PTS Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 This is a very tidy deal. I think Max wants to be here. You crazy bastard Max - we didn't know how much you cared! Max is a very shy individual and I think he likes being comfortable. He's comfortable in Buffalo. He's comfortable with the team, the coaches, the players and us fans. I don't think he wants to start anew somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 From a financial perspective it's important to look at the cap $ vs. the salary $. http://members.shaw.ca/cdelosreyes/ If you click on BUF, you can see that current obligations show the Sabres at $38.1 MM in Cap $ vs. $34.8 MM in Salary $. Obviously it's important to leave some cap room in case of injury, but from a bottom line perspective the Sabres are actually only paying out $34.8 MM to the players. That's $3.3 MM less than the Cap amount; a significant chunk of cash, which most likely factors in to managing their profit margins. With an increase in season tickets, possible increase in revenue for merchandise, and a run into the playoffs, this will still leave the Sabres profitable. So, when we all play fantasy GM, keep in mind the difference between the Cap numbers and Salary numbers. This is also part of the reason why Darcy is signing the escalating contracts. But that does bring up some questions for the next couple seasons when all these salaries escalate. What happens when the total payrolls is even higher, will they dump salaries to stay out of the red? At this point, all I care about is the 06-07 season, but I can't help but think about the future. Well, there is one simple solution: go out and win the Cup. Then when you raise ticket prices to increase revenue, the fans will gladly pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Now, if average attendance increases by 4000 per game (assuming $60 per ticket), there is the extra $10 million. This is a bit of a reach. Unless all the tickets are in the lower bowl and at walk up price, the average price is not $60 per ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spandrel Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 But that does bring up some questions for the next couple seasons when all these salaries escalate. What happens when the total payrolls is even higher, will they dump salaries to stay out of the red? At this point, all I care about is the 06-07 season, but I can't help but think about the future. Well, there is one simple solution: go out and win the Cup. Then when you raise ticket prices to increase revenue, the fans will gladly pay. Exactly. If we can make another deep run in the Playoffs or (heavens forbid) win the Stanley Cup, the extra revenue should help offset the increased salaries. Let's hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 This is a bit of a reach. Unless all the tickets are in the lower bowl and at walk up price, the average price is not $60 per ticket. The average ST ticket price is ballpark $38. (I know walkups are much more expensive, but don't have the time or inclination to estimate it.) The Sabres averaged over 17,000 fans last season, so it will be tough to increase attendence by 4,000/game. My guess is that ticket revenues this year will go up ~$2MM. Concession sales will go up some, but I don't know whether Tom gets the bulk of the profits from that or whether Jacobs gets most of that. I think the concession loan was paid off when Tom bought the club but don't know that for certain. IF they didn't have that ridiculous stain as a logo, I'd expect merchandise sales to go up comparably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 This is a bit of a reach. Unless all the tickets are in the lower bowl and at walk up price, the average price is not $60 per ticket. Indeed. My statement was somewhat tongue in cheek. There is good reason to expect substantially higher gate revenues, but $10 million is not gonna happen. All the more reason to view our offseason resulting from Tom G deciding that he's OK with not much better than break-even as his best-case-scenario. And, for the record, like Hopelessly, I of course wanted to keep the team together. After that season, with that likable of a group, how could I not? I simply object to the proposition that Tom G or any other owner is a bad guy or a cheapskate if he chooses not to have a payroll that almost certainly guarantees him multimillion dollar losses. I also believe that recurring losses of that ilk would result in only one possible outcome -- losing our team. Unlike other posters I find this unacceptable and would rather get by with a lower-payroll team, knowing that this would likely result in a continuous stream of free agent losses. It certainly seems as if Tom has either decided (i) he enjoyed last year so much that he doesn't care about the risk of big losses, at least not for this year or (ii) even at a $40 million payroll level, the team can more or less break even due to increases in revenues. I think (ii) is much more likely and if so this would jibe with my understanding of PAFan's and APus' view -- ie if