Claude_Verret Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 I'm not surprised at all if the slug jerseys are indeed the best selling jerseys in the league. I said awhile ago that the new jerseys would sell even if the logo was a steaming pile of Buffalo dung (and that ain't too far from reality unfortunately). Why? It's simple really. People by and large are lemmings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Yes the whole world is trying to get the people of Buffalo to buy the new merchandise!!!! LQ has paid off everyone. The Buffalo media wasn't enough, now he's paying off national media. All part of his campaign to create the allusion that people actually like the ne logo. He will stop at nothing!!!!! .....give me a break. The new Sabres jerseys are basically the flagship uniforms for the new tight-fitting jersey style that the entire league is adopting next season. That's the reason there are no horizontal lines on the uniform at all and the design is basically a "Broncos" football design. The NHL and Reebok do have an interest in promoting the idea that fans like these things. The whole thing probably went something like this: Nike's Olympic uniforms get generally good reviews, so Rbk says we'll do the same thing for the NHL - sleeker, form-fitting, new designs, it'll be great. NHL GM's shoot down the form-fitting look, but Rbk still wants to modernize the jerseys. So they do some mockups of new jerseys, do some market research and tells the NHL how much more money it can make on jersey sales with a redesign of other teams. Rbk & the league pick the Sabres for the sleeker redesign, knowing the Sabres are the hot pick for this year, and knowing that Sabres fans are ready to pony up big $$$ due to the excitement from such lofty expectations. New sweaters are nice looking, logo design is horrible, so the team (maybe LQ) gives the fans a little something - they invoke the vintage sweater to quell the uproar. The league says fine, makes sure the only sweaters available for sale nationally are the new ones, ensuring their success, and Rbk & the NHL can point to the Sabres' new uniform "success" when pitching the redesign option to other teams. As part of the league-wide marketing, the NHL instructs their broadcast partner to talk up the success of the new jersey sales. The form-fitting uniforms are still going to happen. They're still slated for next season. The NHL form-fitting uniforms has been a years-long fiasco. The original prototypes were described as a cross between Olympic skiers and Spider-man. Reebok wanted every team to have tucked in jerseys and said every team would need a redesign because horizontal lines would no longer work. Supposedly Reebok has now dropped the idea of designing the jerseys to be tucked in and they are no longer saying they can't do horizontal lines (after so many teams complained about what would happen to their classic uniform designs). Unfortunately for the Sabres, they didn't take either dropped demand into account and our new uniforms follow a template the league is no longer following. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryg Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 OH PLEASE! THe slug is the top selling NHL jersey right now. Which means they've sold...10? 12? Who in the world is buying hockey jerseyes in October? People who live in places where there is new gear and new colors to buy and I bet the folks in Anahein aren't snapping up Ducks gear. If you're a fan of an established team with no new jersey design, you're not necessarily running out and getting a new one as soon as the season starts. Maybe for x-mas, but there's probably no hurry. The only slug sweaters being bought are by Sabres die-hards who would buy the sweater no matter what (and are). You don't have to be moving an awful lot of jerseys right now to be #1. As Mark Twin said, There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 OH PLEASE! THe slug is the top selling NHL jersey right now. Which means they've sold...10? 12? Who in the world is buying hockey jerseyes in October? People who live in places where there is new gear and new colors to buy and I bet the folks in Anahein aren't snapping up Ducks gear. If you're a fan of an established team with no new jersey design, you're not necessarily running out and getting a new one as soon as the season starts. Maybe for x-mas, but there's probably no hurry. The only slug sweaters being bought are by Sabres die-hards who would buy the sweater no matter what (and are). You don't have to be moving an awful lot of jerseys right now to be #1. As Mark Twin said, There are lies, there are damn lies and then there are statistics. Well considering they said that merchandise sales for the entire NHL are up 85% Maybe You anti slug, everyone hates this logo, we will force them to go back to the original people are just in the minority? Maybe the fans of the team don't mind the new logo? Maybe they bought a new jersey to support the team because they could care less that the logo isn't great and just want to support the undefeated team? How come Anaheim's jersey isn't selling better if the slug is the worst logo in league history as some believe? Oh I forgot, they aren't hardcore hockey fans in Anaheim and its not a hockey town like Buffalo. The place that couldn't sell out every game until they made a run for the cup last year. Face it, the new jerseys are here to stay (for atleast 5-10 years until they decide they can make more money with another redesign), and as shocking as it might be, people may actually like it Now, I'm off to the store to get a new logo 76 Peters Jersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerryg Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 And then there are statistics. Overall NHL Merchandise sales are up 85%. What period is that comparison being made to? October of last year? How much stuff was the NHL selling the first month back after a year long lay off? Or maybe