7+6=13

We all understand what you're saying but I personally just think you're a year or two early on being outraged that there is nothing. Pros weren't producing last year - I just don't see how a young player could - I think that's why most of the "hockey" guys/gals on this site put that on Bylsma. Second the Rochester situation was a total mess and that has been put on Murray appropriately. How anyone can think a player coming out of a failing program like Rochester to a failing offense in Buffalo and shine is somewhat unrealistic - unless he's some phenom. JBot has clearly made a huge effort to change Rochester. In saying that, I'd reserve judgment on Murray's drafting by itself and subsequently the players themselves.

Some were wondering what we had in jeffsmagic - here he is. See how he shifts it into things like "man up" and tries to bait you into being as ridiculous as he is. He'll go away in a couple of weeks and go back to TBD. He'll then get suspended again and be back for another short stint. He's so angry at the mods over there that he won't be able to control his emotions. He'll want everyone to know how wrong they were and he'll get his hand slapped again. Instead of calming down, realizing we're all fans of the same teams and have different takes - it must turn into an insult laden argument. This will be the last time I respond to him. Just though it was important to expose him to you.

How do you do that with a bottom 5 team and you're a bad coach? #exposed

You're right that is obvious. Absolutely. Since we're so inept, have such a lack of talent, and didn't do an actual coaching search because Pegula is an idiot and Russ Brandon was involved - you should see the Bills has a bottom team in the league. If we are in the top 5 in next years draft you win - if we're outside of the top in the draft I win. The loser never posts on Sabrespace again.

I'm not sure why he was banned but I know I can find out. He's the type of vitriolic poster that incites the worst in other people. Everyone is frustrated the Bills haven't made the playoffs but most fair minded people or those of us with a little age under our belts understand there's no other choice but to see how they play. Magic is the type that has a need to make you feel supid if you're not angry. He'll then point to things that haven't happened and things he can't possibly know about as definitive truths. Then when called out on it he brings up the past - which of course show ineptitude but that's how he supports his predictions and things he can't know. It never stops and quickly becomes an argument and not a discussion - which is what most people want to do - discuss and express opinions. You've all heard it hear before relative to the Sabres. He'll just throw out Marrone, Brandon, EJ, Winfield, Gillislee and on and on and on. If you don't go along with his negative emotional responses than he reverts to thinking you're a sheep and round and round and round. In the end it doesn't make sense. If you're that upset don't follow the team - why would you care to stir up the people that do? It's because he goes right back to his foolish thinking that fans shouldn't put up with this. He actually believes that's a real thing.

Guys I'm telling you from experience. I have nearly 10,000 posts on TBD - don't engage him, he makes circular arguments about predicting the future by using the past ineptitude of the organization. You can't convince, win or anything else with someone like that. Avoid!

Hardly. They didn't pick up his 5th year option so the Bills were letting him go.

I'd look beyond just last year. Duchene is the better player. 5 out of Kane's 8 years in the league he's had more goals than assists. That's hard to do and I don't mean that in a good way. He just has to contribute more to others scoring but I don't see it happening. If he was part of the deal, it's a no brainer, and I like Kane.

I don't see any of these as good options for the Sabres. I just wouldn't create a hole on defense just to have an offensive player somewhat better than Kane or Okposo. In addition it's just getting that offensive player now vs waiting 2-3 years for talent we think is currently in our system.

There's never evidence with him. He simply cannot wrap his mind around the fact that anything the Bills did prior to their ownership has nothing to do with them. That it's actually a fact and saying "same old Bills" is just lazy thinking. It's just easier for him to understand - I assume for coping reasons. They haven't tried to find a QB - blah blah blah. They spend almost nearly to the cap because they're just trying trick me into buying tickets - blah blah blah. I pretend to know Russ Brandon's impact - blah blah blah.

IMO the case your trying to make is much more difficult than making the playoffs. That's a lot that would have to go wrong. I find it unlikely that Housley's system will create "big time growing pains". It will definitely be a work in progress that hopefully gets better and better - but it's no secret that most players hated Bylsma's system so there should be a certain level of excitement. In addition there's potentially 8 new players on the roster that didn't play in the old system and there's many vets that have played in multiple systems that could pick it up faster than you think. A healthy Eichel and Okposo with an improved defense alone is reason to debate it's a playoff team - add in another factor or two and the debate is legit.

I think so too. He's what you get at that price point too.

He'll be close. I think he'll be around that low 70's point mark.

I don't have near the hockey knowledge you do but the moment he was traded for my thought was he was brought in for Eichel. The perfect player until a young gun is ready. The reason I say that is he's got a high hockey IQ. IMO we do not have a player other than Kane that can handle the quick thinking passes Eichel delivers - but Kane doesn't give that in return. Pominville can be in the right spot and also recognize when another player is in the right spot. I understand he's not the same Pominville and asking him to play 5-6 more minutes compared to last year and 3 more minutes than the 2 prior years could be an issue. Heck I don't know enough to understand if a star players line mates play similar numbers as the star - but I'm pretty sure I don't want Zemgus or Baptiste getting those kind of minutes. At least I don't think I do.

Well it was something to get the discussion going. Looks like I accomplished that.

Really? I've admitted this before that I picked up trying to totally understand hockey later in life. I'm blown away that you guys see that as ideal for Eichel. Hey, I learn a lot from you guys and a lot of reading/watching. I've been shocked before - maybe this is another one of those times.

If Reinhart isn't at center who do you see there beside Eichel and O'Reilly? Larrson from your wish lineup - who's the 4th? You think he's a healthy scratch? No Rochester? Do you see Moulson getting the same treatment?

You don't need to worry about either of these things happening. Do you not see what they're building?

Oh ok. The only reason I did that was I like that he'll dig in the corners and can get the puck out or over to Reinhart - which is where he thrives IMO. Reinhart that is. When a puck gets to him out of the corner or when he's getting it himself he creates. I get what you're saying but you have to know they're not putting Zemgus and Baptiste with Eichel.

Are you saying that about Zemgus? That's definitely an out of the box lineup. I like the thought and you're a smart guy but I've got to give Eichel more than that. I don't see 75-85 points coming from Eichel with that line. We've got to give him at least one of Pominville or Kane but I think Pominville would be ideal - he knows what spot to be and Jack would thrive in the passing game with that kind of player.

I was suggesting putting Larsson to wing with Reinhart - then Zemgus to center on the 4th line. I wouldn't necessarily want to do that because if Nylander were to make the team, I wouldn't want him with Zemgus.

Do you think he's Rochester material only? I don't like him but there's not a lot to choose from and he'd bring some toughness to that line or bring Girgensons down to center the 4th and Larsson to wing. Maybe Nylander can work his way up to that line?

I agree but I think he's a better center option than Girgensons. Need him on the line with Nylander whom would perish with Zemgus.

Pouliot - O'Reilly - Okposo Kane - Eichel - Pominville Deslauriers - Reinhart - Girgensons Moulson - Larsson - Nylander I have no idea what to do with players like Malone, Bailey, Josefson, Baptiste, Fasching and Rodrigues

JBot had a lot of work to do and I think goaltender will be a position he addresses next off season. Lehner obviously has an opportunity but JBot wasn't giving him a long term deal. I think the one year deal is more of a band aid than a prove it deal.