per-year guy who tops out at about 40 in his best years. -Is it possible that Tage at center develops into a player that is more productive than that? Its possible and the question is fair to ask (but must be backed up with more than 1 great season to ensure this just isn't his 'career' year) Other examples where this happened and people were SURE the player in question was greater than they ended up being: -Sammy Watkins. When drafted was the obvious best/most talented WR in that draft by a lot, and through the first couple years of his career he held that opinion by many. However, as the years went by, it was clear he wasn't going to live up to the 'hype' of his talent and the quick snapshot of his early career success. -I can think back to Taylor Hall when he was drafted. Not quite considered 'generational', but for sure considered better than a typical first overall pick with Superstar status attached to him. He had one MVP year in his career year...beyond that, hasn't lived up to the hype. -Ryan Nugent Hopkins. He came from a great draft class, but it wasn't a suprise he went first overall, he was the 'best' talent, far better than the players selected after him....Landeskog, Huberdeau, Zibanejad, Scheifle. Does that make Hopkins a Bust? No, hes a very good player, just it took a few years for people to realize despite his 'pure talent' and 'pre draft hype', he was just that...good to very good, not a superstar. There are many, many other examples of course. We will probably have our answer in the next 12 months. Can Eichel make the jump to be a consistent top 5 scorer in this league and carry a team on his back into and through the playoffs? Or is he just what we have seen so far...a guy who you rely on for 30 goals per year...who can top out in the low 40s and maybe, MAYBE in one of his career years crack the top 10 in scoring?

If Sam would have elected to stay in Buffalo, he likely would have retained his position as a Center that Granato put him in last year. With Reinhart as a Center, would Thompson ever been given the chance to play center then? Sam isn't here and he didn't want to be, but IF the Sabres had convinced him to stay with a big enough deal, you may not have the Tage you have now playing center..you may instead have a 15 goal-per-year Tage playing on the wing where he never seemed to excel.

Oakville, ON kid....when he does play for the Amerks, family/friends will be able to take just a 2.5 hour drive to see him play. Only about an hour from Buffalo too.