October of the prior year when there was no hockey? Unless you tell me what period we're comparing with then it's meaningless. And let's face it, if 1 jersey was sold in October of 05 and 2 were sold in October of 06 that's a 100% increase! As far as Anaheim goes, I did make that point in my prior post, Anaheim is not hockey country and there not going to move a lot of jerseys (a relatively pricey item) there. I stand by my theory that they don;t have to be selling a ton of slug merch to be #1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 And then there are statistics. Overall NHL Merchandise sales are up 85%. What period is that comparison being made to? October of last year? How much stuff was the NHL selling the first month back after a year long lay off? Or maybe October of the prior year when there was no hockey? Unless you tell me what period we're comparing with then it's meaningless. And let's face it, if 1 jersey was sold in October of 05 and 2 were sold in October of 06 that's a 100% increase! As far as Anaheim goes, I did make that point in my prior post, Anaheim is not hockey country and there not going to move a lot of jerseys (a relatively pricey item) there. I stand by my theory that they don;t have to be selling a ton of slug merch to be #1 Well, looking at the crowd in the arena, it looked like alot more then one person weraring a slug jersey, and alot of people where the new logo shirts and hats. But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking the new logo is a failure, keep believing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyFan T Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Well, looking at the crowd in the arena, it looked like a lot more then one person wearing a slug jersey, and a lot of people wear the new logo shirts and hats. But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking the new logo is a failure, keep believing I heard that claim on TV last night and was shocked. I figured they would sell some in Buffalo. You only need to walk through the food court at the Galleria Mall to see that people have pretty poor taste when it comes to fashion. But I figured there would be enough people boycotting the slug to keep it from being the top selling NHL jersey. Are there a lot of fans wearing the slug merchandise? I watched the entire game and only noticed the couple sitting behind the Sabres bench sporting the ugly attire. Maybe some fans who see the games live could shed some insight. Are there really a lot of fans wearing slug merchandise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Well, looking at the crowd in the arena, it looked like alot more then one person weraring a slug jersey, and alot of people where the new logo shirts and hats. But if it makes you sleep better at night thinking the new logo is a failure, keep believing The new logo could be Larry Quinn's face and it'd sell so long as it's blue and gold. There isn't nearly as much classic logo merchandise on sale. Let's see what happens when all three uniforms are available. Are there a lot of fans wearing the slug merchandise? I watched the entire game and only noticed the couple sitting behind the Sabres bench sporting the ugly attire. Maybe some fans who see the games live could shed some insight. Are there really a lot of fans wearing slug merchandise? I was at the home opener and last night's game. I think people are more drawn to the blue and gold than anything else. I've seen a lot of people with the new hats. The new jerseys in the crowd are still pretty sparse, probably because there are so few available (which of course plays into how poorly this uniform overhaul was handled). By contrast, there were WAY more red and black uniforms in the crowd early in the 96-97 season because they were available months in advance (I had a white goathead jersey in time for a preseason game that year). I think the throwbacks are going to be huge once they're available. They look the best when the players wear them and they look the best BY FAR on fans in the crowd (don't even get me started on how the white version of the banana slug looks like a mu-mu on people in the stands). Possibly the top reason merchandise is moving is because the team is AMAZING. There was a sprint to the merchandise stands during the second intermission last night (I ran over to look for a classic logo puck and maybe window decal). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 And then there are statistics. Overall NHL Merchandise sales are up 85%. What period is that comparison being made to? October of last year? How much stuff was the NHL selling the first month back after a year long lay off? Or maybe October of the prior year when there was no hockey? Unless you tell me what period we're comparing with then it's meaningless. And let's face it, if 1 jersey was sold in October of 05 and 2 were sold in October of 06 that's a 100% increase! As far as Anaheim goes, I did make that point in my prior post, Anaheim is not hockey country and there not going to move a lot of jerseys (a relatively pricey item) there. I stand by my theory that they don;t have to be selling a ton of slug merch to be #1 Jerry hit the nail on the head. Percentages are a weak measure of growth unless you understand the numbers they represent. What's 100% of 1....yup, 1. I'm not interested enough to search for the league's sales numbers, but I wouldn't take a couple lines from announcers (especially VS announcers) as gospel. Based on the crowd shots I saw.... again, not a good measure, I saw hats and T-shirts with the new design, but the Vintage (especially whites) and AGH jersey far outnumbered the new design. Does this mean the the new jersey isn't selling. No, but there's always been a good representation of the old B&G whites at Sabres games, but the amount seems to be growing. Additionally there seems to be agroup of people who either don't want to shell out the coin for the new stuff, or are perfectly happy with the