That Aud Smell Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 So you are advocating what, exactly? I was fairly imprecise, rambling in that post, wasn't I? :bag: And I hear you on all counts, Free. You make valid points about how Kotalik is a more probable piece of the Cup puzzle this year than is Paille (I'm not factoring in Stafford, btw). What I'm envisioning with Kotalik is in the way of a salary dump. I realize the move would have risks -- very real ones -- but I think there are more, and worse, risks associated with the current direction/situation. I'm not saying the franchise will go my route -- not at all. But it is the move I would make ... you know, since I'm, like, super close to becoming an NHL GM and all. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 This must be the best thread ever. People are saying that Kotalik to too good to be traded and he brings way too much to the table and on the flip side, people saying he holds minimal value and many teams wouldn't really want him with his contract. lol Kotalik has a very nice shot, has 6 goals, awesome whist shot and can hit when need-be. There would be many teams, many up-and coming teams, who would love to have Kotalik on their roster right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Kotalik has a very nice shot, has 6 goals, awesome whist shot and can hit when need-be. There would be many teams, many up-and coming teams, who would love to have Kotalik on their roster right now. Yeah but "many" becomes "maybe a few" who have the cap space and would be willing to give up something the Sabres can use ... of course MANY teams would just TAKE him on the roster. Probably all 29 other teams would just TAKE him for nothing. (As opposed to Peters, with whom we'd have to offer a bag of pucks and a bucket of wings to get anyone to take him.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Yeah but "many" becomes "maybe a few" who have the cap space and would be willing to give up something the Sabres can use ... of course MANY teams would just TAKE him on the roster. Probably all 29 other teams would just TAKE him for nothing. (As opposed to Peters, with whom we'd have to offer a bag of pucks and a bucket of wings to get anyone to take him.) I don't know the list of clubs with their salery cap status, so i don't know, but you can't tell me Chicago wouldn't be interested, knowing next season Havlat and Hanzsus are gonna be ready to go, and they have 3 solid NHL probable all-stars on defense, and if they add Kotalik, he's locked for a few years, it's like making a off-season spash for a late season playoff run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I don't know the list of clubs with their salery cap status, so i don't know, but you can't tell me Chicago wouldn't be interested, knowing next season Havlat and Hanzsus are gonna be ready to go, and they have 3 solid NHL probable all-stars on defense, and if they add Kotalik, he's locked for a few years, it's like making a off-season spash for a late season playoff run. Again, of COURSE they would be INTERESTED, any team would be interested, but the whole Seabrook rumor made no sense. They are bleeding money like the Sabres of 2002, drawing 8,000 a game, and they are going add salary and deal a defensemen who could be a cornerstone in their rebuilding? What else do they have that the Sabres want or need? Besides draft picks, and I'm sorry, they are not getting a 1st rounder for Kotalik. And like freeman said, it's hard to justify trading a veteran for a draft pick when you are trying to make a Cup run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Again, of COURSE they would be INTERESTED, any team would be interested, but the whole Seabrook rumor made no sense. They are bleeding money like the Sabres of 2002, drawing 8,000 a game, and they are going add salary and deal a defensemen who could be a cornerstone in their rebuilding? What else do they have that the Sabres want or need? Besides draft picks, and I'm sorry, they are not getting a 1st rounder for Kotalik. And like freeman said, it's hard to justify trading a veteran for a draft pick when you are trying to make a Cup run. It all matters what kind of mindset you're in. Do you believe Connolly will return? When we have the league locked up, i'd prefer giving a few nights off, like to Teppo to play a Paetsch or Funk late in the season but if we keep everyone, we can't, and that's just assuming we arn't hit with a bunch of injuries later on. What i am saying is, if Connolly does return, it's gonna be pretty obvious that either Biron or Kotalik will need to be gone. I think everyone can agree on that. If we end up keeping Kotalik, and can't play Connolly, it'd be a shame, it's a risk but Connolly playing is much more of a player to our lineup then Kotalik. And i'm not saying trade Kotalik for a pick. Trading him for a cheap defensman with potential. I know Seabrook was probably too good to be true, but something along those lines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetweenThePipes00 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 When we have the league locked up, ... OK, I don't care if this is the best Sabres team of all time, I can't envision a time when they have anything so "locked up" that they can start resting people like the Bills when they used to lock up home field advantage. They are off to an amazing start and plenty of teams are still within striking distance. Technically, Ottawa got off to a better start last season (19-3) and they still got caught by both the Sabres and Canes in the win column. What i am saying is, if Connolly does return, it's gonna be pretty obvious that either Biron or Kotalik will need to be gone. I think everyone can agree on that. I'll defer to dave_b on that one ... Connolly was counting against the cap at the beginning of the year, so they were under the cap with his number in there. Whether or not it was far enough to accomodate all the call-ups, I don't know. But they will not need to clear the full amount of Connolly's deal to bring him back, so they don't HAVE to move $2million+ Either way, if Connolly is healthy and the Sabres need to make a move, it will not be a secret. Every team in the league will know they have to make a move, and that will make it hard to get fair value for anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knightrider Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I am starting to realize that Timmy isn't going to come back this year. The Sabres are trying very hard to allow it to happen, but every call up is another hammer striking a nail in the coffin that contains Tim's 2006-2007 season. Once that is understood, the Sabres really don't have a cap problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I'll defer to dave_b on that one ... Connolly was counting against the cap at the beginning of the year, so they were under the cap with his number in there. Whether or not it was far enough to accomodate all the call-ups, I don't know. But they will not need to clear the full amount of Connolly's deal to bring him back, so they don't HAVE to move $2million+ Either way, if Connolly is healthy and the Sabres need to make a move, it will not be a secret. Every team in the league will