gregkash Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Martin Biron Maxim Afinogenov to Edmonton for Pronger This would mean we don't resign McKee for sure though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I'll bite - I don't think its feasible. We'd be taking on too much salary (between $4-5 million?), and Edmonton likely doesn't have a need for another goalie (assuming they re-sign Roloson.) I think Pronger is around $7-8M, while giving up Marty & Max relieves us of about $3 - 3.5M (not completely sure about the salary #'s - it is waaaaay too early this morning to be looking up contracts & salaries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 6.25. It would be a great deal for Buffalo, but Edmonton probably wouldn't go for it, even though they need a dynamic offensive player. And even though small-market Edmonton could afford him, and his presence did not doom the Oilers (as many would say signing him would doom the Sabres to failure), the Sabres would never make a bold move like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 the Sabres would never make a bold move like that. In order to make a bold move like that wouldn't the other team have to go along with it? I don't see Edmonton or anyone really making that deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fushetti Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 In order to make a bold move like that wouldn't the other team have to go along with it? I don't see Edmonton or anyone really making that deal. Why wouldn't Edmonton take that deal? They are going to need a goaltender who (at 2 mil) is relatively cheap and Max is a good offensive player. Do you really think Roloson is going to sign for less than what Biron makes? I don't With the loss of McKee, Max, and Marty, Pronger's price tag would be as much(or less) than the salaries of those three if they stayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Why wouldn't Edmonton take that deal? They are going to need a goaltender who (at 2 mil) is relatively cheap and Max is a good offensive player. Do you really think Roloson is going to sign for less than what Biron makes? I don't With the loss of McKee, Max, and Marty, Pronger's price tag would be as much(or less) than the salaries of those three if they stayed. I am looking at it from Edmonton's point of view. I am willing to bet teams are willing to offer more for Pronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Thanks for the salary check, PA. I was waaaaaay too tired to go looking for salary info this morning. Anyway I agree it would be a bold move, but I think Edmonton is going to try to re-sign Roloson first. As for the "dynamic offensive player" theory - I think Hemsky is on pace to be just as exciting and dynamic as Afinogenov - so if they want to throw him in with Pronger, I wouldn't say no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Thanks for the salary check, PA. I was waaaaaay too tired to go looking for salary info this morning. Anyway I agree it would be a bold move, but I think Edmonton is going to try to re-sign Roloson first. As for the "dynamic offensive player" theory - I think Hemsky is on pace to be just as exciting and dynamic as Afinogenov - so if they want to throw him in with Pronger, I wouldn't say no... I wouldn't be shocked to see Edmonton look elsewhere for a goaltender. Roloson is going to be turning 37 at the start of the season and will be coming off a knee injury. Throw in his status as an UFA and his return to Edmonton is anything but certain. The timing of the injury was doubly bad for Rollie, as he not only lost his opportunity to compete for the SC (and the Conn Smythe), but he is now damaged goods heading into what would have been the off-season to bring him big $'s. At his age, he won't get many more opportunities at either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I'm basically just formulating this on a couple of rumors, mainly. a.) Pronger wants a trade b.) we're shopping Afinogenov. and then the not so much a rumor as pure fact c.) Biron wants (and deserves) a trade d.) We're looking into a big name Defensman Pronger's Salary is 6.25mil, I believe.. Biron is at 2.1 and I think Max is around 1.5 So yes we'd be taking on way more Salary, but it's not like Pronger isn't worth it. It isn't a case of inflated Salary syndrome the dude plays almost 40 minutes a night, quarterbacks the power play and has a shot that John Wayne would be proud of. I would imagine, if Pronger (or another big name defensman), we won't sign McKee, and we we will be cutting the fat (ANDREW PETERS DAMMIT) in Training Camp. I'm no GM or anything though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I never saw any follow-up - why is it Pronger wants out of Edmonton? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I never saw any follow-up - why is it Pronger wants out of Edmonton? He wants out b/c his wife can't stand it there. And this is another reason why this deal ain't gonna happen for Buffalo. GregKash -- Pronger wanting a trade has been confirmed as fact. I haven't heard ANYTHING, rumors or otherwise, suggesting that the sabres are shopping Max -- other than a bunch of posters on this board suggesting we should trade him. I'll repeat what I've said on this a bunch of times: we are not trading Max. However, I will qualify this to say that if there is a deal where we end up with a true star like Pronger, we would trade him. But not for anything less than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Jay McKee is too expensive for this team, and they are going to get Pronger????? Keep dreaming. By a big name defencemen, they mean one that will play for 1-1.5 million, thats about as big of a deal Darcy is going to make. Remember, we can't sign someone with a huge contract cause then we can't roll 4 lines with 6 defencemen and we will be doomed to failure and the team will move to Portland, Thats why Darcy is packing McKee's bags as we speak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Jay McKee is too expensive for this team, and they are going to get Pronger????? Keep dreaming. By a big name defencemen, they mean one that will play for 1-1.5 million, thats about as big of a deal Darcy is going to make. Remember, we can't sign someone with a huge contract cause then we can't roll 4 lines with 6 defencemen and we will be doomed to failure and the team will move to Portland, Thats why Darcy is packing McKee's bags as we speak Are you related to ToddKaz? Sure starting to seem like it. No one said we can't afford McKee, but we might not be able to afford him if someone is going to sign him for more than he's worth. We don't know what his market value is right now. We're talking about being responsible with our money, and Pronger would be a player worth his current salary. However, I think we would have to give up more than Biron and Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Why wouldn't Mrs. Pronger like Buffalo?! Seriously, I think there has to be something more to the Pronger story than his wife not liking Edmonton. That seems fishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Don't know. but I do know that he'd look great in front of Ryan Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Why wouldn't Mrs. Pronger like Buffalo?! Seriously, I think there has to be something more to the Pronger story than his wife not liking Edmonton. That seems fishy. I think I read that his wife is from St. Louis and has spent her whole life there. Just looking at a map -- Edmonton is closer to the NW territories and Alaska than it is to St. Louis. There are about 10 NHL teams (including the sabres!) within about 600 miles of St. Louis. Now, I don't think there is any way we trade for a $6.25 million player. But if we were going to do so, I wouldn't mind Pronger. If we subtract McKee at $1.6 million (I think), Max at $1.2 million (I think) and Marty at $2.2 million from last year's payroll, add back $1.2 million for cheap replacements for Max and Marty -- that's $4.8 million net towards Pronger -- only $1.5 million to go. If Darcy calls, tell him I've approved the deal. Go Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elcrusho Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Maybee they Meant a big NAME defenseman that has like 12 or 13 letters in his last name... heh? heh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frisky Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I don't think they would spend that much on just one guy. Doesn't seem like their MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Sorry, he makes more then Drury, isn't going to happen, Drury is our measuring stick, remember And no I'm not Toddkaz, I know he was an old poster on this board, but I don't even know the guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 nfreeman... hold on. Whoa there. Easy big fella. You would trade for Pronger if we could somehow cut $6.25 million somewhere else? But wouldn't Pronger's big salary throw everything else out of wack? At least I think that's the argument you've been making about paying McKee just half of what Pronger gets. (Or maybe I have you, jad and hopeles mixed up.) You know, if Tallinder was our number one defenseman, he's going to want 6.25 too, right? And Lydman... That's half of our payroll tied up with three defensemen! Oh, dear. Wouldn't that be an oogie mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopeleslyobvious Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 nfreeman... hold on. Whoa there. Easy big fella. You would trade for Pronger if we could somehow cut $6.25 million somewhere else? But wouldn't Pronger's big salary throw everything else out of wack? At least I think that's the argument you've been making about paying McKee just half of what Pronger gets. (Or maybe I have you, jad and hopeles mixed up.) You know, if Tallinder was our number one defenseman, he's going to want 6.25 too, right? And Lydman... That's half of