AGH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 The NHL and Reebok do have an interest in promoting the idea that fans like these things. The form-fitting uniforms are still going to happen. They're still slated for next season. The NHL form-fitting uniforms has been a years-long fiasco. The original prototypes were described as a cross between Olympic skiers and Spider-man. Reebok wanted every team to have tucked in jerseys and said every team would need a redesign because horizontal lines would no longer work. Supposedly Reebok has now dropped the idea of designing the jerseys to be tucked in and they are no longer saying they can't do horizontal lines (after so many teams complained about what would happen to their classic uniform designs). Unfortunately for the Sabres, they didn't take either dropped demand into account and our new uniforms follow a template the league is no longer following. I've been looking everywhere to find something on the GM meeting from February where they voiced their displeasure with the idea of form-fitting jerseys, and this is the best I could find. It's a posting of a TSN article on a message board, which seems to indicate that the GM are pretty much against the idea of the form-fitting/tucked-in look: RBK, and the league head office, will maintain these new uniforms are a revolutionary step forward, that the integrated equipment and fabric will enhance safety and performance, that players will be more agile, better protected and their equipment will be much lighter and drier. But here's the rub. Hockey traditionalists, and that would be most of the GMs, don't like the look of them. Not a bit. One anonymous GM said: "Terrible. Just terrible. If we're forced to use them, well, we've got no choice, but if there's a choice, no way." I was at the home opener and last night's game. I think people are more drawn to the blue and gold than anything else. I've seen a lot of people with the new hats. The new jerseys in the crowd are still pretty sparse, probably because there are so few available (which of course plays into how poorly this uniform overhaul was handled). By contrast, there were WAY more red and black uniforms in the crowd early in the 96-97 season because they were available months in advance (I had a white goathead jersey in time for a preseason game that year). I think the throwbacks are going to be huge once they're available. They look the best when the players wear them and they look the best BY FAR on fans in the crowd (don't even get me started on how the white version of the banana slug looks like a mu-mu on people in the stands). Possibly the top reason merchandise is moving is because the team is AMAZING. There was a sprint to the merchandise stands during the second intermission last night (I ran over to look for a classic logo puck and maybe window decal). This is from a blogger who tried to find out if/when the 3rd jerseys would be available on Shop.NHL.com: Inquiries made through the Sabres website regarding the availability of the third jerseys to online buyers were referred to the NHL Online Store, as the NHL controls all aspects of the Sabres online store. Inquiries to the NHL Online Store Customer Service Department regarding the availability of the Third/Vintage jersey were answered that the Sabres Third/Vintage jerseys were not available for sale, and noted that, despite several other teams having their Third/Alternate jerseys available for sale on the site, that there was no information was currently available as to whether they would be made available for online purchase. It should be noted that the Third Jersey has been planned at least as early as mid-August, when Quinn held a press conference announcing their use, which only raises questions as to their current lack of availability to online buyers. As a result, it is obvious that the assertions in the NHL press release are undermined by the fact that any Sabres fan seeking a blue and gold jersey from the online store has no choice in the style of jersey that they purchase. Given that the NHL and Reebok International are pursuing uniform and equipment modifications, it can be reasonably inferred that the NHL would not permit fans to purchase the vintage uniforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 So why is additional revenue for this team such a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Who said it is? We're just pointing out that blowing your horn about an increase in sales percentages is sketchy at best, espcially considering the other factors, such as the vintage jersey not being available for sale until recently. Although I doubt we would ever see real numbers from the league or the team on what numbers make up this big %age increase, or a breakdown of new vs. vintage jersey sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 The 85% figure is an increase over sales at this time last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Here is a more recent article. Reebok came up with new materials that are lighter, that wick moisture off the skin and that stretch. It designed a look that is sleeker, and tighter, not unlike a football jersey, where players could move easier and skate faster. Original attempts were too tight, but Reebok came up with a prototype that many teams used in the 2006 Olympics in Italy. Even newer versions started appearing in practice jerseys at NHL rinks last season, and the final product is supposed to be unveiled at the All-Star Game in Dallas this season. Many teams already have done away with the striping, so this transition probably won't be as shocking as I think. But does this new look mean the Blackhawks and Rangers and Canadiens have to change their looks? Bill Daly, the NHL's executive commissioner, said horizontal striping is possible, but that it would probably negate some of the positive performance aspects of the new jersey. He said it was up to teams to decide what look they wanted for next season, when the