know they have to make a move, and that will make it hard to get fair value for anyone. In the regular season, provided the team doesn't try to bring players in whose total average cost is greater than Timmy's average salary, the team has no issues with bringing Timmy back. They just have to send the replacement players back to the minors. If they try to bring in players whose aggregate average salary is greater than Timmy's, that is where they run into issues with having to trade someone away or send additional people to the minors or cutting someone outright to bring Timmy back. So for the regular season, the Sabres could fairly easily run with a 23 man roster up until the day that Timmy is cleared to play. The playoffs are an interesting beast though. After the trade deadline, teams are allowed to have as many players on the roster as they want provided they don't exceed the salary cap. Which means in the regular season, at the end of the year, the Sabres will be bringing few guys up, and if Timmy is back, nobody up. That is very simple and straight forward. I'm not sure if the Sabres could bring in extra players in the playoffs or not. I THINK they can, because players don't get paid by their teams in the playoffs but am not positive about that because the salary cap is a hard number THROUGH the playoffs. I know guys would still have to clear the callup waivers if they made too much money (which isn't an issue with anyone currently in Ra-cha-cha but would be an issue for Peters if the Sabres wanted to send him down and then bring him back (for some very unclear reason) during the playoffs), so teams wouldn't be able to stash high priced guys in the minors to bring them up for the playoffs. As I stated, I think the Sabres could bring a bunch of Amerks up after the playoffs started as insurance against injuries, but the CBA doesn't EXPLICITLY say they can. If anyone has a direct line to Darcy, this would be a real good question to ask, because I see it as another gray area that isn't directly addressed in the CBA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Dave, I was wondering the same exact thing about the playoffs. My take is the same as yours, but there's no actual CBA quote I can back that up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deluca67 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 paille is a MAJOR upgrade over peters... you've gotta find a way to keep him up when roy gets back. maybe sit kotalik or novotny for a game and remind them of some things... Do you send stafford back and keep paille in his place? who knows at this point. Why do you always have to rag on Peters? :nana: That's my job :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Dave, I was wondering the same exact thing about the playoffs. My take is the same as yours, but there's no actual CBA quote I can back that up with. Actually, there is one other item in the CBA that makes me believe our take as being the correct one. The BLTI-IR is explicitly only used during the regular season. Since there is no other way to add players beyond one's salary cap when major injuries occur, I come to the conclusion that, due to a technicality, the salary cap isn't in effect once the playoffs occur. That technicality is: a team isn't accruing salary as all players have already been fully paid. The team can't exceed the cap because no $'s are getting charged against the cap. As mentioned earlier, any attempts to sneak high priced players back up could be thwarted by another team claiming the player on recall waivers. So, unless I hear otherwise, I am assuming (there's that word) that we are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two or less Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 I'm a believer that Connolly will return, but if you don't, then i can definetly see the arguement for keeping Kotalik and not dealing him for money cap relief. But, like i said, i really think he's coming back. He just has to, it'd be the perfect ending, the guy was dissed and killed by everyone and their mothers, and then he returns from the dead and leads us to the Finals.... what a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Actually, there is one other item in the CBA that makes me believe our take as being the correct one. The BLTI-IR is explicitly only used during the regular season. Since there is no other way to add players beyond one's salary cap when major injuries occur, I come to the conclusion that, due to a technicality, the salary cap isn't in effect once the playoffs occur. That technicality is: a team isn't accruing salary as all players have already been fully paid. The team can't exceed the cap because no $'s are getting charged against the cap. As mentioned earlier, any attempts to sneak high priced players back up could be thwarted by another team claiming the player on recall waivers. So, unless I hear otherwise, I am assuming (there's that word) that we are correct. So players on two way deals get screwed over, other than any cut of the playoff money that they might get. Sure, most of these guys are just practicing and never play, but there are some cases (and we know them all too well) where they actually play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 So players on two way deals get screwed over, other than any cut of the playoff money that they might get. Sure, most of these guys are just practicing and never play, but there are some cases (and we know them all too well) where they actually play. I'm not sure I fully understand your comment. If you are referring to them getting yo-yo'd back and forth during the regular season to keep the team's costs down, you are correct. If you're referring to guys getting called up in the playoffs and only getting paid a playoff bonus, I guess you could look at it as they're getting screwed, but I wouldn't. I'd look at it as they are getting a chance to be a part of the playoff atmosphere and some of them even get to play. I don't think it will be that big of an issue this off-season, as the Amerks will almost certainly make the playoffs and they should go at least a couple of rounds. The Sabres won't be bringing any more Amerks up than they need to have with the team (unlike last year when pretty much everyone that was a Sabres property except McMorrow and 1 or 2 others got called up). Either way, for as long back as I can remember, players have always gotten only playoff bonus money in the playoffs. So I don't really see that as a huge issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 And I'm assuming they actually have to play in the playoffs to get any bonus. If that's the case, they do get screwed out of some money, but in the big picture, I'm sure they love the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 And I'm assuming they actually have to play in the playoffs to get any bonus. If that's the case, they do get screwed out of some money, but in the big picture, I'm sure they love the experience. You are probably correct, but how the playoff money gets divvied up is totally up to the NHLPA. So if those guys have issues, they should take them up at the next union meeting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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