you build it they will come. So, gentlemen, I will gladly admit that you were right. It looks as though an extremely smart and successful businessman agrees with you, and that this sharing of views, if it extends to locking up Briere and Drury, and if the people do indeed fill up the building, watch the games on TV, support the sponsors, buy the merchandise, etc., will lead to our guys staying together for multiple future shots at glory. Does anyone know average attendance and average ticket price from last year? How long until we beat those CSs in Raleigh on opening night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 The more I think about it, I hope if someone goes it's not Max. I really started to like what I was seeing from him last year. Sure the average fan is not completely satisfied, but the average fan often doesn't look past the G column in the stat sheet. Max is not the best finisher, but he really showed some potential as a great playmaker last year. I don't consider myself the "average fan who only looks at the 'G' column" but I can't say I would be overly sad to see him go, especially now when he has a pretty decent trade value. Most knowledgable Sabres fans have been pretty patient with Max, waiting for the proverbial light to come on, for his hands to catch up to his feet, for him to recognize that he has four other guys on the ice with him, and that they can score (and help him score.) He finally has the breakout regular season we've been waiting for, then completely regresses in the playoffs, going from a player who used his vision, speed and playmaking ability to rack up 51 helpers in the regular season, to a guy who tried to beat the whole team one-on-five and couldn't finish a breakaway at clutch time in the post-season. Just like Vanek, we wouldn't have gotten where we did last year without Max, and I honestly hope that if we DO hold on to him, he continues to play as he did later in the regular season, and not as he did in the later rounds of the playoffs (0 G, 2 A, 2 PTS, -1 vs. CAR; 1 G, 1 A, 2 PTS, E vs. OTT) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I don't consider myself the "average fan who only looks at the 'G' column" but I can't say I would be overly sad to see him go, especially now when he has a pretty decent trade value. Most knowledgable Sabres fans have been pretty patient with Max, waiting for the proverbial light to come on, for his hands to catch up to his feet, for him to recognize that he has four other guys on the ice with him, and that they can score (and help him score.) He finally has the breakout regular season we've been waiting for, then completely regresses in the playoffs, going from a player who used his vision, speed and playmaking ability to rack up 51 helpers in the regular season, to a guy who tried to beat the whole team one-on-five and couldn't finish a breakaway at clutch time in the post-season. Just like Vanek, we wouldn't have gotten where we did last year without Max, and I honestly hope that if we DO hold on to him, he continues to play as he did later in the regular season, and not as he did in the later rounds of the playoffs (0 G, 2 A, 2 PTS, -1 vs. CAR; 1 G, 1 A, 2 PTS, E vs. OTT) Keep in mind we did lose Connolly in the Ottawa series. I think that really hurt Max's production a lot. The other line he works best with was not playing together. Vanek was in the press box, and Roy was playing with Drury and Grier. Not that I would really advocate playing Roy, Max and Vanek against Ottawa or Carolina, but just something to keep in mind. Indeed. My statement was somewhat tongue in cheek. There is good reason to expect substantially higher gate revenues, but $10 million is not gonna happen. All the more reason to view our offseason resulting from Tom G deciding that he's OK with not much better than break-even as his best-case-scenario. And, for the record, like Hopelessly, I of course wanted to keep the team together. After that season, with that likable of a group, how could I not? I simply object to the proposition that Tom G or any other owner is a bad guy or a cheapskate if he chooses not to have a payroll that almost certainly guarantees him multimillion dollar losses. I also believe that recurring losses of that ilk would result in only one possible outcome -- losing our team. Unlike other posters I find this unacceptable and would rather get by with a lower-payroll team, knowing that this would likely result in a continuous stream of free agent losses. It certainly seems as if Tom has either decided (i) he enjoyed last year so much that he doesn't care about the risk of big losses, at least not for this year or (ii) even at a $40 million payroll level, the team can more or less break even due to increases in revenues. I think (ii) is much more likely and if so this would jibe with my understanding of PAFan's and APus' view -- ie if you build it they will come. So, gentlemen, I will gladly admit that you were right. It looks as though an extremely smart and successful businessman agrees with you, and that this sharing of views, if it