NHL launches new sweaters for all teams. Designers would do well to remember two things: One, the main purpose of the hockey sweater is for fans to wear them in the stands. And two, hockey fans are generally a traditional lot ? much more like baseball than football or basketball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Who said it is? We're just pointing out that blowing your horn about an increase in sales percentages is sketchy at best, espcially considering the other factors, such as the vintage jersey not being available for sale until recently. Although I doubt we would ever see real numbers from the league or the team on what numbers make up this big %age increase, or a breakdown of new vs. vintage jersey sales. And if the old jerseys were available, Sabres jerseys would still be the top seller by an even wider margin. I don't see how that changes anything. By the way, the jerseys being the top seller isn't a statistic, it's a fact. Will it last? Who knows, but at this moment, they're selling better than anything out there. But go ahead and continue to spin your conspiracy theories (not directed at you specifically, but at everyone in this thread). It should make for an entertaining day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 The 85% figure is an increase over sales at this time last year. 1. Hockey wasn't all that popular in 2005 after the lockout. 2. There was no new merchandise in 2005. After 10 years of black and red, everyone already owned everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 1. Hockey wasn't all that popular in 2005 after the lockout. So the sport is regaining some of its popularity. Is this a bad thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robviously Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 So the sport is regaining some of its popularity. Is this a bad thing? :rolleyes: Obviously not, since I love hockey. But it does explain the 85% increase in sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 :rolleyes: Obviously not, since I love hockey. But it does explain the 85% increase in sales. People could have just as easily been turned off by the new product, leading in a further decrease in sales. I don't understand why people are trying to shoot down this increase. It's good for the league and it's good for us fans. Why this conversation has to go beyond that, I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Good points one and all. To recap, merchandise sales leaguewide were in the toilet last October. Does anyone know ANYONE who bought ANYTHING right when they started playing again? In Buffalo, I doubt many people bought much merchandise, although I bought my wife a Koho proweight Vanek because it was greatly reduced and I could still take my STH discount on top of it. Other than "close out" stuff, I doubt much merchandise was bought initially because the rink was only selling ~12,000 seats per game and the Sabres had told people that b&g would be coming out soon. I remember 1 poster claiming they'd start last season in B&G. People tend to hold off on buying something that they know is going to be "obsolete" in the near future, especially when the new stuff had the promise of being really good. (Remember, the belief (misguided as it was) was that the new unis would be an update on the originals.) The fact that people were still miffed that the league cancelled an entire year also probably had something to do with hurting merchandise sales last year. For this season, you have the Sabres coming off one of their best seasons ever with the majority of the team returning, many of them 1 year closer to their peak rather than 1 year further past their peak. The team could be better than last years simply due to how old the team is and their current experience level. There is an excitement that started last December which hasn't been seen in these parts for a VERY long time. There is more excitement for this team now than there was back in '98-'01. I think you have to go back to the late '70's to find the region this Sabre-crazy. Heck, the 1st day of Bills training camp, callers weren't calling in to WGR about the Bills, they were calling in about the unis and arbitration. People have seriously taken to this team and want to find a way to feel a part of it. Some of that is reflected in ticket sales. If the Sabres don't sell another ticket all season they will still have sold more tickets than they did all of last season. A lot of it is getting reflected in merchandise sales. People who haven't bought ANY Sabres merchandise in 2+ years (due to the lockout and the promise of B&G) have started buying what's available. The unis, minus the abominable snot smear, don't look horrible. (I actually like the way the blue one looks. The white one hasn't grown on me yet.) So people who want to feel a part of the groundswell go out and buy what they can. (Actually, this season I've bought about 7 t-shirts and 3 pucks. But not one has had the abominable snot smear on it.) I will be extremely surprised if when the league / Reebok / Sabres start making this year's 3rd available that it won't outsell the other 2 sweaters combined. I honestly haven't decided whether I think the 3rds aren't available due to incompetence in somebody's marketing department (NHL, Reebok, or Sabres) or if it is part of a CYA scheme to make the abominable snot smear not look like the disaster it is. It actually may be a combination. The 3rd sweater, according to NHL rules, is not allowed for a team making a uniform change. They have to wait 2 or 3 years to bring out a 3rd. A vintage uniform is allowed for teams with enough time in the league, but they are supposed to be TRUE vintage uniforms (see the Canucks vintage for example). When the "vintage" unis were unveiled, we were told the team HAD to keep the color the same as the old color. This would imply that the 3rds this year were supposed to be "true" vintage unis. However, they clearly aren't as they don't wear