our payroll tied up with three defensemen! Oh, dear. Wouldn't that be an oogie mess. I am amazed at the way someone can misrepresent one side of an argument. There is a difference between paying Chris Pronger a Chris Pronger like salary, and paying Jay McKee as Chris Pronger like salary. Just because we're not willing to pay more than a player is worth doesn't mean 1. We don't want him back. 2. We aren't willing to spend that much on a better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gregkash Posted June 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 I love Jay McKee and think he is valuable. But he's not Chris Pronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 And no where is anyone saying that McKee will want or get a Chris Pronger type Salary What PA and myself have been saying is that if signing McKee will throw everything out of whack and not allow us to get other players, what will 6.25 mil for Pronger do???? I would love to see both Pronger and McKee get signed with Buffalo, But if Buffalo believes that McKee's salary is going to throw off the entire structure of the team, what will happen to Pronger when he gets 2x what any other Sabre is making? Aren't they a team of lesser known hard working players who play as a team and have no Superstars? Isn't that going against the teams plan???? Isn't saying that signing McKee to a bigger deal will throw off the teams chemistry but signing Pronger won't being a bit hypocritical???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 OK, I've been called out. Here's my reasoning: 1. I think giving McKee $3+ million per year, which is what I think it will cost to keep him, would definitely screw up the salary structure. He's our 3rd or 4th best defenseman. Paying him that much would drive up everyone else's expectations/demands. 2. I don't think we are going to be active in the free agent market at the $4 million- $5 million level, for the same reason. The players that are available at that level are very good but aren't true franchise players. I don't think anyone here wants to bring in Bryan McCabe or for that matter Daniel Alfredsson, at $5 million per year. Again, if a good-but-not-franchise-type player gets that kind of cash, the bar goes way up for Drury, Briere, Miller, Tallinder, Connolly (that's right, apus, he's coming back strong next year), etc. 3. (here comes the doubletalk): However, if a guy like Pronger, who was the MVP of the league a few years ago, was a legit Conn Smythe candidate this year, played 35+ minutes per game throughout the playoffs, was great on the PP, PK and even strength, was an absolute rock of a leader and more or less put his team on his shoulders and carried them to game 7 of the finals should become available to us, at age 32 and at a contract that is only a net $1.5 million more per year than those we'd hypothetically be trading for him, with that contract locked in for four more years -- hell yes. I'd make that deal in a heartbeat. I'd make the same deal for: Ovechkin, Niedermayer, Staahl, maybe Chara and I don't know who else but not too many guys -- and only if the contracts were the same or better than Pronger's (ie same cost and same number of locked-in years). [EDIT: forgot to mention:] As far as the effect on team morale and others' salary demands: I think the other players would be pretty psyched to bring in a guy like Pronger. They would recognize that this is one of the biggest half-dozen stars in the league and wouldn't begrudge him the cash. They'd think that their chances of a cup just increased substantially -- and they'd have renewed faith that management/ownership are willing to do what it takes to get them there. If that's internally inconsistent, feel free to rip me. I'd be amazed if this really happened. Maybe I just got intoxicated by the impossible dream of Pronger. He was awesome in the playoffs this year. And it would certainly take the sting out of losing McKee, eh? Go Sabres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 28, 2006 Report Share Posted June 28, 2006 Hey, don't get me wrong, I really hope Connolley can come back stronger then ever, I just don't see it likely happening and its a shame. As for everything else, Yes pronger would only be a net of 1.5 million over what we hypothetically give up, but that would mean a replacement for Biron and Max would have to play for free cause you are now short those 2 players I would also like to see Ovechkin, Stahl (although because he played on Carolina it sickens me to say that), but not Niedermeyer (too old) or Chara (he doesn't impress me at all after watching him in the Buffalo Ottawa Series) And I don't see this team being psyched about bringing someone like him aboard because they have been working as a team and have believed in the "we are a team with no superstars" that to add a superstar like pronger would now cange that philosophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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