nfreeman

Awesome.

From an excellent, and long, Q&A with Graham and Vogl on the Athletic: https://theathletic.com/1760887/2020/04/20/live-qa-with-tim-graham-and-john-vogl-on-tuesday-4-21-from-1-2-p-m-et/

Good.

It’s unusual to see a new poster with this much certitude combined with this poor of a grasp of the facts.

Wow.

...edited Hank's post to hide the spoilers. (Sorry Hank -- but I thought since the show told one continuous story for 6 years, it was worth hiding the very end.)

"On a hunch" appears to animate most of your posts on this topic. In addition to -- proudly, it appears -- assuming that they aren't charitable based on zero facts, what boxes are you checking off based on hunches? Drugs? Racism? Brothels? Fraud? Which family members do your hunches tell you are indulging in these vices? How certain are you? You've mentioned a few times that you don't subscribe to the Athletic. Were you able to read the full story, or is your description of it as "brilliant" and "reveals a lot" also based on a hunch? As for superyacht and family lifestyle -- are they not allowed to own a fancy yacht? Are they not allowed to have/enjoy their lifestyle?

He is The One.

JFC. Every now and then the fear and loathing come bubbling up, innit? What exactly is "toxic" about them? They made a zillion dollars, bought our sports teams, kept them here, threw a ton of money at them AND at developing downtown Buffalo -- neither of which anyone else was willing to do or has ever done -- created a bunch of jobs, made some mistakes along the way, got the Bills from Mickey Mouse status to respected, professional franchise, haven't been able to do so yet with the Sabres but not for lack of trying, and are now -- like many other sports owners in an unprecedented situation -- trying to control spending. Are they getting arrested for fraud like Rigas? Are they alienating everyone they come into contact with like Dan Snyder? Are they racists like Donald Sterling or Marge Schott? Are they drug fiends like Jim Irsay? Are they looking the other way when their players repeatedly commit sociopathic acts like many NFL owners? Are they running brothels -- and joining in the fun -- like Jerry Jones? Are they continuously beefing with franchise icons like James Dolan? Are they blackmailing the city for a new stadium while gutting the team like Jeff Loria? No, they aren't. And do you have any information whatsoever about their charitable donations? Or are you just assuming that because you've heard of the Penn State hockey donation but not anything else (other than, I suppose, the Covid-related donation they just made to WNY) that there is nothing else?

Great show, right?

But this essentially assumes away the key point: players come and go. Owners willing to spend to the cap, fund fancy facilities, scouting departments, etc. for an NHL team in Buffalo are like unicorns. I agree with most of this, but the bolded IMHO needs the additional factor of being willing to spend what it takes to be competitive. Ralph didn't do this for the last 15 years or so and the Bills became a joke of a franchise. OSP didn't either and Black Sunday, followed by a generation in the desert, was the result. This is another huge and critical assumption that isn't borne out by the facts.

God bless you and your family, @spndnchz.

You're referring to the $50MM in losses over the past few years mentioned in the article? How much would you like to share?

Didn't he...y'know...kidnap and kill someone?

I agree with this and with most of what you've said in this thread. I do think though that there are 2 more questions: 1. Are the Pegulas competent at building a good organization, which presumably would lead to good on-ice results? 2. Are they greedy, insensitive jerks? I think the article today essentially argues that the answers to both of these are "no." Now, was the article -- and the assertions it made -- somewhat overblown and sensationalized, and likely based on sour grapes from people who have been let go? Yes, almost certainly. But it's undeniable that there has been a ton of turnover at PSE, and that the on-ice results have been awful. So it's not unreasonable for people to connect the dots, and for people to be skeptical about the Pegulas until they demonstrate that they deserve the benefit of the doubt. OTOH, one might think that their development efforts in Buffalo, their charity and the success with the Bills would buy them more goodwill than they seem to be getting here. Of course, this is a Sabres board, and the Sabres have been freaking terrible.

No. According to the article, there was a management presentation that included a powerpoint presentation, in which 1 of the slides laid out 3 main Pegula family goals: win championships, sustainability, and return on investment. The ROI goal included a sub-heading that read "fund businesses, taxes, lifestyle." The article also said: In other words, the 3rd of 3 articulated goals was for the business to pay for itself as well as to contribute to the family's lifestyle -- i.e. to turn a profit that the family could use to live large, or give to charity, or do whatever else they want with it. So, nothing too inflammatory or nutty there, although it was probably pretty tone-deaf to include "lifestyle," since it's pretty clear that they live quite large and it didn't need to be waved in everyone's faces that they intend to keep doing so.

Or that they won't fire him because they are sure he's an honorable guy, as compared with the scoundrels they've had to get rid of.

I was thinking the same thing -- maybe this embarrasses them enough so that they prioritize bringing in good people to run things.

The article certainly doesn't paint a pretty picture. It sounds like there are a lot of employees who don't like or trust the Pegulas, and that the Pegulas feel the same way about a lot of the people they've let go. A few more nuggets:

I don't think this is correct. Link?

Good stuff in here boys.

Sweet goal by Matt Ellis!

I generally agree, although I think it's pretty close to a lock that the cap is lower next year. I was just responding to a post that had stated with certitude that the cap is not decreasing next year.

He had some nice moments:

Sometimes I feel like I too am stricken with a dark hockey pathology!