the old 3 stripe pants and the sweater has a number where one never existed before. Since the league changed their rules to that much of an extent that the Sabres' vintage unis are actually 3rds, the blue and gold should technically be the updated one of the new b&g because 3rd unis have to use colors on the existing primary unis and logo. By telling people the color will change in the next year or 2, the marketers may be trying to supress sales of the vintage, hoping that people won't buy it this year because they "won't look right" next year when the team makes them a darker blue. Every single media outlet (with the exception of Mike D'ohopp's one) has pointed out how terrible the Sabres new logo is. Darn near every one of them has stated that the logo on the 3rd sweater is "classic". It's not just a few of us "disgruntled old timers", check out other team's message boards. The Reebok project manager is the only person who actually likes the abominable snot smear AND think it represents something - "(t)he new Sabres uniform takes its inspiration from the original Sabres uniform (1971-96) and the second uniform (1996-2005). The design was a collaborative effort between the Sabres and Reebok International." Cough, cough, b/s. All this long winded (sorry Inky) spiel is getting at is, the Sabres will sell a lot of merchandise this season, but if the logo weren't an abominable snot smear and/or the 3rds were readily available, the team would sell a whole lot more. Sorry, but no matter how much abominable snot smear gets sold, the team could have sold a lot more. This was a "no brainer" and unfortunately it appears whoever was the driving force behind it has no brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 People could have just as easily been turned off by the new product, leading in a further decrease in sales. I don't understand why people are trying to shoot down this increase. It's good for the league and it's good for us fans. Why this conversation has to go beyond that, I don't know. The sales SHOULD be high right now - the Sabres are a Cup favorite, have started out 6-0 and rolled out shiny new jerseys. After making a deep playoff run last year, and the Bills continuing to struggle, Buffalo fans want to be associated with a winner. I said in the off-season that there would probably be three big merchandise pushes - when they first hit the shelves; around Christmas; and around the start of the playoffs. While Sabres merchandise is the hot item now, the true test will be after year one, how many people buy more stuff, and if they stick with the slug or if they move to the vintage. And while the increased merchandise sales are good for the league, it is funny that the increased merchandise sales release came just a couple days after the media started questioning Bettman about the league-wide overall attendance being slightly down. Sorry, but no matter how much abominable snot smear gets sold, the team could have sold a lot more. This was a "no brainer" and unfortunately it appears whoever was the driving force behind it has no brain. Dave, great post - and this is the best point in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
will Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 all i've seen of the team this season (since i live in boston with basic cable) has been highlights the morning after their games. and all i know for sure is that the vintage 3rds look a hell of a lot better than the snot smear sluggalo. it disgusts me that the slug is being forced down our throats without offering the vintage until a month into the season (i wouldn't be suprised if they aren't in households until after xmas...if nhl/rbk were smart about their tactics). having never been able to afford the luxury of a jersey until the original b&g was gone (i do like the agh that i have), i waited until the new design was revealed before plunking down any more coin for a second jersey. when i saw the new logo, i scoured the net (took a whole 3 minutes) for the old-school jersey, and bought it. i cannot understand how a professional sports franchise is allowed to take the ice with such a silly looking logo. to tell you the truth, i am suprised anaheim went ahead with their new color scheme and logo, as well. this modernization of the nhl is embarrassing. i was never a big fan of the plain looking red wings sweater, or the bland rangers sweater, but they're both looking pretty good this season. anyone think the bills ought to stick to their retro digs, too? love the lighter blue with the white helmets. same goes for the chargers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inkman Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 All this long winded (sorry Inky)... Is this because I mentioned how long winded you tend to be or is it because you think I'm too stupid to read that many words. :o :lol: :unsure: :angry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Well if the logo was as bad as everyone says, people wouldn't be buying it. It might not be the best but it isn't as bad as everyone here is making it out to be. Merchandise is selling and that is all that matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 18, 2006 Report Share Posted October 18, 2006 Dave, you're looking at this from a Buffalo only perspective. I was under the impression that the 85% increase was a league-wide figure. Yes, your points do cover an increase in Buffalo, but but that 85% increase was not covered by Buffalo fans alone. There's a lot of other things going on here: -the game is more entertaining -the emergence of new superstars, the Ovechkins and Crosbys of the league I think those are the two major one's, but I could go on and on here listing others. As I said earlier, it's a good sign for the league. Hopefully these number continue to increase (a little extra tv exposure sure as hell wouldn't hurt). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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