extends to locking up Briere and Drury, and if the people do indeed fill up the building, watch the games on TV, support the sponsors, buy the merchandise, etc., will lead to our guys staying together for multiple future shots at glory. Does anyone know average attendance and average ticket price from last year? How long until we beat those CSs in Raleigh on opening night? I still don't think they were right. Their position was that we should spend whatever is necessary to keep McKee in Buffalo even if it meant overpaying him. EDIT: Additionally, their position advocating whatever is necessary for each player, rather than what is reasonable to keep the core and have good depth. While most of the contracts this year have been pretty reasonable, I think their position looks more like the New Jersey Devils model of doing business. Big contracts for big names at the cost of depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I don't disagree that he was missing Connolly and Vanek, but his play against Ottawa & Carolina was a complete regression - he stopped looking to pass, and when he did, it was an ill-advised (to put it mildly) blind drop pass inside the opponents' blueline or a "circle the net, send it cross ice to the other teams' defenseman" type of pass. And I still can't forgive him for not embarassing Cam Ward on the breakaway at the end of Game 5.... :angry: I still don't think they were right. Their position was that we should spend whatever is necessary to keep McKee in Buffalo even if it meant overpaying him. I agree - I won't admit some of the others were right either, since some were advocating TG dip into his own pocket to keep the ENTIRE team together, no matter what the cost or how it affected the rest of the team's salary structure. BTW, now that Darcy & the Sabres are well on their way to bringing back most of the team, with long(er) term contracts of decent value, how strange are Grier's comments about the direction of the team? (Assuming we get Ryan & Dmitri locked up.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Done Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Maybe Daddy Warbucks truly is caught up in Sabres fever, but I'll believe when I see the opening day roster. I think that is the signal we have been given. People with real FU money like Golisano don't mind taking a shot at something if they enjoy the ride. An extra $6 million in payroll becomes a writeoff if things don't work out. Yes the Sabres are a business, but to Golisano they are a hobby. That is the perfect spot to be in if you are a fan along for the ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I think that is the signal we have been given. People with real FU money like Golisano don't mind taking a shot at something if they enjoy the ride. An extra $6 million in payroll becomes a writeoff if things don't work out. Yes the Sabres are a business, but to Golisano they are a hobby. That is the perfect spot to be in if you are a fan along for the ride. I am not giving him a free pass for the playoffs either. Hopefully it was due to not having the right linemates, and not a bigger problem. I guess we will find out in October. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I hope so too - like I said, I have been waiting (just like everyone else) for Max to become the player we all hoped he would be, and to see him play so well in the regular season gave me hope that he was finally figuring it out. Maybe it was the playoff pressure, the loss of his linemates, whatever - hopefully he rebounds strong this fall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 I hope so too - like I said, I have been waiting (just like everyone else) for Max to become the player we all hoped he would be, and to see him play so well in the regular season gave me hope that he was finally figuring it out. Maybe it was the playoff pressure, the loss of his linemates, whatever - hopefully he rebounds strong this fall... Max is only 26. yes, he had a crappy playoffs, but it was his first playoffs as a regular contributor. Also, our entire offense, not just Max, seized up after 7-6. It's worth remembering that at that point not only did we lose Connolly (who was having a great playoffs and being talked about as a Conn Smythe candidate) but we were playing the #2 and #3 best teams in the league. He's only 26 and he had more assists last year than any Sabre since Lafontaine. He's thrilling to watch. He threw himself headfirst in front of a slapper from the point vs. Carolina. He goes into the corners and digs it out. He pays the price in front of the net and doesn't take any crap from anyone, regardless of size. He comes flying in if one of his teammates is being pushed around. He got a good contract but he didn't try to gouge the last possible dollar out of the arbitration/FA process. He's turning into a full-blown star. He's going to have a much better playoffs next year. I am effing thrilled that we locked him up for 3 years. Go Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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